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I alternate between two stores, about 10 minutes apart. Store A and B we'll call them. Started the hobby at store A 4 or 5 years ago I think. Owner had the store since the 90s, is the only person that runs the shop, so only open from 1 to 9. Bought most of my early stuff from them outside of a few things. Was really into painting, and they were DA, so I'd easily have whatever I bought painted within 2 weeks, and wasn't buying at a crazy pace so always played with painted models. I knew the owner liked painted models, and everyone there plays with painted models, but I definitely was just painting because I wanted to, not because I felt I had to. About a year later I also started going to store B, they had a decent bit more players and held a lot of events, and they're open until 2 a.m. or later on Fridays instead of 9 p.m. They function a lot more like a club (including an optional membership with benefits), and there's a couple owners that all hang out there at different times. Regardless, had a lot of friends from both stores that I'd play with. Do keep in mind that for the most part everyone goes to one store or the other, but I won't get into that because it's a mess that'd take 10 pages to explain. Although I'll touch on it later.

I forget how long ago it was now, but I took about a year long break from 40k. I think over a year ago actually? When I came back into the hobby, it was with a new job and new hours, noon to 8:30, as well as a new army, an entire guard army that I got all at once (and unfortunately not from either of the stores, since I didn't pay cash for any of it). Meaning that store A was out of the question, since my days off were Mon-Tues (with occasional weekend which I always arraged to line up with tournies at B). Started going every week or two to store B after I got off work, playing Friday nights (or going to the bar, or better yet doing both). Really get along with one of the owners, he would let me into the store on Mondays (normally closed) to play against him. Note here that I have not been painting much. Was excited to use it so spent a month assembling everything, but very slowly trickle out painting, mostly doing big stuff and characters. Barely any of my ~150 guardsmen are painted, most just white primed, outside of special weapons that I want to stand out and my kill team. This was always fine at store B, as a lot of people there have unpainted stuff. A handful are just guys that don't paint, some paint at a normal pace but own like 6 armies, and a couple are extremely good painters but takes them a long time to do it all. No one would ever complain about unpainted, although it is encouraged by most of them.

About 2 months ago my days off were changed to Thurs-Fri, opening up plenty of time for Friday 40k. At first I just started going to store B earlier so I'd have more time at the bar, but decided to stop by store A to see how things were going there, catch up with some people. Was asked if I wanted to get a game in, said sure, let me grab my guard out of the car. I start unloading the boxes and get a "oh" from my opponent. Is something wrong? "I didn't know they weren't painted." Oh, is that a problem? I don't have my DA with me, but if you don't want to play that's fine (I know some people are like that). "No, it's fine, I guess..." He seems kind of, idk, uncomfortable about it?

Set up all my stuff, start our game, about half an hour in store owner comes over after finishing whatever he had been doing. Stares very intently at my army. He says a couple things about them being unpainted, I explain how I ended up getting them and that I don't want to rush through a load of guardsmen, but he seems very unhappy about it. Says maybe I should bring my DA if I want to play there, that he doesn't want me using unpainted. Not an outright ban from using them, just that he strongly recommends I use painted. Kind of makes me feel like there'll be an "accident" in the parking lot if I don't

I know about half of you are going to be on his side, but why is that? Am I supposed to hold off playing with my new toys for a year after I buy them? Painting is supposed to be fun, and at this point in time it is not fun for me, and as such I really don't want to trudge through it and come to hate painting. Would you prefer I angrily slop paint on them? I get that they look cool when they're well done, but is it wrong for me to just want to throw some dice before I finish them? I'd obviously bring my DA if you want to record it or something, but for a casual pickup game?

And so now I do see why a lot of people don't play at store A. There are plenty of other reasons (this guy doesn't like that guy, and issues with one owner or the other, and that B holds events when A rarely does), but I'm pretty sure painted has to be one of them. Do I keep playing there with them and just ignore the displeasure of the owner? Stop going there and stick with B? I don't really feel like using my DA on their own, as that's partially why I took a break (totally not traitors marines vs yiff in hell marines vs sparkle in the sunlight marines vs spiritual liege marines...).

Or there's always the final option, just spend most of Friday at the bar....

 kingbobbito wrote:
I know about half of you are going to be on his side, but why is that?

Because 40k sucks as a game, and therefore a large part of my enjoyment is the aesthetic value of the models. Unpainted models look like and significantly damage that aesthetic value.

Am I supposed to hold off playing with my new toys for a year after I buy them?

If it takes you a year to paint a new unit then yes. Fortunately you have a different army you can use while you work on getting your new stuff up to an acceptable standard.

I'd say to completely ignore Peregrine there, first and foremost. Hobbies are not a job. It's about enjoyment. If you force yourself to paint a crap ton of units, you won't enjoy it and the quality will likely suffer greatly.

Secondly, it sounds like you should just stick to store B if Store A is going to give you issues. From the sounds of it they'll either keep treating you like you've pissed in their wheaties or perhaps even prevent you from playing your new army by denying you games.
Store B just sounds like a much better atmosphere to play and also sounds like it has better opportunities if you're into events.

You are 100% entitled to use unpainted models. Other people are 100% entitled to give preference to people who come with painted armies.

Why not use DA with a small number of Guard allies at Store A and gradually use more Guard as you get more painted? You could still use Guard at Store B.

 mmzero252 wrote:
It's about enjoyment.

And my enjoyment requires painted models. If you're willing to have a game with models that look like and can still enjoy it, great, but I'm not going to pretend that I find anything appealing about unpainted models.

 Peregrine wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:
It's about enjoyment.

And my enjoyment requires painted models. If you're willing to have a game with models that look like and can still enjoy it, great, but I'm not going to pretend that I find anything appealing about unpainted models.

Sounds like you'll fit right in with Store A along with the other people who feel you can dictate how other people enjoy THEIR hobby.

I don't really see what the issue is here. Nobody's seemingly being a prick about it, just one place has expressed a preference that you use painted models. If you don't want to use painted models, there's somewhere else you can go; if you want to play at store A, then you have another, painted, army you can use. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 Peregrine wrote:
If it takes you a year to paint a new unit then yes.

A unit is 150 guardsmen, 6 bullgryn, 10 scions, 2 chimeras, 8 rough riders (that need built), and the vendetta I'm getting next month ? I have several other hobbies, so I only paint a couple hours every week or two. 4 days a week I'm at the gym, I do a lot of pc gaming, a decent bit of time each day online, 40k once, board game nights, a night or two at the bar. Once the weather starts to warm up most of my spare time will be spent hiking or kayaking. Unlike some 40k is not my life, nor do I want it to be.

 mmzero252 wrote:
Sounds like you'll fit right in with Store A along with the other people who feel you can dictate how other people enjoy THEIR hobby.

I missed the part where I have any power to force anyone to paint anything. If you don't enjoy painting, fine, just don't expect to play against me. And don't expect me to pretend that your unpainted models are worthy of respect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kingbobbito wrote:
A unit is 150 guardsmen, 6 bullgryn, 10 scions, 2 chimeras, 8 rough riders (that need built), and the vendetta I'm getting next month ? I have several other hobbies, so I only paint a couple hours every week or two. 4 days a week I'm at the gym, I do a lot of pc gaming, a decent bit of time each day online, 40k once, board game nights, a night or two at the bar. Once the weather starts to warm up most of my spare time will be spent hiking or kayaking. Unlike some 40k is not my life, nor do I want it to be.

Why do you have to paint it all at once? You can paint single units and add them to your painted DA army, keeping a painted army at all times.

 Peregrine wrote:
And my enjoyment requires painted models. If you're willing to have a game with models that look like and can still enjoy it, great, but I'm not going to pretend that I find anything appealing about unpainted models.

Great for you. But why should the owner insist I use painted? He won't enjoy someone playing a game that he isn't even watching if I use unpainted? There are people there that are fine with unpainted, it's just a couple and the owner that insist upon it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why do you have to paint it all at once? You can paint single units and add them to your painted DA army, keeping a painted army at all times.

Because I don't find it enjoyable to run allies outside of 1850 or larger but I mostly play 1000.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
If it takes you a year to paint a new unit then yes.

A unit is 150 guardsmen, 6 bullgryn, 10 scions, 2 chimeras, 8 rough riders (that need built), and the vendetta I'm getting next month ? I have several other hobbies, so I only paint a couple hours every week or two. 4 days a week I'm at the gym, I do a lot of pc gaming, a decent bit of time each day online, 40k once, board game nights, a night or two at the bar. Once the weather starts to warm up most of my spare time will be spent hiking or kayaking. Unlike some 40k is not my life, nor do I want it to be.

I don't want to sound like I'm having a go here, but it seems a bit like you're expecting everyone to adjust their gaming preferences to accommodate you, rather than being at all willing to compromise. Which you're free to do, but you can't expect everyone's going to like it. As has already been discussed, there's several possible compromises (use your painted army at store A; gradually add Guard units to it as you paint them; go to store B if you want to play with your unpainted stuff). Yet you're kinda chucking your toys out of the pram because not everyone's cool with you doing exactly as you please, i.e. using an unpainted army in a shop where the convention, and preference, is for painted models.

I wouldn't go as far as to say you're in the wrong, as such, because it's not really a clear-cut moral issue, rather just a nuance of social interaction, but maybe you should just chill a bit about this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
And my enjoyment requires painted models. If you're willing to have a game with models that look like and can still enjoy it, great, but I'm not going to pretend that I find anything appealing about unpainted models.

Great for you. But why should the owner insist I use painted? He won't enjoy someone playing a game that he isn't even watching if I use unpainted? There are people there that are fine with unpainted, it's just a couple and the owner that insist upon it.

Ultimately, it boils down to "his shop, his rules". Don't like it? Then you don't have to go there.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why do you have to paint it all at once? You can paint single units and add them to your painted DA army, keeping a painted army at all times.

Because I don't find it enjoyable to run allies outside of 1850 or larger but I mostly play 1000.

I refer you to my previous comment in which I suggested you're maybe being a bit inflexible about this.

 Nazrak wrote:
I don't want to sound like I'm having a go here, but it seems a bit like you're expecting everyone to adjust their gaming preferences to accommodate you, rather than being at all willing to compromise. Which you're free to do, but you can't expect everyone's going to like it.

It really is just the owner that's bothering me. I don't mind if a player says they don't want to play because I have unpainted, it's just there are 2 people I talked to that said they're totally cool with unpainted and would rather play against guard than DA, but that can't happen because of the store owner. Why does it bother him that I use unpainted?

What really makes me sad is that store B has about 25 40k players while store A has 6, all but 1 using marines. I just don't want A to die out all together.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why do you have to paint it all at once? You can paint single units and add them to your painted DA army, keeping a painted army at all times.

Because I don't find it enjoyable to run allies outside of 1850 or larger but I mostly play 1000.

Okay, so YOU don't find doing that enjoyable. Tell me, how is that any different to Store A's opinion? The guys at Store A don't find it enjoyable when you run unpainted plastic at them.
Either way, someone's enjoyment is stifled.

You don't like to paint, they don't like playing an unpainted army. No-one is more right than another. You are in full rights to do what you like with your models (although the "no time to paint" argument doesn't work - instead of going out and gaming with your models, spend a night in and paint a unit or so. Unless your issue with painting isn't time, and rather that you don't want to). They have full rights not to like it. Does that mean they can do anything about it? No - except the owner of store A. If they put in a rule of "no unpainted models", and they are fully obliged to, it's their store, then you will either have to paint them or not go into Store A.

The choice is yours. Store A doesn't have to change their policy, they own the store.
So, what matters more? Your enjoyment at the expense of others, or appeasing other people?

The guys I talked to that moved to B said 10 years ago he had about 30 or 40 regulars, but because of various rules he has laid out people keep leaving. It just makes me sad that his rules are killing his store.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
I don't want to sound like I'm having a go here, but it seems a bit like you're expecting everyone to adjust their gaming preferences to accommodate you, rather than being at all willing to compromise. Which you're free to do, but you can't expect everyone's going to like it.

It really is just the owner that's bothering me. I don't mind if a player says they don't want to play because I have unpainted, it's just there are 2 people I talked to that said they're totally cool with unpainted and would rather play against guard than DA, but that can't happen because of the store owner. Why does it bother him that I use unpainted?

What really makes me sad is that store B has about 25 40k players while store A has 6, all but 1 using marines. I just don't want A to die out all together.

Some people just prefer painted models and, ultimately, if that's the store owner's preference, then what he says goes.

As for the second part, maybe it's worth having a one-to-one chat with the owner and see if you can reach some kind of understanding – explain that, given the abundance of marine players, you'd prefer to use Guard, and maybe the other players would appreciate the variety. Maybe offer to work towards painting, say, one squad every couple of weeks (or whatever rate the two of you can agree on), until it's all done?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
He's not necessarily going to agree to it, but maybe if you demonstrate a willingness to compromise, he will too? Certainly can't hurt to try.

 kingbobbito wrote:
The guys I talked to that moved to B said 10 years ago he had about 30 or 40 regulars, but because of various rules he has laid out people keep leaving. It just makes me sad that his rules are killing his store.

If that's what he wants, leave him to it.

But he is the owner, and if you want to game in store A, you are more or less required to do so by his rules, or you don't go in there.

Something else that just occurred to me – if you find painting a bit of a chore, and don't have much time for it, have you considered farming the Guard army out to a commission painter?

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
I don't want to sound like I'm having a go here, but it seems a bit like you're expecting everyone to adjust their gaming preferences to accommodate you, rather than being at all willing to compromise. Which you're free to do, but you can't expect everyone's going to like it.

It really is just the owner that's bothering me. I don't mind if a player says they don't want to play because I have unpainted, it's just there are 2 people I talked to that said they're totally cool with unpainted and would rather play against guard than DA, but that can't happen because of the store owner. Why does it bother him that I use unpainted?

What really makes me sad is that store B has about 25 40k players while store A has 6, all but 1 using marines. I just don't want A to die out all together.

It sounds like A is losing it's player base because of the owner's attitude. I've heard a couple stories like this before and it was the same way with them. You at least have an alternative store close to go to otherwise.

Another option is to maybe try and get Store A to do some killteam games if you enjoy that game mode. You can play Guard while other people can jump in at a low entry cost/easy enough amount of units to fully paint. My local store held 3-4 killteam tournaments and the player turnout increased each time. It's also a good way for Store A to maybe get some variety in armies...unless the marine guys are literally only interested in marines.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why do you have to paint it all at once? You can paint single units and add them to your painted DA army, keeping a painted army at all times.

Because I don't find it enjoyable to run allies outside of 1850 or larger but I mostly play 1000.

Okay, so YOU don't find doing that enjoyable. Tell me, how is that any different to Store A's opinion? The guys at Store A don't find it enjoyable when you run unpainted plastic at them.
Either way, someone's enjoyment is stifled.

You don't like to paint, they don't like playing an unpainted army. No-one is more right than another. You are in full rights to do what you like with your models (although the "no time to paint" argument doesn't work - instead of going out and gaming with your models, spend a night in and paint a unit or so. Unless your issue with painting isn't time, and rather that you don't want to). They have full rights not to like it. Does that mean they can do anything about it? No - except the owner of store A. If they put in a rule of "no unpainted models", and they are fully obliged to, it's their store, then you will either have to paint them or not go into Store A.

The choice is yours. Store A doesn't have to change their policy, they own the store.
So, what matters more? Your enjoyment at the expense of others, or appeasing other people?

Again. 2 of 6 of the people at store A want me to use my guard. And I want to use my guard. Because marines vs marines vs marines vs marines is not fun. I am not forcing those 2 people to play my unpainted models. They want to. The owner is the only one preventing it. And they are thinking of abandoning store A so they can play against me. Is it really worth dropping down to four total players?

 kingbobbito wrote:
But why should the owner insist I use painted?

Because a major purpose of having in-store gaming is marketing. People come into the store for other things, see the game, and decide to buy it. A game between painted armies looks interesting and helps sell the product. A game with unpainted looks like and doesn't sell the product as well. And, as a nice bonus, requiring painted models as a general rule means less arguing about it for individual games. It's just the accepted standard that you paint your models before you bring them in.

 Peregrine wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:
But why should the owner insist I use painted?

Because a major purpose of having in-store gaming is marketing. People come into the store for other things, see the game, and decide to buy it. A game between painted armies looks interesting and helps sell the product. A game with unpainted looks like and doesn't sell the product as well.

No games going on sells even less

Sounds like the store should just pull warhammer products from the shelves because all the people are leaving.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why do you have to paint it all at once? You can paint single units and add them to your painted DA army, keeping a painted army at all times.

Because I don't find it enjoyable to run allies outside of 1850 or larger but I mostly play 1000.

Okay, so YOU don't find doing that enjoyable. Tell me, how is that any different to Store A's opinion? The guys at Store A don't find it enjoyable when you run unpainted plastic at them.
Either way, someone's enjoyment is stifled.

You don't like to paint, they don't like playing an unpainted army. No-one is more right than another. You are in full rights to do what you like with your models (although the "no time to paint" argument doesn't work - instead of going out and gaming with your models, spend a night in and paint a unit or so. Unless your issue with painting isn't time, and rather that you don't want to). They have full rights not to like it. Does that mean they can do anything about it? No - except the owner of store A. If they put in a rule of "no unpainted models", and they are fully obliged to, it's their store, then you will either have to paint them or not go into Store A.

The choice is yours. Store A doesn't have to change their policy, they own the store.
So, what matters more? Your enjoyment at the expense of others, or appeasing other people?

Again. 2 of 6 of the people at store A want me to use my guard. And I want to use my guard. Because marines vs marines vs marines vs marines is not fun. I am not forcing those 2 people to play my unpainted models. They want to. The owner is the only one preventing it. And they are thinking of abandoning store A so they can play against me. Is it really worth dropping down to four total players?

Again, maybe it's worth bringing this up with the store owner in question. He's certainly going to be more able to address your issues with his policy than a bunch of randos on the Internet. And remember, he's not inherently in the wrong here, it's very much just a difference of opinion, so if you can bring it up politely, and demonstrate that, while you don't hold the same viewpoint, you're respectful of his, then he's much more likely to hear you out.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why do you have to paint it all at once? You can paint single units and add them to your painted DA army, keeping a painted army at all times.

Because I don't find it enjoyable to run allies outside of 1850 or larger but I mostly play 1000.

Okay, so YOU don't find doing that enjoyable. Tell me, how is that any different to Store A's opinion? The guys at Store A don't find it enjoyable when you run unpainted plastic at them.
Either way, someone's enjoyment is stifled.

You don't like to paint, they don't like playing an unpainted army. No-one is more right than another. You are in full rights to do what you like with your models (although the "no time to paint" argument doesn't work - instead of going out and gaming with your models, spend a night in and paint a unit or so. Unless your issue with painting isn't time, and rather that you don't want to). They have full rights not to like it. Does that mean they can do anything about it? No - except the owner of store A. If they put in a rule of "no unpainted models", and they are fully obliged to, it's their store, then you will either have to paint them or not go into Store A.

The choice is yours. Store A doesn't have to change their policy, they own the store.
So, what matters more? Your enjoyment at the expense of others, or appeasing other people?

Again. 2 of 6 of the people at store A want me to use my guard. And I want to use my guard. Because marines vs marines vs marines vs marines is not fun. I am not forcing those 2 people to play my unpainted models. They want to. The owner is the only one preventing it. And they are thinking of abandoning store A so they can play against me. Is it really worth dropping down to four total players?

If Store A's rules say that you should use painted models, then them's the rules.
It's up to you if you want to follow them or not.

What matters more to you?
Playing a game with your guardsmen, and not compromising? Offending the store owner, who has all rights to remove you?
Keeping Store A afloat, even though it's own rules seem to be hurting it?
Compromising and painting your models instead of going in, then allowing you to play in store A without anyone leaving?

Dude, you have store B that allows your unpainted models, and there is Store B that prefers painted models.

Store A's owner has clearly cultivated a very different gaming community in his store, which he probably finds his customers prefer and which he probably prefers himself. I doubt he regards his store as just a business. With hours like 1-9pm, I'd imagine he regards it as business/hobby/lifestyle all rolled into one. Also, he is suggesting a strong preference, not insisting. If he sees your army becoming more painted rapidly, I'm sure he'll cut you some slack. Myself and others responded to your reasonably phrased initial post with sympathy and suggestions, but at the end of the day, if the owner doesn't want you to use unpainted models at his store, well, tough, go to store B. And if Peregrine and others only enjoy playing against painted armies, then tough, find other opponents.

For the record, I'll play against unpainted opponents. My own armies are rarely 100% painted, which disappoints me. But if I have a choice of playing against my mate Ian (Arbitorian from this forum - you all know how awesome his armies look) and my other friend or Dan's unpainted Admech, I'll probably prefer Ian. But I know Dan's Admech will be painted soon, so I won't throw my toys out of the pram if he offers a game with them.

 mmzero252 wrote:
It sounds like A is losing it's player base because of the owner's attitude. I've heard a couple stories like this before and it was the same way with them. You at least have an alternative store close to go to otherwise.

Another option is to maybe try and get Store A to do some killteam games if you enjoy that game mode. You can play Guard while other people can jump in at a low entry cost/easy enough amount of units to fully paint. My local store held 3-4 killteam tournaments and the player turnout increased each time. It's also a good way for Store A to maybe get some variety in armies...unless the marine guys are literally only interested in marines.

I tried to start a kill team league a while back to get players interested. Even though it earned him revenue since I got 4 new players started, he didn't want a league that people didn't have to pay for. Have to buy at least $15 worth of stuff every week if you want to play in it, even though these are brand new players who aren't familiar with the game or sure they want to invest much in the game. Didn't hurt me since I was building my army at the time, but after 3 weeks they had all quit. Instead of letting them learn the ropes and take their time, they were given an ultimatum of spend money or drop the game.

So I guess there are more reasons than this that I dislike owner of A.

 mmzero252 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:
But why should the owner insist I use painted?

Because a major purpose of having in-store gaming is marketing. People come into the store for other things, see the game, and decide to buy it. A game between painted armies looks interesting and helps sell the product. A game with unpainted looks like and doesn't sell the product as well.

No games going on sells even less

Sounds like the store should just pull warhammer products from the shelves because all the people are leaving.

The store owner can put whatever rule they want in. If they're getting enough income to hang in there, so be it.
They don't have to change unless they want to.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:
But why should the owner insist I use painted?

Because a major purpose of having in-store gaming is marketing. People come into the store for other things, see the game, and decide to buy it. A game between painted armies looks interesting and helps sell the product. A game with unpainted looks like and doesn't sell the product as well.

No games going on sells even less

Sounds like the store should just pull warhammer products from the shelves because all the people are leaving.

The store owner can put whatever rule they want in. If they're getting enough income to hang in there, so be it.
They don't have to change unless they want to.

I've got no issue with how the store runs things. It's just my opinion based on Bobbito's claim that he won't have any warhammer players soon. Maybe non-regulars, but my local store was already shrinking their stock down to nearly nothing before we brought a HUGE surge of players back. My local store just 7 months ago had maybe 1-2 regular players and had stopped all events because of it. They were about to stop carrying the game entirely because that amount of people couldn't make them a profit.

Again, no games going on means it will be hard for customers passing through to be exposed to the game. Painted or unpainted, no free marketing means less sales.

And here's another issue: if you're doing a good job of painting your models you're almost certainly doing it with unassembled parts since fully assembled models usually have areas that are impossible to reach and paint cleanly (guns held across the model's chest, vehicle interiors, etc). So unless you're willing to ruin your models before painting them those unpainted models are probably more like legs on bases, cardboard boxes with "Chimera" written on them, etc.

 Peregrine wrote:
And here's another issue: if you're doing a good job of painting your models you're almost certainly doing it with unassembled parts since fully assembled models usually have areas that are impossible to reach and paint cleanly (guns held across the model's chest, vehicle interiors, etc). So unless you're willing to ruin your models before painting them those unpainted models are probably more like legs on bases, cardboard boxes with "Chimera" written on them, etc.

I'm a big fan of painting units in parts so I can get all the nooks and crannies. But I've gotten extraordinarily good at blue tacking arms and heads onto infantry so you would never know. It's all just temporary until I finish painting them, but in a pinch (tournaments with 1 week notice), it works out well enough.

I have played against some armies that were fully assembled before painting that you couldn't even tell though. All depends on the painter.

 Peregrine wrote:
And here's another issue: if you're doing a good job of painting your models you're almost certainly doing it with unassembled parts since fully assembled models usually have areas that are impossible to reach and paint cleanly (guns held across the model's chest, vehicle interiors, etc). So unless you're willing to ruin your models before painting them those unpainted models are probably more like legs on bases, cardboard boxes with "Chimera" written on them, etc.

Not sure this is necessarily true – it's perfectly possible to paint all the IG models I've ever seen to a good standard without resorting to sub-assemblies.