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Hi people. So I play casual Word Bearers and I am hesitating between two options : Assault Marines or Destroyers.

So, here's what I am thinking :

Option 1

Legion Centurion: Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon
Consul: Diabolist

Legion Assault Squad: Dark Channelling, 9x Legion Assault Space Marines
Additional Wargear: Melta Bombs
Legion Assault Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Power Fist

Total : 410 points


Option 2

Legion Destroyer Squad: Jump Packs, 9x Legion Destroyer Space Marine, Melta Bombs
Legion Destroyer Sergeant: Artificer Armour, 3x Phosphex Bombs, Power Fist

Total : 405 points.

So, the main difference is between Dark Channeling (Requiring a Diabolist) vs Rad grenades + Phosphex bombs.

Which is the best in your opinion ?

Kind of hard to say without seeing the rest of your army list.

Assault Marines for cheapish and fastish objective grabbers. Add Melta bombs if you want anti-tank.

Destroyer Squad for an expensive shock unit with lots of anti-infantry. Add Melta bombs for anti-tank. I'd also recommend rad missiles, two of em, and three phosphex bombs might be at least one too many. You're Destroyer Sarge would need a very good game to get all three bombs off. With my Destroyer Sarge I'll take at most two, YMMV.

Rad Missiles are so niche though. They have to wound to be effective against multi-wound models... so why bother? Overall Destroyers are pretty awful and overpriced.

Assault Marines are significantly better. Keep in mind you can only throw one Meltabomb, so I wouldn't waste points on the squad getting them. Points are better spent on shields, if you want upgrades. Plus, always take your special weapons! You can pack in two Power Axes for some much neede AP2 love.

Also, I think Zardu unlocks Dark Channeling if you really want to take that. I find he is a much stronger force multiplier than most HQs for WB. Honestly I am not sure DC is worth it overall (at least, not for a 10-man squad, maybe for 15-man).

I thought you could make multiple CC attacks with Melta bombs if you have more than one in a unit...I'll have to look that up.

Yeah, I agree Dark Channeling is sort of not worth it from a competitive standpoint. It's fluffy and fun, but I wouldn't be likely to use it as f I was going for an optimized army list.

 jasper76 wrote:
I thought you could make multiple CC attacks with Melta bombs if you have more than one in a unit...I'll have to look that up.

Yeah, I agree Dark Channeling is sort of not worth it from a competitive standpoint. It's fluffy and fun, but I wouldn't be likely to use it as f I was going for an optimized army list.

Rather sure the latest round of GW FAQs ruled that it was one grenade per unit in assault.

Confirmed it says that in the FAQ, which begs two questions. 1) Is a Melta Bomb a grenade or a CC weapon.

2) If a Melta bomb is considered a grenade, and you can only use one in the assault phase, then why in the hell would they ever print rules for an entire squad to upgrade to Melta Bombs?

 jasper76 wrote:
Confirmed it says that in the FAQ, which begs two questions. 1) Is a Melta Bomb a grenade or a CC weapon.

2) If it's a Melta bomb is considered a grenade, and you can only use one in the assault phase, then why in the hell would they ever print rules for an entire squad to upgrade to Melta Bombs?

It is a grenade and a lot of FW's rules predate that ruling. So, it is largely a waste now. It may be remedied via 8th Ed or a new FW FAQ (which we desperately need).

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Confirmed it says that in the FAQ, which begs two questions. 1) Is a Melta Bomb a grenade or a CC weapon.

2) If it's a Melta bomb is considered a grenade, and you can only use one in the assault phase, then why in the hell would they ever print rules for an entire squad to upgrade to Melta Bombs?

It is a grenade and a lot of FW's rules predate that ruling. So, it is largely a waste now. It may be remedied via 8th Ed or a new FW FAQ (which we desperately need).

Yeah I'd never stop a player from using all Melta bombs in CC in a unit upgraded where every model pays to get a Melta bomb upgrade. Seems like RAI would be every member of the unit gets to use MBs as CC.

Just my 2 cents.

Incidentally, this is bad for Tau too. They gave haywire grenades as the example. You'd have to upgrade the entire unit to have haywire grenades to that you could make 1 frigging haywire attack in CC. Stupid ruling IMO.

 jasper76 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Confirmed it says that in the FAQ, which begs two questions. 1) Is a Melta Bomb a grenade or a CC weapon.

2) If it's a Melta bomb is considered a grenade, and you can only use one in the assault phase, then why in the hell would they ever print rules for an entire squad to upgrade to Melta Bombs?

It is a grenade and a lot of FW's rules predate that ruling. So, it is largely a waste now. It may be remedied via 8th Ed or a new FW FAQ (which we desperately need).

Yeah I'd never stop a player from using all Melta bombs in CC in a unit upgraded where every model pays to get a Melta bomb upgrade. Seems like RAI would be every member of the unit gets to use MBs as CC.

Just my 2 cents.

You are not alone in that. Lots of groups out there house rule it that way for obvious reasons. It is just a good rule of thumb to have two lists if you are going into a new crowd (one for each ruling) and go from there.

Hopefully, FW does a nice, sizable FAQ/Errata soon.

Glad I'm not alone.

It seems like this decision must have been made after the Crusade Army List and the Tau codex was created.

They should let Tau at least just take one EMP grenade only in a unit. The only option they have now is to equip an entire unit with EMP grenades @ 2 points/model...for a big payoff of 1 attack/turn in CC??....that just doesn't add up and I can't believe that was what was intended.

Problem with all can use is that vehicles are already ridic weak as it is. With everybody can use vehicles were even more weak.

Anyway there's still reason to have entire squad with them. Just bit expensive. Rule is good, pricing for upgrade needs to be reconsidered.

Yeah, for Destroyers it's a 75 pint upgrade. I just can't figure 75 points is the right number to ensure that your unit will always have 1 Melta Bomb CC attack while it's on the table.

If 5 points is the going rate for a Sarge's Melta Bomb, I'd think may 10 or 15 points would be good for an entire squad of MBs if only one of them can ever be used at a time. 75 points per unit certainly isn't the right number for Destroyers, and 5 points per model isn't the right number for Assault Squads.

But I don't think any of this is as it was intended. I think the designers intended for your Assault Squads and Destroyer Squads to be able to make 1 MB attack per model if you pay for the upgrade...precisely because it makes them a big danger to vehicles and MCs.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
TRUTH IN ADVERTISING: I'm a bit butthurt about this, because all my Destroyers are modelled with Melta bombs...an upgrade I would not take if only 1 model in the unit can use them! I know I can just say they don't have Melta bombs, but I like staying WYSIWYG dammit!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: sorry my numbers were off. It costs 25 points to upgrade all members of a Destroyer Squad to have Melta bombs, and not 75 like I said above.

So, do you guys think I should take max assault marines with several power weapons and just leave the melta bombs out if it seems cheasy ?

Also, I know DC isn't a competitve unit, but me and my friends got into 30k to exactly get out of the competitve and WAAC mindset (and the inbalance between some armies).

We mostly play for fluff, gak and giggles.

 Khornate25 wrote:
So, do you guys think I should take max assault marines with several power weapons and just leave the melta bombs out if it seems cheasy ?

Also, I know DC isn't a competitve unit, but me and my friends got into 30k to exactly get out of the competitve and WAAC mindset (and the inbalance between some armies).

We mostly play for fluff, gak and giggles.

I would say 15 is the right amount of Assault Marines. You get triple Power Axes and give your Sarge AA and a Fist (or Meltabombs) and you should be golden. Jump Pack Apoth for the FNP bump.

As for Destroyers, you play Word Bearers. You should go Ashen Circle instead! And Zardu unlocks them as troops, too, so that is a plus. You can load them up on Power Axes. They are fluffy, not OP at all, and really a cool unit.

 jasper76 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Confirmed it says that in the FAQ, which begs two questions. 1) Is a Melta Bomb a grenade or a CC weapon.

2) If it's a Melta bomb is considered a grenade, and you can only use one in the assault phase, then why in the hell would they ever print rules for an entire squad to upgrade to Melta Bombs?

It is a grenade and a lot of FW's rules predate that ruling. So, it is largely a waste now. It may be remedied via 8th Ed or a new FW FAQ (which we desperately need).

Yeah I'd never stop a player from using all Melta bombs in CC in a unit upgraded where every model pays to get a Melta bomb upgrade. Seems like RAI would be every member of the unit gets to use MBs as CC.

Just my 2 cents.

Incidentally, this is bad for Tau too. They gave haywire grenades as the example. You'd have to upgrade the entire unit to have haywire grenades to that you could make 1 frigging haywire attack in CC. Stupid ruling IMO.

My brother used to run a list of like 100+ firewarriors, and it was almost unbeaten (funny as that is) because our meta at the time was basically wraithknights and imperial knights, if he saw an imperial knight he would charge it with 20+ haywire grenades and obliterate the thing, if he saw a WK he would drown it in like 300+ S5 shots.

I'm kinda glad they made that change