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An appeal for the mighty collective wisdom of Dakka here.....The first wargame I played was the old GW Epic Space Marine. Now some 30 years later, I'd like to play something that has a similar feel, but works in a (I hesitate to say realistic) Cold War Gone Hot scenario.

So, prerequisites would be: 1) 1 model/stand = 1 tank/squad, 2)works for 6mm scale, 3) forces sized for companies (eg an infantry company, a tank company or two) plus support, probably with a points system to help pick forces 4) allows use of helicopters & air support as well as tanks and arty.

I played epic for probably more than a decade, so my memory conflates the different versions together I expect into something that the individual editions weren't, but on the whole I remember it being easy to learn and fun......so what rulesets that exist nowadays are likely to fit this list?

Cold War Commander would work pretty well.

Some people in my gaming group have been experimenting with Team Yankee in 6mm and it works pretty well. Based off Flames of War which was similar enough to Epic Armageddon.

Cold War Commander is directly based on Warmaster as opposed to Epic 40k. But it does provide a very satisfying experience and should feel familiar to an Epic player.

The rules where acquired by Pendraken last year so a new edition is probably in the works. But the original one is still available through Lulu.

I barely recall what old school Epic was like but I have heard good things about A Fistful of TOWS.

I actually am not a fan of Cold War Commander as i do not find the Warmaster orders system to mesh well with Modern C&C.... but your tastes may vary.

A Fistful of TOWs might actually feel more like Space Marine than Cold War Commander.

The full size rulebook is a monster but there are a few free preview files that can give an introductory game.

http://fft3.com/

Thanks all - that info seems to cover what I'd researched - either FFOT3, CWC, Team Yankee, or perhaps Battlegroup Northag. Only questions I have are that on looking at both FFOT3 and CWC, they are designed for "1 stand = 1 platoon" rather than squads (so the figs don't represent individuals.) Do either of these actually have different rules to make them "stand=squad" or do they just change the force lists/OOB to make it so? (I think I'm asking - if the game mechanics are designed to portray stands=platoons, do they just handwave portraying squads as being the same, or are there actual changes to reflect the difference in scale?)

From FFOT3 section 26

26: Gaming at 1:1
Many players prefer playing FFT3 at 1:1 scale rather than 1:5 scale. Here are some guidelines to convert it into a 1:1 game:

• The scale is 1 stand equals one vehicle or one infantry squad.

• Organize stands into platoons (Western forces) and companies (Soviet/Third World) and artillery batteries (4 to 6 guns).

• If you wish to enforce realistic tactical spacings between stands, halve the cohesion distances. If you wish to avoid a painfully cluttered battlefield, keep cohesion distances the same, or double the ground scale so 1˝ = 50 meters (and double the move ratings, weapon ranges, and spotting distances).

• For infantry, break each platoon out into 3 squads. If the platoons have a missile for their MAW, then make 1 squad a Missile Team and the give rest LAWs. For simplicity assume that the platoon’s heavy weapons are split up among the squads and just use the normal anti-infantry ratings.

• For western armies, keep all platoons of a company within 4˝ of another platoon of the same company. For Soviet/Third World armies, keep all companies of a battalion within 4˝ of another company of the same battalion. Use the other normal cohesion rules for this “super-cohesion”.

• Pay attention to the ROF on infantry anti-tank guns and rocket launchers (not ATGMs), including vehicle-mounted anti-tank rifles. Sometimes they were issued on a scale of 1 weapon per platoon, in which case their ROF was reduced from 3 to 1 (or from 2 to 1) in the data listing for that stand. If gaming at 1:1, increase the ROF back to the normal value for that weapon, but make sure only 1 stand or team in the platoon has the weapon.




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For 6mm, I'm not sure you need to change the ground scale. The clutter only really becomes an issue when you are using large stands of 15mm or 20mm figures.

Also, represent smaller forces when you break up the platoons into squads. Otherwise you'll be tripling or more the number of stands or vehicles on the table and you'll get the clutter look of too many models even with 6mm.


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Another option to check out is TAC II, a free update of an old set of rules called Tacforce or something.

https://tac2game.wordpress.com/

They are different than a lot of games, but they work. The use these cross reference tables that really isn't anything like Epic/Space Marine, but I still think they're worth considering. They may actually scratch the itch as they are an 80s game design even if they do things in a unique way.

Thanks for taking the time to post that - much appreciated! I've picked up TY but not played it, and from the comments I've read I think I might just not bother - as well as it needing at least two more books for it to make a proper GFSG vs BAOR game. One other game I've heard of is Sabre Squadron, but it looks pricey for the rules plus lists, and the forums suggest that you need to mod the rules to get any differentiation in tanks despite the tons of stats (so a T64 or T80BV vs a Chieftan or Challenger end up with the same dice rolls to kill each other despite being costed with different values.) - Need to look into that more to validate it though.

 eddieazrael wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to post that - much appreciated! I've picked up TY but not played it, and from the comments I've read I think I might just not bother - as well as it needing at least two more books for it to make a proper GFSG vs BAOR game.

Maybe.

Battlefront bundles the figures as units. And each unit comes with cards that gives you the information that you need to use the unit in lists and the game. So in theory, you could buy the Battlefront figures and be ready to go without getting anything beyond the basic rule book. Note, however, that I don't know of anyone who's tried that. So it's possible that there's a problem with the idea that isn't obvious until you try to do it.

Eumerin wrote:

 eddieazrael wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to post that - much appreciated! I've picked up TY but not played it, and from the comments I've read I think I might just not bother - as well as it needing at least two more books for it to make a proper GFSG vs BAOR game.

Maybe.

Battlefront bundles the figures as units. And each unit comes with cards that gives you the information that you need to use the unit in lists and the game. So in theory, you could buy the Battlefront figures and be ready to go without getting anything beyond the basic rule book. Note, however, that I don't know of anyone who's tried that. So it's possible that there's a problem with the idea that isn't obvious until you try to do it.

If you choose to source your minis outside of Battlefront (especially if you go to 6mm), this isn't an option and you're stuck waiting for the rest of the forces to be released. That said, the games I've seen in 6mm have been pretty good. You keep the weapons ranges/movement rates the same, you just have a lot more space to spread out in. It feels less like you're in a knife fight.

Well, I have the basic book, but planed to use T64A and T64BV - neither of which are in the book, and for which I'd be hoping the models would be released - also, I'd be playing in 6mm, so would need to get the data from the net. (Or the next book - I see that BRDM2s are available for Soviets, but there is no info on how they are integrated into the force org from the cards.)


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In other news - I see that Pendraken have an 'end 2017' date for CWC2 - I can probably hold off till then and see what's on offer.

Red Thunder, the big Soviet book, is expected out in June (after the Flames of War v4 rollout). It will include a lot more Soviet gear above and beyond what's in the core rulebook. We don't know for certain what will be in it yet (aside from the stuff that the East Germans also get, like the BRDM). But there's a pretty good chance that the T-64A will be included.

The T-64 BV probably won't be included, though. Team Yankee is set in 1985. A little digging suggests that the T-64BV was still in testing that year, and presumably started showing up in units in '86 or '87.

If Red Thunder does indeed arrive in June, then we'll start to see the previews for it in April or May (May on the official website, April if Battlefront lets fan sites see the product beforehand).