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Made in us
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle





Eye of Terror

So out of the whole Warmahordes I like Cryx the most. Are they good? Should I keep everything in their battlegroup box? What should I know about them? What do they play like?

"Show me where it says that in the codex!" said Learchus.
"You know brother that I cannot." said Uriel.
 NenkotaMoon wrote:
AoS raped our cattle and stampeded our women.
 
   
Made in us
Rebel_Princess





The internet will tell you mk3 killed Cryx. This is false. In the last edition they literally took zero skill to play. Now they have poor internal balance but can put out some very competitive lists.

Unless you're playing at the highest level, the relative power level of the faction shouldn't come into play. There is a learning curve to the game, so expect to get stomped for your first dozen games no matter which faction you choose.

Cryx are a glass cannon faction. Their warjacks are fast, not too durable and not inherently heavy hitting. Do not be fooled by this. You have access to fast, high defense arc nodes, which are arcane relays that allow you to extend your magical reach across the table, and into nooks and crannies. You will find yourself using this to inflict debuffs and other dastardly mechanics upon your foes, which will make it hard for them to hurt your units, or make them less durable (making it so that your jacks and troops hit harder).

Cryx also has access to strong recursion mechanics, stealth, elite troops, and great utility/scalpel solos. Don't quote me, but it seems the only playstyle they can't really excel in is gunlines.

Hope this helps. Good luck!
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

I have played Cryx in mk2 and it has been a very satisfactory faction.
In mk3 the Cryx infantry got nerved up to Satyxis Raiders. The heavy jacks have never been on par with those of other factions. Frankly I would stay away from Cryx atm.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in ca
Alguacile Paramedic






 MrVulcanator wrote:
So out of the whole Warmahordes I like Cryx the most. Are they good? Should I keep everything in their battlegroup box? What should I know about them? What do they play like?


Cryx has extremely poor internal balance at the moment and playing into gunlines will be a lesson in frustation. If you're really set in playing them, do it. Otherwise, wait until they get worked on. Are they good? That's subjective. They can be a lot of fun to play but have some terrible match ups. If unappologetically evil, undead pirates are your thing then by all means hop on board. They certainly aren't the boogieman they used to be in previous editions.

Battlebox:
The battlebox jacks are all good and you'll find a lot of use for them in a number of different lists. Of all the models in the box, Agathea is the one that you might end up ditching first. She's an okay caster, but far from the best Cryx has to offer.

Playstyle:
The factions playstyle is hitting first and relying on debuffs to help with damage output. Cryx is a faction that isn't worried about buffing it's own troops or even keeping them alive.
Arcnodes are the bread and butter of Cryx and will go a long way to keep your casters safe and to assassinate the enemy with.
Pretty much everthing in the faction is fragile and dies to a stiff wind. Fortunately, many things are cheap (point wise) and bringing undead models back is a staple. Unfortunately, the undead models are currently lacking. Outside of jacks, living models will see more play than the undead ones most of the time unless you're playing the theme list.

Most to all of your lists will have Satyxis Raiders with the Sea Witch UA (which is mandatory for the unit). Other units like Mechanithralls, are basically never takes. The same can be said for the casters.A few are great, many are not. Comparitively the jacks fall apart to a stiff breeze, even the expensive character jacks. The trade off is slightly improved speed and higher than average DEF stats.

Cryx is also a faction where you shouldn't be worried about sacrificing your own guys. Pretty much everything is expendable in the pursuit of victory. The only thing that matters is the caster [and the arc nodes].



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/07 09:14:51


 
   
Made in us
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle





Eye of Terror

I'm probably going to play Cryx anyway simply because I like their models the most.

"Show me where it says that in the codex!" said Learchus.
"You know brother that I cannot." said Uriel.
 NenkotaMoon wrote:
AoS raped our cattle and stampeded our women.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

 the_ampersand_man wrote:

Cryx is also a faction where you shouldn't be worried about sacrificing your own guys. Pretty much everything is expendable in the pursuit of victory. The only thing that matters is the caster [and the arc nodes].


Good summation of Cryx, but this line got me wondering. Aren't all the factions in WM/H like that?

Cryx has recursion mechanics so bringing back dead troops is something that can be worked into a list strategy, but I never saw any other factions being precious with their troops or 'jacks/beasts. Everyone seems to happily charge towards the middle of the board and die.


 MrVulcanator wrote:
I'm probably going to play Cryx anyway simply because I like their models the most.


That is the best reason to start a faction regardless of game! Rule of cool forever!
   
Made in ca
Alguacile Paramedic






 MrVulcanator wrote:
I'm probably going to play Cryx anyway simply because I like their models the most.


That reason is as valid as any other. Welcome aboard.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
 the_ampersand_man wrote:

Cryx is also a faction where you shouldn't be worried about sacrificing your own guys. Pretty much everything is expendable in the pursuit of victory. The only thing that matters is the caster [and the arc nodes].


Good summation of Cryx, but this line got me wondering. Aren't all the factions in WM/H like that?

Cryx has recursion mechanics so bringing back dead troops is something that can be worked into a list strategy, but I never saw any other factions being precious with their troops or 'jacks/beasts. Everyone seems to happily charge towards the middle of the board and die.


To an extent yes, I guess they all are; however, each faction piece trades in a different way and they rely on different units to attain victory. In my experience Cryx relies a lot more on their casters doing the heavy lifting as opposed to say buffing/supporting key pieces that do the work. Added to that Cryx units/models are compaitively fragile across the faction. Cryx can, and will lose models quite easily and for new players is can be disheartening to see a lot of their models vanish from the table without seeming to accomplish much. Cryx, outside of a couple of recursion lists, cannot attrition. The key to Cryx is to look at the bigger picture and accept that you will lose a lot of stuff along the way and to be prepared for it. My quoted point was more a half-baked "heads-up" of what to expect going in.

As an example, the last game I played, Skarre1 vs Borka2. By the end of the game I had 6 models including my caster. I in turn killed maybe 25% of my opponents army and still won the game on assassination. In the past I might have forfitted thinking I had no chance, at one point my opponent even asked me if I wanted to, Experience has taught me I can win without most of my army and to push through.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/09 02:13:38


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

 the_ampersand_man wrote:


 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
 the_ampersand_man wrote:

Cryx is also a faction where you shouldn't be worried about sacrificing your own guys. Pretty much everything is expendable in the pursuit of victory. The only thing that matters is the caster [and the arc nodes].


Good summation of Cryx, but this line got me wondering. Aren't all the factions in WM/H like that?

Cryx has recursion mechanics so bringing back dead troops is something that can be worked into a list strategy, but I never saw any other factions being precious with their troops or 'jacks/beasts. Everyone seems to happily charge towards the middle of the board and die.


To an extent yes, I guess they all are; however, each faction piece trades in a different way and they rely on different units to attain victory. In my experience Cryx relies a lot more on their casters doing the heavy lifting as opposed to say buffing/supporting key pieces that do the work. Added to that Cryx units/models are compaitively fragile across the faction. Cryx can, and will lose models quite easily and for new players is can be disheartening to see a lot of their models vanish from the table without seeming to accomplish much. Cryx, outside of a couple of recursion lists, cannot attrition. The key to Cryx is to look at the bigger picture and accept that you will lose a lot of stuff along the way and to be prepared for it. My quoted point was more a half-baked "heads-up" of what to expect going in.

As an example, the last game I played, Skarre1 vs Borka2. By the end of the game I had 6 models including my caster. I in turn killed maybe 25% of my opponents army and still won the game on assassination. In the past I might have forfitted thinking I had no chance, at one point my opponent even asked me if I wanted to, Experience has taught me I can win without most of my army and to push through.



Ah, I get you thanks for clarifying.

Good point to bring up. Losing almost your entire army can be demoralizing, but I guess with Cryx that is just like a regular Tuesday. And it is very satisfying having next to no models left and still pulling off an assassination.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Asphyxious2 is back due to the FAQs in January. He has been my favorite caster in the game. I'll give him a try again. However, the game has shifted a bit from infantry heavy to jack/beast heavy. In this setting, Gaspy2's tactics is less successful.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Bane Knight





Washington DC metro area.

I'm a salty old player. As much as I gripe, Cryx is still my primary faction and isn't going to change.
With that out of the way:

the Battlebox is actually a good start for Cryx right now. The warcaster is flexibly centered around a combination of debuffs and mobility. The warjacks included work well with her and can deliver a surprising amount of damage. A different warcaster will change how your army plays. Agathia is a good caster overall.

Bloviator's notes are on point. Especially the learning curve. The_ampersand_man made some great points - particularly about losing models: You're going to lose models..lots of them. So long as it puts you in the place you want to be it's no worry.

The game itself is looking to balance at around a 60/40 mix of Jacks/Infantry and this flexes based on what models are strongest with your caster of choice.

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Alternatively I'm a magical internet fairy.
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps







So banes are not mandatory any more? Always hated those guys, couldn't bring myself to paint them, which was a big factor in dropping the game.
   
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 kestral wrote:
So banes are not mandatory any more? Always hated those guys, couldn't bring myself to paint them, which was a big factor in dropping the game.


Nope, they're not mandatory at all. Satyxis Raiders are the closest thing to an auto-include now.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 the_ampersand_man wrote:
 kestral wrote:
So banes are not mandatory any more? Always hated those guys, couldn't bring myself to paint them, which was a big factor in dropping the game.


Nope, they're not mandatory at all. Satyxis Raiders are the closest thing to an auto-include now.

Seconded.
But don't go out without a Sea Witch.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
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Good to know - thanks! I could find it in me to paint Satrix, maybe with cut down horns.
   
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Los Angeles

 kestral wrote:
Good to know - thanks! I could find it in me to paint Satrix, maybe with cut down horns.


If you can find the first version of the Satyxis sculpts they actually had horns separate from the heads (they were a real pain to assemble!). Downside besides being hard to find is the figures are much smaller than the current Raiders, so your Satyxis would look like adolescents compared to some of the more modern figures.
   
Made in us
Satyxis Raider






Seattle, WA

 Bloviator wrote:
The internet will tell you mk3 killed Cryx. This is false. In the last edition they literally took zero skill to play. Now they have poor internal balance but can put out some very competitive lists.

Unless you're playing at the highest level, the relative power level of the faction shouldn't come into play. There is a learning curve to the game, so expect to get stomped for your first dozen games no matter which faction you choose.

Cryx are a glass cannon faction. Their warjacks are fast, not too durable and not inherently heavy hitting. Do not be fooled by this. You have access to fast, high defense arc nodes, which are arcane relays that allow you to extend your magical reach across the table, and into nooks and crannies. You will find yourself using this to inflict debuffs and other dastardly mechanics upon your foes, which will make it hard for them to hurt your units, or make them less durable (making it so that your jacks and troops hit harder).

Cryx also has access to strong recursion mechanics, stealth, elite troops, and great utility/scalpel solos. Don't quote me, but it seems the only playstyle they can't really excel in is gunlines.

Hope this helps. Good luck!


Bloviator is spot on. Cryx still has some very good builds even at a competitive level. But unless you are playing the high end tournies (even then I've been hearing some decent results) and are just looking to have fun then Cryx can be great. Casters like Coven, Asphyxious 3, Denny1 and others are still great casters. My recommendation is to either grab the starter box and build from there or pick a caster you like and do a little research to see what works best with them Probably the biggest thing when building an army is to realize you need synergy and can't just throw together whatever looks cool. Though if you have a caster/unit/solo you like you can certainly build around them.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

The internet will tell you mk3 killed Cryx. This is false. In the last edition they literally took zero skill to play. Now they have poor internal balance but can put out some very competitive lists.

The internet is not always wrong.
Cryx is definitely harder to play these days. E.g., in games vs. Cygnar it has been reported that Cryx has a hard time to reach the enemy front ranks. I guess we will see Cryx armies at less top tables in mk3.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Vassal



Who Dey

A lot of gun lines lack magic weapons, so I'm seeing a lot more Blackbanes. Incorporeal spam is apparently a thing. Also, the theme list with rediculous amounts of recursion.



Building: Retribution of Scyrah
Playing: Warmachine: Retribution of Scyrah; Battletech Alfa Strike

 
   
Made in gb
Squishy Squig






The Ghost Fleet theme force is very powerful. Blackbane's ghost raiders are a real pain to deal with, filling up landing zones and needing magic weapons to remove. The Revanent Crew respawn D3+1 guys every round, including the Rifleman unit attachments. Their accurate Ghost Shot guns can see you anywhere, and are assassinating knocked down warcasters all day.

Who's afraid of ghosts? Me for one!
   
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Lacerto wrote:
The Ghost Fleet theme force is very powerful. Blackbane's ghost raiders are a real pain to deal with, filling up landing zones and needing magic weapons to remove. The Revanent Crew respawn D3+1 guys every round, including the Rifleman unit attachments. Their accurate Ghost Shot guns can see you anywhere, and are assassinating knocked down warcasters all day.

Who's afraid of ghosts? Me for one!


Ghostfleet, IMO, is a gottcha list. Don't build your list for it and it's a problem. Have any magical weapons and the contents of the list are trivial to remove. As a cryx player I've never had Blackbane's do anything other than die and Blackbane himself isa joke to get rid of. Perhaps the ability to remove incorporeal is more common in my area, who knows.

As far as being accurate, the revenant crew riflemen are far from it at RAT4. They need to CRA to hit anything. The only plus is that they have the ability to do so. The frustrating thing with the revenant crew is that the unit wants to run/charge to engage as quickly as possible while the weapon attatchment wants to be shooting. Can't do both. Ghost shot is incredible, i'll give you that.

It's okay to recommend something but don't oversell it.
   
Made in gb
Squishy Squig






Well RAT5 with Rengrave, RAT7 aiming. Okay, not accurate shooting, but hits knocked down guys just fine. And you know who's good at knocking you down? Deneghra 1. The assassination is always on the table for her; 9 range 14 POW 10s are going to get some spikes.

Agreed, you can't shoot and jam with Revenants, but min units don't mind hanging back when Ghost Raiders can close the distance.

Yeah, lack of magic weapons is a thing, because theme forces are fantastic. Having to break theme to take magic weapons is a pretty heavy penalty for Khador at any rate. Maybe first world problems, but if a list is forcing your opponent to make meta decisions, that is certainly valuable. Anecdotally a lot of people are finding Ghost Fleet hard to deal with, at least among casual gamers such as myself.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/02 00:04:05


 
   
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Purged Thrall





FL

It is a meta consideration, but most factions don't trivially bring magical weapons anymore. Outside of menoth, trolls, legion, and maybe circle you don't even see them en masse.
   
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Infiltrating Broodlord





England

I think you need to add Retribution to that list. Don't they have a fair number of war jacks with Magical guns?

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Madrak Ironhide







 Souleater wrote:
I think you need to add Retribution to that list. Don't they have a fair number of war jacks with Magical guns?


All of them that have guns are magical, I think.

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Apart from Discordia, who is fantastic in general and an excellent answer to incorporeal, I just don't see that single shot or AOE3 heavies is a worthwhile answer to incorporeal troopers.

So do you seriously think Ghost Fleet is trash, or are you theory crafting good and bad matchups?

I think is a good list and will have success.
   
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 novaspike wrote:
It is a meta consideration, but most factions don't trivially bring magical weapons anymore. Outside of menoth, trolls, legion, and maybe circle you don't even see them en masse.

2 of our best warbeasts have magical weapons(Woldwyrd and Pureblood)
Our OK warbeats have great Magical weapons

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
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Lacerto wrote:Yeah, lack of magic weapons is a thing, because theme forces are fantastic. Having to break theme to take magic weapons is a pretty heavy penalty for Khador at any rate. Maybe first world problems, but if a list is forcing your opponent to make meta decisions, that is certainly valuable. Anecdotally a lot of people are finding Ghost Fleet hard to deal with, at least among casual gamers such as myself.


Arguably, all the Khador theme lists outside of Legion of Steel aren't really going to have much of a problem vs Ghost Fleet if you know what you're doing and select your targets correctly. Trying to pick off a revenant here and there and ignoring the incorporeal stuff is going to lead to a bad time.

novaspike wrote:It is a meta consideration, but most factions don't trivially bring magical weapons anymore. Outside of menoth, trolls, legion, and maybe circle you don't even see them en masse.


It feels to me like magic weapons are more common now. Khador for example has that new jack martial who's drive is magic weapons. Also, you don't need tons of magic weapons for the whole list, just Blackbane's, the pistol wraiths, machine wraiths, and wraith engine should they exist in the list. Those can be scalpled out via spells and the like. The Revenants themselves die to a stiff wind and with effort you can render deathbound more or less useless. If you don't make an effort to finish the job with revenants, AND your opponent rolls well for deathbound it can be tough going.

Lacerto wrote:So do you seriously think Ghost Fleet is trash, or are you theory crafting good and bad matchups? I think is a good list and will have success.


My counter questions would be: Do you play Cryx? Have you played Ghostfleet? And why is it something can only be "very powerful" or "trash".

I DO play Cryx, I HAVE repeatedly played Ghost Fleet, and have spent time teaching some of my fellow players what to look out for. The list is very easily countered if you've even built a remotely competent list and have some ability at threat assessment. My point stands that it's a "gottcha" list and that is precisely the only thing it has going for it. Take the gottcha factor out and the list folds quite easily. My assessment may change with the addition of the Hellslinger phantom and whatever they do to the Wraith Engine, assmuming it ends up better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/03 07:48:14


 
   
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Squishy Squig






 the_ampersand_man wrote:

Arguably, all the Khador theme lists outside of Legion of Steel aren't really going to have much of a problem vs Ghost Fleet if you know what you're doing and select your targets correctly. Trying to pick off a revenant here and there and ignoring the incorporeal stuff is going to lead to a bad time.

It feels to me like magic weapons are more common now. Khador for example has that new jack martial who's drive is magic weapons. Also, you don't need tons of magic weapons for the whole list, just Blackbane's, the pistol wraiths, machine wraiths, and wraith engine should they exist in the list. Those can be scalpled out via spells and the like.

My counter questions would be: Do you play Cryx? Have you played Ghostfleet? And why is it something can only be "very powerful" or "trash".

I DO play Cryx, I HAVE repeatedly played Ghost Fleet, and have spent time teaching some of my fellow players what to look out for. The list is very easily countered if you've even built a remotely competent list and have some ability at threat assessment. My point stands that it's a "gottcha" list and that is precisely the only thing it has going for it. Take the gottcha factor out and the list folds quite easily. My assessment may change with the addition of the Hellslinger phantom and whatever they do to the Wraith Engine, assmuming it ends up better.


I do not play Cryx, only against it. I do play Khador. The Winterguard Kommand theme force only has magic attacks on the warcaster. If you take Butcher you can have another magic mace on Ruin. A caster is going to have a tough time standing in a position where they can get work done without dieing. Expecting any caster to be able to kill say 41 points of incorporeal models is fantasy frankly. A bit beyond scalping at that point.

If you have any links of battle reports playing into Winterguard Kommand and having a chip and a chair I'd be interested to see it.

Of course list strength is not binary. But I believe you do not sufficiently value the list.

To OP, check out the Chasing the Dragonfather podcast. By genuine Cryx players with experience of gaming internationally. Those guys love Ghost Fleet. :-D
   
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Alguacile Paramedic






Again, have you specifically played against the Ghost Fleet? Why does a caster have to kill 41 points of incoropreal models? Do they have to do it in one turn or over a whole game?
Most lists so far have been largely built around revenant crew with some incorporeal models, almost always max Blackbane's and a Pistol Wraith or two. Other lists have been going the incorporeal route wih max Blackbanes, double Wraith Engine's. Rarely is it a full 41 points, but for sake of argument that doesn't matter.

Let's use your example of Butcher and Ruin.

If your opponent goes the Revenant route and spams a lot of min units+tripple rifles then the winterguard are going to clean up against tiny units with victim stats. AOE is the order of the day here. If they go the route of max incorporeal, they have less Revenants to play with. If so, you take the Armory objective which grants magical weapons to help you. A Winterguard Mortar with it's high explosive 4" AOE will wreck Blackbane's with their victim stats. How about a Gun Carriage? Two 12", 4" AOE, POW 16 guns parked with magic weapons!
Depending on how they're positioned, Butcher3 can charge a blackbane, cast imending doom+flashing blade and one-hit every model in the unit. Failing that, he can Obliterate them to death. Ruin can easily one-round a Wraith Engine. Butcher2/3 can one hit it. The thing is a less survivable Cryx heavy and has less output. Just an FYI that's 32 points of incorporeal gone in one go. That mortar with magic weapons can then nuke a Pistol Wraith for what would be another 5 points (were it not free in the list). Now we're at 37 points. 37 points potentially wiped out in one round by 22 points+ caster. 25 if you take the Artillery Kapitan. That's pretty good in my eyes. Don't forget that the second an incoropreal model makes an attack they become corporeal for the rest of the round. Don't need magic weapons at that point.

Of course, there's a lot of variables to consider but it's certainly possible.

Really though, all you need to do is stop them scoring/ contesting long enough for you to. You don't NEED to wipe out every model on the other side of the table.


By your own admission you're a casual player. While you claim I'm undervaluing the list I say you're overselling it. Lets look at the language you've used in this thread; " very powerful", "Blackbane's ghost raiders are a real pain to deal with", "accurate Ghost Shot guns". You're trying to sell Ghost Fleet so hard it's like you work for the company.
It's annoying when new people show up, ask for honest advice and then are told to play the flavour of the week by all but proclaiming "list op". Why does it bother me? Because sometimes people listen, go spend a crap ton of money, get rolled, and quit the game because what they were told didn't come true. That's bad for the health of the game when I want as many people playing as possible. Balanced, honest advice is the best course of action, imo

I thought it was a cute tactic on your part to claim I'm not a genuine Cryx player. I mean if I'm not why have I been playing Cryx all of Mk3?? I've played in an international tournament as well so I guess I fit the "genuine international cryx gamer". Am I world ranked, no, but are you? If only world ranked people can be listened to I guess that means OP should ignore you as well.

To the OP, be wary of anyone trying to sell you the flavour of the week lest you get suckered into Una2 and a bunch of Scarsfell Griffons.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/04/04 16:22:13


 
   
Made in gb
Squishy Squig






Hi ampersand man, I was not implying you are not a genuine Cryx player, apologies for the confusion. I was trying to say that while I am not a Cryx player, there are people who are that like this list.

I absolutely agree people should be cautious with how they buy into a miniatures game.

Thanks for the tips.
   
 
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