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Hi everyone. I"m interested in starting some finns, and thinking about tank company (as I'm from Russia and can purchase Zvezda models for less than 2$ each)
However, they seem rather underpowered, with rather expensive KVs and T-34s, while T-26, T-28 and BT-42 are nigh useless in late war; somewhat lacking anti-tank options. Or they aren't?
How "powerful" are Panssari against other major powers? I'm really into winter and continuation wars, but don't want to be underdog in our tank clashes.

My brother plays Finns, and everyone hates on all of his T26s. The thing is, they hit hard at AP7, and even though have low armor, are hard to hit being Vets. They are surprisingly effective, at least in our early and mid war games, just difficult to use being so slow.

We don't play late war, so can't help much there. I would think that late war Russian captured tanks and German equipment or allies would be your go to for late war. The T34s might be expensive, but that's because they are fearless vets. That counts for a lot.

Late war they have major issues although fearless veteran T34/85s are extremely good.

In mid war they are much better as you can get a lot more done with T26s and T28s.

The biggest thing with mid-war finns is V4 and overhauling of points system, and we won't see finn lists for V4 until 2018 at least - so that's a drag. Also, before all all list for all nations will be available, all in my club will be playing late war.
For late, i'm thinking about platoons of T-34/76, T-34/85 and KV-1, supported with pioneers and artillery (which I may drop with the new artillery rules)
Also, how are BT-42? They seem rather controversial, being rather weak in direct fight, but with nifty 42" bombardments.

 Vexler wrote:
Also, how are BT-42? They seem rather controversial, being rather weak in direct fight, but with nifty 42" bombardments.

Unfortunately I can't comment on those. My brother just bought some, and has yet to play them.

Finns are great in the fact that the core army can be played early, mid, and late war, with some tweaks to support units. I would personally try and get some EW games it, it's fun!

 KillerAngel wrote:

 Vexler wrote:
Also, how are BT-42? They seem rather controversial, being rather weak in direct fight, but with nifty 42" bombardments.

Unfortunately I can't comment on those. My brother just bought some, and has yet to play them.

Finns are great in the fact that the core army can be played early, mid, and late war, with some tweaks to support units. I would personally try and get some EW games it, it's fun!

That and Finnish infantry (in Early and Mid) are just nasty, especially when fighting Soviets and doubly so if you're fighting on a winter table. I remember back when my group did an Eastern Front mid-war campaign. I was facing off against some Romanians while another Soviet player was fighting a Finnish infantry company with their special infantry character. I remember hear lots of cursing from the Soviet side that day.

Well, finn infantry being gut is quite a widespread fact, especially with option of being recce, but I'm now more interested in Panssarikonpanie and maybe Sturmikonpanie (but there's a problem that I can't squeeze everything I want into 1625 point list)

BT-42s are pretty terrible but they are fairly inexpensive so they had a use. I have no idea how they will perform under V4 though.

Finns have a lot of difficulty with heavy armour. Infantry have access to lots of panzerfausts and can generally just hide in shell scrapes but tanks have to rely on direct fire and artillery, neither of which is particular scary to a King Tiger.

They will do 'ok' against medium tanks and they will be fairly decent against infantry.

T26s are surprisingly good against infantry, even in late war, although they can be bailed by rifle fire...

I haven't played FoW in about 3 years though so I don't know what the game is like today and I have no idea what is changing in V4.

Finn Panssari is not a happy place to go in LW, though it does have its shining moments.

The T28 can be damn deceptive. No it doesn't have the main gun to duke it out, but it does have 5mg shots on the charge and Top Armor 2 along with turret rear machine guns...for 180 points. They are brutal units to counter attack infantry with due to the mg dice, top armor and turret rear guns, plus being vets.

The Lapin Sota lists are also a bright spot for Finn LW tanks. RV, so a price discount, and access to multiple units of T34/85 or PzIV Js. Plus a LW hero that can mitigate some of the risks associated with RV troops.

BT42 will get a boost in LW. I think their 4/4+ bombard goes to a 3/3+ but due to the changes in observers, you will be able to use an observer without needing a staff team in a different arty unit -and- not paying a penalty to be hit. I know I am thinking about taking them more often as they bring a mobile breakthrough gun to the Finnish army, even if it is only 16" and one shot.

Your best bet in LW Finn armor is not to take a LW Finn armor list and take an infantry force with armor assets. Absorb the first punch from your enemy onto your infantry then counter from the woods where you hid in safety with concealment and Vet ratings to pop out. Force your opponent to come over to your side of the table before you slap him in the face.

Lori Torni and the anti tank gun hero can help reduce the problems of lack of obvious anti armor choices as well.

Shotgun wrote:
Lori Torni and the anti tank gun hero can help reduce the problems of lack of obvious anti armor choices as well.

Does Törni really worth it? He cost a LOT, for those points I can make my whole Jääkäri platoon recon and take close-defence command team. All he does is 1 better motivation and counter-attack re-roll (which is useless against soviets anyway)
Lapin Sota seems rather interesting indeed with cheap Jääkärikomppania, which can take both 2 PaK40 platoons and 2 panssari platoons, however lack of intercepted communcations and KV-1 is quite disappointing.

In LW the list is pretty poor, the T34/85 are great, but too few. The KV is relatively solid, but poor offensive output, the rest are EW tanks trying to fight in LW. I do love the bt42, and agree it'll be better in V4.

Now EW pansarri from Barbarossa Digital is great! CT t26's are not amazing, but definitely not bad, you can get t28 or t34 as well! Also the arty in V4 will be more effective (and nice and cheap) and you get some good recce too!

Previous thoughts and AAR

http://www.breakthroughassault.co.uk/project-finland-epilogue-panassari/

http://www.breakthroughassault.co.uk/late-war-aar-panassari-vs-us-1s/

Thanks for all your replies. All in all, considering model availability at hand, I've come to three lists attached and don't really know which one is more "powerful" in all-tank meta (yep, literally everybody in my club play tank companies)

Will you be playing v4? If so, the artillery will be a tough sell against exclusively tank companies.

I don't really like any of those lists to be honest but then the options are limited for Panssari.

I would probably take the 2nd list but replace the StuGs with a horde of T-26s.

Except you can't replace the StuGs with T-26s since they are not the same slot.

No but you could take extra Panssari platoons. Up to 5 IIRC.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
No but you could take extra Panssari platoons. Up to 5 IIRC.

Only 3 panssari platoons among the combat platoons, sadly, in which I maximize on best tanks available.

Well its been a while. I still wouldn't take the StuGs though.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
Well its been a while. I still wouldn't take the StuGs though.

What's the deal with them??

 Vexler wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
Well its been a while. I still wouldn't take the StuGs though.

What's the deal with them??

I think it's because for the points, you can get 4 T-34/85, 3 T-34/76, 2 KV-1E and 1 T-26 comes out to somewhere around 100 points less than 10 StuGs. The 34/85s have slightly better AT and while the 34/76 and KV1s have slightly worse AT so it's about a wash. The T-34s have about the same survivabliity while the KVs are slightly better off. On paper, the combination of better guns, better armor for less points (which means more points elsewhere) seems like a winner.

True for Stu 40 G, but comparing 4 T-34/85, 3 T-34/76, 2 KV-1E and 1 T-26 with 10 Stu 40 G - the latter are more homogeneous with all around AT11 instead of a 4/5 mix of AT12/9, which is a thing for our meta of mostly panthers and IS-2 with odd shermans.
As for stanalone platoon of StuGs - it's not so dire, IMHO.

 Vexler wrote:
which is a thing for our meta of mostly panthers and IS-2 with odd shermans.

Don't take Finnish armour in such a meta, you won't find it enjoyable.

I wouldn't take the StuGs because they don't add a huge amount to the army and they are an allied platoon. I would prefer to take more infantry (including a tank hunter platoon if you have the option). In fact I would just go infantry+armour as that works a lot better for Finns.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
Don't take Finnish armour in such a meta, you won't find it enjoyable.

Well, nobody said it would be easy.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
I wouldn't take the StuGs because they don't add a huge amount to the army and they are an allied platoon. I would prefer to take more infantry (including a tank hunter platoon if you have the option).

Maybe taking heavy artillery platoon instead of StuGs would also help?