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So what to play in todays meta?

All i actually see is Renegades, with some Daemons and Magnus or Khornedogs with Socerers on Bikes and Fateweaver.

I started long ago with beginning of 4th edition and only stopped playing while 6th edition was out. I started again in 7th but it is really hard to keep pace with all the detachment, formations and books, that got released.

So i really like my Daemons, but i hate the new splitrules for Horrors and it is really hard for me to build a decent list for my next upcoming 1500 point local tournament in my gamestore. I don't have any ideas anymore, it's really strange. Never thought that i can't find i list i like and want to play.

What do people play acutally?

Also can a Flying circus work in this edition?

Are Horrors the only viable Coretroops? What's with Nurglings and Plaguebearers or Daemonettes?

How would you build a decent list for 1500 point games (Maelstrom and Eternal War, only 1 Superheavy, no Forgeworld, only 2 Factions, max 3 Detachments and no Double Formations, FOC, CAD, Allies etc).

Here are the models i have:

Daemons

2 Insensate Thirster
2 Unfettered Thirster (one new and a old resin one)
1 or 3 Great Unclean One (1x Glottkin and 2x metal ones)
1 old Kairos (Resin)
1 old Lord of Change (don't know if i can use them anymore, since the new model for the LOC is out)
8 Daemonprinces
20 Fleshhounds (plastic Chaoshounds but only on 40mm bases)
60 Plaguebaerers
30 Horrors
20 Daemonettes
10 Bloodletters
9 Plaguedrones
3 Beasts of Nurgle
18 Screamers
12 Flamer of Tzeentch
2 Herald of Nurgle
1 Herald of Tzeentch
1 Blue Scribes (selfmade)
12 Nurglings
1 Belakor

and i also have these CSM models, if they can help to build a list:
2 Landraiders
2 Maulerfiends
2 Helldrakes with Baleflamer
2 Helbrutes
ca 20 or more Chaosmarines (2x Plasma, 2x Clawpair, 2x Fist, 2x BP+Claw)
ca 16 or more Plaguemarines (4xPlasma, 1xMeltagun)
12 Chaosspawn
9 Obliterators
60 Cultists (some have guns others Pistols + CCW, also 2 Flamers and 2 Machineguns)
10 Terminators (also have another 10 old metal Chaosterminators + mixed Combiweapons and CCW Weapons)
15-20 Possessed
3 Rhinos
Typhus
Abaddon
Ahriman
15 Raptors (6x Meltaguns)
some Socerers with Jumppack
6 Bikers (1x Fist + Claw, 2x Plasma)

And the rest:

1x Magnus
2x Renegade Knight (1x Paladin, other one isn't built)
6x Exalted Socerers (2x Disc)



Hope you guys can help me further? Looking forward to some opinions and suggestions=)

Flying Circus is one of the OP build in the whole WH40K game. Especially when coupled with the buff from formations like the Inferno Tetra. 4 S7, T6 FMC in the sky, with lucky on WT rolls you get Tzeentch Prince with 2++ rerolling ones, all other Princes are 4++ base and will become 2++ if Grimored, not even mentioning the Nurgle DP have 2+ cover save, and Khrone DP can wear an armor that reduce incoming attacks' strength by one.

On the offensive, Slaneesh DP can reliably dish out 2D6 S7 shots hitting on 2s rerolling 1s; with the right reward rolling, anyone can get a S8 AP1 lance, hitting on 2s reroll 1s; Tzeentch DP can get StrD witchfire, while everyone except the Khrone DP can reliably get Psychic shriek; in combat Tzeentch DP can attack with S9 AP2 in close combat, Nurgle DP wielding S7 poison instant death AP2 weapon, Khrone DP's weapon at least will be S7 AP2 ID on a 6 as well.

And most importantly, they all get to fly, only being hit on 6s, and moving fast so can easily choose which enemy unit to engage, i.e. they can easily shoot the choppy unit to Death, before landing the 2++ guys then chop the shooty guys into ribbons. How is that not strong?

I've had very good luck with both the Infernal Tetrad formation, and the combination of a screamerstar, hound star, or drone star with Fateweaver, Be'Lakor, and a Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage. Scouting 20 flesh hounds with invisiblity and a 3++ alongside a shrouded Bloodthirster and Be'Lakor is pretty disgusting.

You have a ton of models so your options are very open. If you are looking for competitive lists I would just search for tournament lists on google and look at the Daemon lists that have been doing well, then modify them to your liking.

This is one of the lists I have played recently in competitive games with a lot of success:

CAD 1:
Fateweaver
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage, 2x Greater, Lesser, Armour of Scorn
11x Blue Horrors
11x Blue Horrors
8x Screamers

CAD 2:
Be'Lakor
11x Blue Horrors
11x Blue Horrors

Formation - Heralds Anarchic:
Herald of Tzeentch, Disc, ML3, Paradox
Herald of Tzeentch, Disc, ML3, Lesser
Herald of Tzeentch, Disc, ML2, Exalted

You only have to use the new Pink Horror split rules if you're using the Wrath of Magnus book. If you stick to the Daemons codex [including the Incursion edition], you use just what's in the codex. EDIT: and you can certainly use your old lord of change model. I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.

Flying Circus style lists can work, definitely. They can be effective when in a CAD, especially as it allows use of Belakor, Fateweaver, and others as you choose.

But the Infernal Tetrad, as others have said, is an even better way to get four FMCs in one list. The Tetrad can be taken on it's own, but works even better when part of a Demonic Incursion, as you'll be able to add or subtract 1 from the Warp Storm result, and reroll Instability.

The Incursion also helps a lot in objective-based missions, as any of your units on the ground can corrupt objectives.

Since the Tetrad can be expensive points-wise, the cheapest options to fill out the Incursion are a barebones Tallyband [7 minimum units of Nurglings, and a Herald of Nurgle] and either Karanak or a minimum squad of furies.I've had a lot of success with this, personally [except against pure DE or GSC].


Just for completeness' sake, I''ve read reports and articles, and it seems like, when properly configured, a Wrath of Magnus flying circus based around Magnus, fateweaver, a few flying buddies and some other WoM formations is a stronger tournament list than an Infernal Tetrad one. Of course, if you're not completely into tournaments, or want to use non-Tzeentch units, I'd recommend the Tetrad.

Thanks for the answers^^.

Are you sure that you can choose which rules you want? I am not that sure=).

Okay but if the Flying Circus is good, why are there aren't more armylists or reports about it?

Also how do i fit a infernal tetrad into 1500 points? The Tetrad already eats 1300 of the 1500 points.

 Darksider wrote:
Thanks for the answers^^.

Are you sure that you can choose which rules you want? I am not that sure=).

Okay but if the Flying Circus is good, why are there aren't more armylists or reports about it?

Also how do i fit a infernal tetrad into 1500 points? The Tetrad already eats 1300 of the 1500 points.

It's not so much the flying circus like it used to be. It's a demonic incursion warpflame hosts with LOC and fateweaver and a seeker star. Not to say the flying circus would be bad - it will beat most things just as easily.

You need more points for the tetrad. At like 2000 it becomes more viable. Typically in a tetrad you aren't flying your daemons ether - they stay on the ground and assault things.

Why aren't there more daemon armies out there? I have no idea. It's clearly the best army in the game. I think it's a combination of - no one will play against you out of a tournament and in a tournament you will probably do REALLY good but it's possible to lose a 3 turn objective game vs an army they would easily table in 4 turns just because of the nature of tournament games having a time limit (daemons are the slowest army in the game in terms of gameplay).

So a Frontline article actually answered why you don't see the Infernal Tetrad at tournaments more to some extent (in a way I agree with myself at least partially). I'd say this highlights some of the points Xenomancers made as well:

However, it has an extremely hard time dealing with stormsurges. In one game I had a double stormsurge list stomp 3 princes to death. In another game with only one stormsurge I had it stomp two princes to death. Given the 4++, FNP and 8 wounds, stormsurges are more threatening in assault than wraithknights!

With the Terad list having a hard counter that is fairly common, you will not see Tetrad lists take large events like LVO or NOVA. You might see them win some brackets by luck, but the more common the double stormsurge list becomes in the bracket, the less Tetrad lists you will see.

You will also just have bad games where the dice completely fail you. For a 3 round tourney, this is not such a problem. It’s quite possible to not have that ‘bad game’ over the course of 3 rounds. If you are playing 5 or 6 rounds, the chances of getting knocked out of the running drops dramatically.
For casual games, it does not matter. You can have a bad game 1/4 of the time. Winning in 3/4 of your games might seem like the list is kicking ass.

This is why I rate the Infernal Tetrad list as tier 1.5 It’s better than a tier two list, but will not be something you see take over the meta.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/03/31/care-and-feeding-of-the-infernal-tetrad/

Infernal Tetrad is good. I personally dont like it, since its too points heavy and you are taking khorne prince. I like the Monscient Oracles (Fatey+LoC) and my favourite, Rehati war sect (Magnus+3 daemon princes) which is what I am building right now. The flying circus is really good depending on your meta and what competitve rules you play with. In normal games, the flying circus is really good. With ITC rules they are a bit hindered since you rely on summoning. IMO you dont see them much because it gets really boring. For example, the tetrad is about 1500 pts your 350 extra could be anything but the problem is that you are locked in. Its also a very rock paper scissors army . You will stomp eldar and space marines but get recked by Tau (like super recked) trust me... I love my daemon princes but i am very scared for them cause 8th has been announced and I dont know whats going to happen to my circus. The reason why everyone takes horrors is because they simply are the best troops unit in the game. They can split and provide you warp charge. With that said, at 1500 points your best bet is working with the tetrad or a cad. I think tetrad is better for you. So I came up with a list:

CAD Daemons:

Masque (for stopping deathstars/ anything scary to you)

2x10 pink horrors

Tet:

Prince 1: DoK, wings, Armour of Scorn, 1 greater reward

Prince 2: DoN, wings, ML3, 2 greater 1 lesser (telepathy/biomancy)

Prince 3: DoS, wings, ML3,2 greater 1 lesser (biomancy) and take the whip

Prince 4: DoT, wings, imposible robe ML3, 2 greater (malefic)

1500 pts

You can sub out the masque and the nurglings and cut some points from the tet in order to invest in your chaos models just in case your meta has a lot of anti psychers. Make sure to have your Tzeentch Prince as warlord to get those amazing warlord traits.

Terminal wrote:
You only have to use the new Pink Horror split rules if you're using the Wrath of Magnus book. If you stick to the Daemons codex [including the Incursion edition], you use just what's in the codex.

This is debatable. WoM is part of the game as a whole and it specifically say the Pink/Blue/Brimstone Horrors within its pages REPLACE the entry in the Daemon codex. So even if you are just using the Daemon Codex, there is a current publication that alters that book and must be considered the most recent version
In order to use the old rules, you have to pretend that WoM does not exist. This could be considered cherry-picking and can be a very slippery slop.

On topic, FMC spam Deamons is a great way to play. Tetrad is a good choice, so is Omniscient Oracles, or even just taking multiple detachments for max HQs Greater Daemons
One thing you could take is an OO with FW & 1 LoC, then take 3 Allied CSM detachments. 1 Alpha Legion with infiltrating Cultists, 1 Iron Warriors with Troop Oblits & 1 Night Lords with Stealth Cultist. Each has a Tz DP HQ with their Legions 2+ save relic. 2+ re-rolling 1's.

-

^ He is restricted to 3 detachments

 -v10mega wrote:
^ He is restricted to 3 detachments

Ah, right then. Take an OO formation with FW + 2 LoCs and 2 of those 3 Allied detachments. The point is to get 5 Tz FMCs in the list with most of them having a 2+ re-rollable somehow.
One of the LoCs will take Robes and his 2 CSM DPs will have a 2+ relic

Thank you very much for all the responses=).


Yeah the hardcounter for the Tetrad build are Tau and they are also very common on the tournaments, also Eldar with Wraithknight and Spiderspam + Jetbikes, new Yannari and also Spacemarines.


Also thanks for your premade lists. So it seems i need to play Horrors, hm but how effective are they without blues and brimstones?

Which models do you use for Exalted Flamers, when you want to build a warpflame host? Only have 12 Flamers and no Exalted =(

Also i don't know if i can build the list Galef suggested, as i can't double CADs, Allies and Formations in the 3 available Detachments=(.

I don't know if a Ironwarrior Allied Detachment = another CSM allied Detachment or does it count as a different one, cause it's a different legion?

All low model count flying daemon armies have one big weakness. Inconsistency, you whole game depends regularly on single dice rolls.
Grounding tests, psychic tests, rolls for psychic abilities before the game starts etc.

So if you choose to play a circus bear in mind, there wont be that much middle ground games. You either win good or lose because you missed a crucial roll/played tau.
Still it always makes for interesting games. Every game depends on so much pre game rolles 9~ psychic abillities, 8 greater rewards and the warlord ability that every game is different.

I'm building a Demonic Incursion 4 Nurgle Princes army, still need another starter box.

Good combination of swift CC Winged Princes with tough FNP Shrouded troops. Very little shooting however.

I know with so many random rolls, each game can be really different, depending on which powers and gifts you get.

But i like that you can sometimes get a really powerful Daemonprince=).


I tried a Incursion with Tallyband and 3 Nurgle Princes, but i don't know if it is good enough for a 1500 point tournament. Think the Tallyband is a bit to slow.

Also i think you can only have 3 daemon commands and not 4 as you described.

 Darksider wrote:
I know with so many random rolls, each game can be really different, depending on which powers and gifts you get.

But i like that you can sometimes get a really powerful Daemonprince=).


I tried a Incursion with Tallyband and 3 Nurgle Princes, but i don't know if it is good enough for a 1500 point tournament. Think the Tallyband is a bit to slow.

Also i think you can only have 3 daemon commands and not 4 as you described.

You're right about it being slow, Darksider. However, that can be mitigated by A) deepstriking some of the units in, or B) using mostly Nurglings [instead of Plaguebearers], because the Nurglings can Infiltrate.

The Daemonic Incursion detachment allows for up to 4 Command Options [Daemon Lord, which is one of a whole variety of things, or the Infernal Tetrad formation].

As far as I know, the Traitor Legions are like the loyalist chapters - they still come from the same Faction & Codex. It would be a Chaos Space Marines Allied Detachment, with the Iron Warriors rules.

Terminal wrote:


The Daemonic Incursion detachment allows for up to 4 Command Options [Daemon Lord, which is one of a whole variety of things, or the Infernal Tetrad formation].

Actually It was a printing error. Some of them say 4, but it's suppose to be 3

Terminal wrote:
You only have to use the new Pink Horror split rules if you're using the Wrath of Magnus book. If you stick to the Daemons codex [including the Incursion edition], you use just what's in the codex.

-

 CrownAxe wrote:

Terminal wrote:


The Daemonic Incursion detachment allows for up to 4 Command Options [Daemon Lord, which is one of a whole variety of things, or the Infernal Tetrad formation].

Actually It was a printing error. Some of them say 4, but it's suppose to be 3

Ha! I knew I had seen it somewhere that you could have 4! So 3 regular Demon Princes/HQ's OR Infernal Tetrad which of course must be four. Thanks for the clarification.