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Hey, here's my most competitive army list attempt. It'd be using four formations - two renegades of vraks CADs, a daemon CAD, and a heralds anarchic formation. It'd require extreme speed playing, but I reckon I could manage it within a 3hr time limit per game.

R+H CAD 1
Ordnance tyrant MoN command squad with autocannon 95pts

2 Wyverns 110pts
2 Wyverns 110pts

20-man infantry squad with melta bomb and sigil and command vox 80pts
20-man infantry squad with melta bomb and sigil 75pts
20-man infantry squad with melta bomb and sigil 75pts
16-man infantry squad with melta bomb and sigil 63pts
15-zombie squad 45pts
15-zombie squad 45pts

Rapier laser destroyers x 3 with militia training and 3 extra crew 79pts
Rapier laser destroyers x 3 with militia training and 3 extra crew 79pts
Rapier laser destroyers x 3 with militia training and 3 extra crew 79pts

Renegades CAD 2
Command squad with autocannon 55pts

Earthshaker cannon 55pts
Earthshaker cannon 55pts
Earthshaker cannon 55pts

15-zombie squad 45pts
15-zombie squad 45pts

3 Griffons 105pts
3 Griffons 105pts

Daemon CAD

Tzeentch herald 45pts

11 blue horrors 55pts
11 blue horrors 55pts
11 blue horrors 55pts
11 blue horrors 55pts


Heralds Anarchic
Tzeentch herald with paradox + ML2 95pts
Tzeentch herald 45pts
Tzeentch herald 45pts

The tzeralds roll on malefic to summon more heavy hitters or daemonettes. The obsec horde surges forwards to overrun the objectives, and the guns sit back and blow away the enemy. Hopefully I can use the denial dice to deny invisibility for deathstars while the artillery chips away at whatever is most vulnerable. Reckon this would fair well against highly competitive lists?

You're on the right track, but I think the Infantry squads are just going to hold you back. They also might make it hard for you to work within a 3 hour time constraint. The Daemons alone are already going to involve a lot of book keeping.

Now, I'll admit, most of my experience comes from playing against R+H in competitive scenarios, but here are some recommendations based on what I see them doing:

1. Drop militia training from the Rapiers. BS2 isn't going to make that much a difference over BS3 when they're twin-linked (though not everyone agrees on this I'll admit, see below).

2. You don't need quite so many extra crew on the Rapiers. Remember, while artillery allocates wounds like normal, shooting attacks are made against the artillery's profile regardless of proximity.

3. Ditch all of the infantry squads. You have zombies for tarpitting. You don't need them.

4. Use your new free points to pick up more Earthshakers (2-3) and add in Medusas for a bit of AP2.

If you want even more ideas based on an alternate loadout, this list was the winner of the 2017 LVO:

Demons CAD

Fateweaver 300
The Masque 75
Brims 30
Brims 30
7 Screamers 175

Heralds Anarchic Formation

Lv. 3 Herald, Paradox, Disc 145
Lv. 1 Herald, Exalted, Disc 100
Lv. 1 Herald, 45

Renegades CAD

Command Squad, Nurgle, Ordnance Tyrant 85
3x Earthshakers 165
2x Wyverns 110
Wyvern 55
17 Plague Zombies 51
17 Plague Zombies 51
Quad Launcher 30
Quad Launcher 30
Quad Launcher 30
Quad Launcher 30
3x Rapier Laser Destroyer, additional crew, training 79
3x Rapier Laser Destroyer, additional crew, training 79
3x Rapier Laser Destroyer, additional crew, training 79
Skyshield Landing Pad 75

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/02/lvo-2017-unbeatable-40k-list-top-8-players.html

Agree with pretty much everything in the above post, except I believe Militia Training elevates the rapiers from BS3-->4, which I find to be worthwhile for 10 points per squad.

Also, the screamerstar in these lists is just amazing. Being able to tarpit pretty much anything you want and fire wyverns into it without worrying about killing friendly models is extremely useful. Plus they're just way faster than troops, and Fateweaver's once per turn re-roll is great.

That list from LVO is just savage...

Thanks for the feedback guys. Interesting to hear that a similar Tzeentch/Renegades list won the LVO too.

Yeah I guess screamer star/fateweaver build would be a powerful addition to the renegades, creating a rapid immovable object to hold down an objective when you need it. Never used one of those myself though, and I don't currently have the models either.

With the RLDs I think the math works out pretty similarly to if you have barebones ones or if you pay for extra crew or militia training. I do quite like the power to throw a T7 renegade out the front to take the first hit without causing a morale test.

I've personally been quite impressed with my renegade infantry's performance. They tarpit almost as well as the zombies, are faster with the option to run, get a couple of shots of las fire, and the MB means they have the possibility of causing damage to vehicles/MCs in CC too. They are a little pricier and are weaker in defence but I think they can have their role in a horde list.

I guess quite a lot of this is based round what I already have as models. I could swap out a infantry squad for my medusa perhaps? I do like to have a horde large enough that it's near-impossible to table it, however. I find it acts as a counter balance to the other essentially unkillable things in this game.

Well one thing for sure is your 2nd renegade CAD should be the Purge. You have enough troop slots to put all your zombies in the first CAD so if you just do that, and put as much barrage in the The Purge you get the same functionality you have now plus your barrage also leave dangerous terrain for your opponents to walk through.

I will second taking Militia Training and extra crew on the RLDs. TL BS2 is a 55% hit rate and TL BS3 is a 75% hit rate which is a huge jump. Also the extra crew are good because there ware ways to force wounds on the crew (positioning, focused witchfires, precision shots, barrage sniping) so extra crew make it harder to force morale checks and helps insure you have enough crew to fire your RDLs.

Also just to make sure, you do know there is a difference between IA13's Chaos Sigil and Vraks's Chaos Sigil right? Because Vraks's sigil is just Stubborn and rerolling morale tests which is good but requires you have rolled a good Ld to be usable for tarpitting. If your blob rolls Ld5 or 6 they are probably going to run away anyway. I would also suggest getting rid of the infantry platoon or at least turn them into more zombies.

That's a really good call on the purge detachment - seems like a good way to get dangerous-terrain blasts for free. Thanks!

Yeah - I know what the sigil does and I really like them (aside from not being on a character model). Even if you get crazy unlucky and roll a 5 for leadership, they still have almost a 50% chance of passing a LD test with the re-roll, and that command net vox means that each unit should be using the best of two unit's leadership. I've only ever played R+H at one local tourney before, and I only had one unit ever run out of four games with six of the infantry squads above.

That being said, here's a revised list with purge and plague zombies then:

R+H CAD 1
Ordnance tyrant MoN command squad with autocannon 95pts

20 zombies 60pts
20 zombies 60pts
20 zombies 60pts
20 zombies 60pts
20 zombies 60pts
12 zombies 36pts


Rapier laser destroyers x 3 with militia training and 3 extra crew 79pts
Rapier laser destroyers x 3 with militia training and 3 extra crew 79pts
Rapier laser destroyers x 3 with militia training and 3 extra crew 79pts

Renegades Purge Detachment
Command squad with autocannon 55pts
Earthshaker cannon with one additional crew 58pts
Earthshaker cannon with one additional crew 58pts
Earthshaker cannon with one additional crew 58pts
2 Wyverns 110pts
2 Wyverns 110pts
3 Griffons 105pts
3 Griffons 105pts
Medusa carriage with one additional crew 83pts

Daemon CAD

Tzeentch herald 45pts

11 blue horrors 55pts
11 blue horrors 55pts
11 blue horrors 55pts
11 blue horrors 55pts


Heralds Anarchic
Tzeentch herald with paradox + ML2 95pts
Tzeentch herald 45pts
Tzeentch herald 45pts

Smaller, slower, horde with lower damage output but better morale and durability, and a shiny new medusa cannon to make people scared of S10.