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Made in gb
Missionary On A Mission






Me and a couple of the 40k crew are trying to get into Infinity, but we're struggling with the ARO mechanic and need some clarification. I can't register on the CB forums for some reason so I figure Dakka might know instead.

ARO must be declared when either an Entire Order action or the first Short skill of a Short-Short Order is declared. ARO can only be declared by models that have LoF to the Activated model carrying out the order, or if the model carrying out the order is in their ZoC (or if they have gear that bypasses the usual restrictions etc etc). To me, that suggests that a Reactive model which has no LoF/ ZoC to the Active model at the start of its Order can't declare ARO, even if the Active model ends its first Short skill/ Entire Order action in plain sight of the Reactive model. Is that correct? Would that mean any model carrying out an Entire Order action that began the Order outside of everyone's LoF/ ZoC would avoid triggering AROs?

To add further confusion - on the wiki, it says that Reactive models which did not have ARO to the first Short skill of a Short-Short Order can declare ARO against the second Short skill if the Active model's first Short skill puts them in a position to grant ARO to these other models. That seems to directly contradict the rulebook, which says that ARO must be declared in response to the first Short skill, can only be declared by eligible reactive models (that have LoF etc etc), and if it isn't declared at this point then the opportunity to do so is lost.

An example; a Celestial Guard is standing behind a wall in Full Cover from an HMG dude on the other side of it. The Celestial Guard declares a Move-Move, intending to walk around the obstacle. His first Move takes him to the edge of the obstacle and puts him in the HMG's LoF. My understanding would be that the Celestial Guard could make this move unmolested - the HMG has to declare his ARO at the start of the Order, but he couldn't because the conditions weren't met. However, according to the wiki, because the Celestial Guard is now in his LoF, he can ARO against the Guard's second Move action. Is this correct? If so how does that square with what the rulebook says about ARO declarations?

Also, while I'm here, how do D-Charges work? Are they just placed in a terrain piece, and automatically hit any models within the terrain when they're detonated?

Thanks!

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Made in gb
Camouflaged Ariadna Scout





Leeds, UK

 BBAP wrote:


To me, that suggests that a Reactive model which has no LoF/ ZoC to the Active model at the start of its Order can't declare ARO, even if the Active model ends its first Short skill/ Entire Order action in plain sight of the Reactive model. Is that correct? Would that mean any model carrying out an Entire Order action that began the Order outside of everyone's LoF/ ZoC would avoid triggering AROs?

To add further confusion - on the wiki, it says that Reactive models which did not have ARO to the first Short skill of a Short-Short Order can declare ARO against the second Short skill if the Active model's first Short skill puts them in a position to grant ARO to these other models. That seems to directly contradict the rulebook, which says that ARO must be declared in response to the first Short skill, can only be declared by eligible reactive models (that have LoF etc etc), and if it isn't declared at this point then the opportunity to do so is lost.

Thanks!


If an active model is moving using its first short skill it has to declare its start and end points of the move. Any reactive models that have an ARO after the first short skill have to declare their ARO's but can do so at any point along the active models movement. So as long as the active model is within LOF at some point during its move it will generate AROs.

If reactive models that didn't have an ARO to the first short skill then gain an ARO as a result of the second short skill, e.g. active model moving into LOF, they can declare an ARO after the second short skill is declared. So walking into LOF with your second short skill is bad!

And D charges only affect the target model/ scenery they don't have a template etc so don't affect other models.



Link to my Gallery. 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut



Aizuwakamatsu, Fukushima, Japan

Have a look at the common skills: Move section.
Part of declaring a move, is declaring the route and destination so other models can make AROs. If they see you at any point during the move, they are allowed to ARO. Also the Order Expenditure Sequence on pg 37 has a bit of a list you can follow.
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






 BBAP wrote:
To add further confusion - on the wiki, it says that Reactive models which did not have ARO to the first Short skill of a Short-Short Order can declare ARO against the second Short skill if the Active model's first Short skill puts them in a position to grant ARO to these other models. That seems to directly contradict the rulebook, which says that ARO must be declared in response to the first Short skill, can only be declared by eligible reactive models (that have LoF etc etc), and if it isn't declared at this point then the opportunity to do so is lost.


Page 30.
The Active Player must declare ARO's for all eligible troopers immediately after the Active Player declares his Entire Order or the first Short Skill of his order (see: Order Expenditure Sequence, page 31). Troopers that fail to do so lose their ARO against that Order. If, by declaring the second Short Skill of its Order, the active trooper gives ARO to enemy troopers that did not have ARO against the first Short Skill, then those enemy troopers can declare their AROs.

You declare your first Short Skill, including the movement path you are going to take. The opponent declares any AROs for models that could see your model at any point of that path. You declare your next Short Skill. If that is another move, you declare the second path you are taking. Any new enemy models that could see your model on the second path may declare their AROs.

With a few exceptions, models can not Idle their first ARO to see what you do next. So it's almost always left up to you to decide what your second Short Skill is to counter their ARO. If they don't shoot back and you declare a second move that takes you into LOS of new enemies, that's just bad play. If they see your first Short Skill and Idle in response, they can't do anything to your second Short Skill even if they have LoS, in general only new enemies that gain LoS can react to the second Short Skill. ARO's are in almost all cases a 'use it or lose it' situation.

Another confusing part is the next section on page 30 - All at Once. In Infinity Orders and AROs are all simultaneous regardless of the skills declared.

You declare a move, this takes you from one point of cover to another. Your opponent decides to shoot in ARO, and each model with LoS selects the point of your movement they shoot at you. Once you break cover, they can select to shoot you out of cover, regardless of where you started or ended up. If you shoot in reaction to this, you are still shooting from that point of having no cover. If they manage to KO you in that spot out of cover, you still complete your move and end up behind the next set of cover. This is still an ideal situation, as you end up behind the next bit of cover Prone, so a Doctor can more easily get to that KO'd model.

ARO timing is probably the most complicated part of the game. Once you get used to it it's very tactical, but for a while you're going to be scratching your head.

The best way I've seen to mark out movement and AROs when learning is to use washers. Place them along the path to the end of the movement, and when your opponent decides to shoot, they select where and move the model to that spot. Sort out your ARO, then continue the movement to the end.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/02/28 03:58:41


 
   
Made in gb
Missionary On A Mission






Thanks all. I think that's blown it open for me. Basically as long as the model comes into view at some point during their Order, they're eligible to be ARO'd. I assume the same would hold for Entire Order actions - for instance, if I Jump a dude onto some barrels, anyone with LoF to the top of the barrels would be able to shoot at him even though my model began his movement out of everyone's LoF. Does that sound about right?

Thanks again!

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







 BBAP wrote:
Thanks all. I think that's blown it open for me. Basically as long as the model comes into view at some point during their Order, they're eligible to be ARO'd. I assume the same would hold for Entire Order actions - for instance, if I Jump a dude onto some barrels, anyone with LoF to the top of the barrels would be able to shoot at him even though my model began his movement out of everyone's LoF. Does that sound about right?

Thanks again!


Like it says in the rules, the sequence for a two skill order is:
Activation: The Active Player declares which trooper will activate.
Order expenditure: The Active Player removes from the table, or otherwise marks as spent, the Order Marker he uses to activate the trooper.
Declaration of the First Skill: The Active Player declares the first Short Skill of the Order, or the Entire Order he wants to use. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and places the trooper at the final point of its movement.
Declaration of AROs: The Reactive Player checks which of her troopers can react against the activated trooper, and declares AROs for each of them. If a trooper can declare an ARO but fails to do so, the chance is lost. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and specifies where the trooper would be at the end of its movement.
Declaration of the Second Skill: The Active Player declares the second Short Skill of the Order, if applicable. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and places the trooper at the final point of its movement.
Declaration of AROs: The Reactive Player can check whether new AROs are available, and declare those. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and specifies where the trooper would be at the end of its movement.
Resolution: Players take measurements, determine MODs, and make Rolls.
Effects: Players apply all effects of successful Orders or AROs, and make ARM/BTS Rolls.
Conclusion: If necessary, players make Guts Rolls and apply their effects.


If you just declare one skill (an entire order skill or whatever), the sequence abbreviates down to:
Activation: The Active Player declares which trooper will activate.
Order expenditure: The Active Player removes from the table, or otherwise marks as spent, the Order Marker he uses to activate the trooper.
Declaration of the First Skill: The Active Player declares the first Short Skill of the Order, or the Entire Order he wants to use. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and places the trooper at the final point of its movement.
Declaration of AROs: The Reactive Player checks which of her troopers can react against the activated trooper, and declares AROs for each of them. If a trooper can declare an ARO but fails to do so, the chance is lost. If movements are declared, the player measures the movement distance and specifies where the trooper would be at the end of its movement.

Resolution: Players take measurements, determine MODs, and make Rolls.
Effects: Players apply all effects of successful Orders or AROs, and make ARM/BTS Rolls.
Conclusion: If necessary, players make Guts Rolls and apply their effects.


There's no difference between a Jump that starts and ends out of line of fire and a Move that starts and ends out of line of fire as far as the game mechanics are concerned. And if you look at the example in the Move skill, right there is an example of a model starting and ending out of line of fire and simultaneously shooting and getting shot at in the middle of the movement.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/01 07:32:43


 
   
 
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