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Hey everyone. So I've been watching Battle Reports and surfing the interwebs trying to get some insight into how the Ynari work. From what I can tell, they are a pretty mean army. A lot of people seem to be saying they are broken to a point they won't play them against people just because it really isn't fun for anyone. That being said, I'm sure they're going to be showing up at a tournament near you soon.

I've been theory crafting on my own on how I'd try and counter all the Soul Bursting and what not and am having problems coming up with solutions that do more then prolong the inevitable defeat I feel I'll be staring down. I mainly play Dark Angels with the Lion's Blade at tournaments. Lots of small squads in free transports toting lots of grav. I may sprinkle in some Ravenwing here and there. My main plan of action right now is to try and isolate the units I can to keep the soul bursting down to a minimum. I don't really have an answer for WWP shenanigans yet other than maybe a Ravenwing Support Squadron since they have intercept. Maybe get some of my models into CC if 2 Ynari units are close by then Kill the one not in CC to keep Soul Bursting down?

That's about as far as I've gotten so far but wanted some input from the Dakka community.

I want to ask the people that have played against/with them for some feed back on what you saw and how you dealt with it. I wanted to ask everyone else what your plan is too.

Also, not looking for DA or even SM specific tactics here. Just what your plan is with the army you play. I thought having all this knowledge in one place may help some of us less skilled gamers.

Disclaimer: Not complaining or making the claim that Ynari are broken. Just want the communities input on how best to tackle the monster that is Ynari.

First: What it is strong against?
MSU spam, if you are MSU it will destroy you.

What is it weak against?
Durable units, AV13+ Vehicles, DeathStars, Fliers, and 48'+ range weapons

Necrons and KDK are actually good against them, High AV vehicles and units that dont die in from 1-2 units shooting them.

I would think Flier Nids, Necrons, Chaos Rens with Artillery spam (60" range stuff)

DA is honestly a hard counter.
DA 3+ re-rolling jinks Black Knights with a St. Celestine to tak the wounds will hurt them really badly.

Edit: SW are a nice counter too, t5 3++ with FnP CC units that can Multi-charge easily.

The main tactic/strategy that I think needs to be applied is to cause wounds to a unit but don't destroy it entirely. Whittle down multiple units so that when you finally kill a unit off the soulburst action is mitigated. Alternate targets before finishing 1 off.

Also, if you don't finish the unit off, you'll force morale checks and hope to get lucky there lol

Trueknight803 wrote:
The main tactic/strategy that I think needs to be applied is to cause wounds to a unit but don't destroy it entirely. Whittle down multiple units so that when you finally kill a unit off the soulburst action is mitigated. Alternate targets before finishing 1 off.

Also, if you don't finish the unit off, you'll force morale checks and hope to get lucky there lol

In addition to this, once you're in a position to kill multiple of the Ynnari units make sure to kill the ones that HAVEN'T soulburst yet, as it's a once per turn (at most) ability

Jbz` wrote:

Trueknight803 wrote:
The main tactic/strategy that I think needs to be applied is to cause wounds to a unit but don't destroy it entirely. Whittle down multiple units so that when you finally kill a unit off the soulburst action is mitigated. Alternate targets before finishing 1 off.

Also, if you don't finish the unit off, you'll force morale checks and hope to get lucky there lol

In addition to this, once you're in a position to kill multiple of the Ynnari units make sure to kill the ones that HAVEN'T soulburst yet, as it's a once per turn (at most) ability

As for tactics, this is the best advice.

Close range Ynari units usually benefits the most from soulburst, i.e. Archon w WWP and Wraithguards, Warpspiders and etc. Honestly the Wraithguards are the baddest thing for Ynari, 9 times out of 10, they will trigger the initial soul burst chain.

If you run MSU, and you know that Wraith ball is gonna drop next turn, please spread out your units so those D-scythes can't range another unit when they kill their intended target. Their warp spiders losing battle focus kinda do hurt them, if they deep struck farther than 12" from one of your unit, they won't be able to fire like before.

I run lions blade with a barkstar, I will probably reserve everything except the star.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
First: What it is strong against?
MSU spam, if you are MSU it will destroy you.

What is it weak against?
Durable units, AV13+ Vehicles, DeathStars, Fliers, and 48'+ range weapons

Necrons and KDK are actually good against them, High AV vehicles and units that dont die in from 1-2 units shooting them.

I would think Flier Nids, Necrons, Chaos Rens with Artillery spam (60" range stuff)

DA is honestly a hard counter.
DA 3+ re-rolling jinks Black Knights with a St. Celestine to tak the wounds will hurt them really badly.

Edit: SW are a nice counter too, t5 3++ with FnP CC units that can Multi-charge easily.

Haha I think the Black Knights with Celestine would hurt a lot of stuff badly. I haven't gotten her yet but am really looking forward to trying this out. One day. I thought Necrons would be a hard for them to but then I watched a battle report on miniwargaming. Necron player was running the Decurion with the Judicator Battalian. The Ynari, mostly DE, pretty much tabled the Necrons. How much was due to bad decisions on the Necron player's part is debatable but I feel like them being able to table them at all is an accomplishment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks for the advice to everyone! I'm going to read these again before I got to my next tournament. I know there's at least 1 or 2 gamers that are likely to run something them.

Remember that the only way to field Ynnari is via the Reborn Warhost, so:
A) they won't be Obsec
B) One of the commands benefits means that they do NOT take Moral checks for shooting if within 7" on another Reborn host unit
C) There almost always be 2 Soulbursts per kill

So don't rely on causing Moral check, because they auto-pass those.
Instead, try to target units that are isolated if possible and will not give Soulburst to another unit because they are not within 7". Admittedly, this tactic relies on the Ynnari player's blunders rather that straight tactics.

If you whittle down the units then try to find units that are only within 7" of only 1 other unit, you can minimize the Soulburst.

-

You beat Ynari by exploiting your opponents mistakes, at least from my experiences

Renegades and Heretics seem to be on par. Bubble wrap everything important with hordes of zombies, barrage everything (negating line of sight) with table-wide range and ObSec on your hordes.

Looking at that, we can extrapolate a few things that might be useful:

1. ObSec is good for hurting Ynnari, who have no real way to access it en masse.

2. Out ranging the Ynnari/denying LoS protection. If the high mobility of a Ynnari army is negated and units can be destroyed when they are not in range to hurt your units, Ynnari seem as weak as any other faction.

3. Large unit configurations. The harder it is for a Ynnari player to wipe out one of your units, the harder it is for the Ynnari to trigger a Soulburst on demand. Having large units rather than MSU seems a good step.

As said, don't go MSU. That will trigger bursts. Also the army wants to be up close and personal. Keep in mind the dead unit has to die within 7" to trigger a burst. Keep them 7" away from your guys, and that helps. A few other things:

No real counter to deepstrikers. For space marines, drop pods! Drop in, unload at something. Target priority is key. Try to take out fringe units then work in to center. That way you limit what can burst. And a unit can't burst if it's dead. And eldar in general do NOT like being shot at. Prioritize units with psykers, then scat bikes and whatever. and don't get into combat with a ynarri death star. (Especially if led by visarch yrvaine or both) Not much holds them off. (Aside from th/ss termies) instead, kite the Death Star around and plink it to death.

Skyhammer would do well. Drop in, nuke a few key units, tie them up... should work well. Eldar are glass cannons and do not do well in a slugfest. - an arena space marines do well at.

Caedes wrote:
As said, don't go MSU. That will trigger bursts. Also the army wants to be up close and personal. Keep in mind the dead unit has to die within 7" to trigger a burst. Keep them 7" away from your guys, and that helps. A few other things:

No real counter to deepstrikers. For space marines, drop pods! Drop in, unload at something. Target priority is key. Try to take out fringe units then work in to center. That way you limit what can burst. And a unit can't burst if it's dead. And eldar in general do NOT like being shot at. Prioritize units with psykers, then scat bikes and whatever. and don't get into combat with a ynarri death star. (Especially if led by visarch yrvaine or both) Not much holds them off. (Aside from th/ss termies) instead, kite the Death Star around and plink it to death.

Skyhammer would do well. Drop in, nuke a few key units, tie them up... should work well. Eldar are glass cannons and do not do well in a slugfest. - an arena space marines do well at.

If you're fighting pure Ynnari than maybe, but I think lots of them are going to ally in a Riptide Wing, which means you could easily be facing quite a bit of Interceptor AP2.

An allied riptide wing is close to 500 pts or more. That's a solid chunk of army, that does not count towards the reborn warhost. And nothing says drop pods have to come in super close. Drop down at max range for your grav devs, disembark into cover, and that will limit the damage. Then grav should seriously mess up the riptides day. The assault squads can charge key ynari units (cause they can't soulburst if locked in combat) and tau can't overwatch if ynari units are charged. Fighting ynari is all about killing the critical unit first, and systematically removing key parts in ideal order. I play ynarri - and I love when guys dump shooting into my wraithblades cause I know they can tank it. But take out my jetbikes, venom etc and my army loses a lot of its oomph.

Eldar at equal points can shoot down and win against pure imperial knight lists with scatbikes or warpspiders...vehicles aren't a sure bet, and if they fire twice it's even worse. Try again at the "be durable" gambit.

Caedes wrote:
An allied riptide wing is close to 500 pts or more. That's a solid chunk of army, that does not count towards the reborn warhost. And nothing says drop pods have to come in super close. Drop down at max range for your grav devs, disembark into cover, and that will limit the damage. Then grav should seriously mess up the riptides day. The assault squads can charge key ynari units (cause they can't soulburst if locked in combat) and tau can't overwatch if ynari units are charged. Fighting ynari is all about killing the critical unit first, and systematically removing key parts in ideal order. I play ynarri - and I love when guys dump shooting into my wraithblades cause I know they can tank it. But take out my jetbikes, venom etc and my army loses a lot of its oomph.

My 1st game was against a MSU SM spam, I won with only 500pts of Scatbikes. he stopped playing after turn 2 when my 6 units equaled to 12 units due to soulburst. My Fire Dragons popped 2 tanks to make it easy.

So yes 500-600pts of Eldar is enough in Ynnari. Having 500pts Tau is extremely easy to put into Ynnari.

So played Ynnari the first time Saturday. We only had 2 hours to play (he was play testing his list for an upcoming tournament that was ITC format, 1850, 2 hour games).

I took a Lion's Blade with lots of drop pods, rhinos, razors, and grav. I managed to kill the Yncarne (sp?) in 1 shooting phase with 27 grav shots haha. He was using their Triumvirate. We played ITC Mission 3 (i think) with purge the alien. I decided to focus on maelstrom. He beat me on the primary mission and got all 4 points for that but I was able to run away with maelstrom and got all the tertiary points (first blood, slay the warlord, etc.). I actually won 9-6.

Spreading out my units, focusing on his isolated units, and being ready to sacrifice a throw away unit or two really worked out. Using LoS blocking terrain and thinking that out way in advance also made a huge difference. It was weird looking for this in my shooting phase as opposed to where I think his units will be in his shooting phase.

I had to think a lot harder/longer on my movement/shooting to figure out the second and third order of effects for what I was about to do.

I will say that, had it gone on much longer I'm not sure how it would have turned out. I still had a tac squad in drop pod with melta/multi melta to come on, 2 dev squad with grav in rhinos, 2 razorbacks with TLAC, and 2 drop pods for what their worth. He had the Visarch an Yvraine with some black guardians, warlock, farseer, 2 3xscat bikes, 2 venoms with striking scorpions in them and that was it i believe.

I will say I was bleeding models. I lost 2 command squad, Libby, CM, 2 assault squad, 1 drop pod, razorback, and 5 man tac squad w/grav cannon. He lost d-scythes, wave serpant, Ycarne, 1 unit of scat bikes, and had a wound on his both his farseer/warlock with a few bodies missing from the black guardian squad.

Also, my CM went into a challenge with the visarch with 1 wound on my CM already. He survived the challenge and managed to drop the Visarch down to 1 wound. CM had arty armor and relic blade. I figured the Visarch would be a lot better at CC than he is considering DA aren't all that good at it. Who knew.

@ILegion

The Triumvirate isnt that good, play him again with a WK and having those other 300pts for scatbikes/warp spider

Melee knights charging turn 1, or D-cannons that can shoot 2x is extremely strong.

Haha oh I suggested something like that to him for the tournament. I also suggested he look into the WWP for the d-scythes instead of a wave serpent. Or, alternatively, maybe adding in a Riptide wing since he has a few of those lying around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On another note, I have a lot of grav deep striking in just for WK so I could probably 1 shot them on turn 1...just have to get ready for all the soul bursting if he's deployed right.

I really like the Kakophoni formation. Split fire is great for dealing with their MSU units. You can wipe out a whole wackload clustered together. Also, with their 3+ armor, 4+ feel no pain, they can ignore a lot of the damage from their no-scatter, deep-strike-on-first-turn scatter laser bikes and/or war-walkers.

Ive just played my first game with ynari and i allied in a riptide wing against my friends white scars with lots of grav and melta. He conceded turn 2, i wasnt even running an optimised list, i had wraithlords, no knight, no ycarne.. Performed really well, killed most of his bikes in his turn and it helps when your opponent doesnt know fully how to play against them. Im really reluctant at the moment to buy anything else for it until 8th drops as it all might change.

pilchard8 wrote:
Ive just played my first game with ynari and i allied in a riptide wing against my friends white scars with lots of grav and melta. He conceded turn 2, i wasnt even running an optimised list, i had wraithlords, no knight, no ycarne.. Performed really well, killed most of his bikes in his turn and it helps when your opponent doesnt know fully how to play against them. Im really reluctant at the moment to buy anything else for it until 8th drops as it all might change.

haha I think this is the wrong thread to gloat about your Ynari success

 ILegion wrote:


Also, my CM went into a challenge with the visarch with 1 wound on my CM already. He survived the challenge and managed to drop the Visarch down to 1 wound. CM had arty armor and relic blade. I figured the Visarch would be a lot better at CC than he is considering DA aren't all that good at it. Who knew.

in all fairness your CM shouldn't have survived the CC with the Visarch. unless you rolled well with your Invul

Magnus + Renagades and Heretics is a pretty good counter to Ynnari. I just won a 16-man tourney with my Reborn Host + Eldar CAD but only because I rolled a '6' to sieze in the final round and miraculously one-round killed Magnus before he could take flight. It took my whole army shooting at him to drop him.

He had Magnus, an E-Sorcerer in Scarab Occult unit with the Jump infantry relic, 2 Rubric units and a Purgation (name?) Formation that had 5 Earth Shaker cannons.
Even getting lucky and killing Magnus, I still lost over 1/3 of my army in his first round of shooting. If I had not Seized, I am sure Magnus would have mopped up the rest pretty handily in 1-2 turns. Instead of placing 1st, I wouldn't have placed at all.

Eldar, like most armies, do not have a good answer to Magnus in the air. And Earth Shaker artillery is terrifyling

-

If you plan to intercept WWP guy and retinue be sure to spread your interceptors around. If he puts something like Archon in front of the unit and it dies to interceptor fire the unit whatever it was that deep struck gets to soulburst. That means wraithguard essentially shoot twice no matter what. Spreading out allows you to intercept from multiple angles to lessen the incoming damage.

 Fueli wrote:
If you plan to intercept WWP guy and retinue be sure to spread your interceptors around. If he puts something like Archon in front of the unit and it dies to interceptor fire the unit whatever it was that deep struck gets to soulburst. That means wraithguard essentially shoot twice no matter what. Spreading out allows you to intercept from multiple angles to lessen the incoming damage.

Actually, they only get to shoot once, and only if the intercept that killed the Archon doesn't kill them too

For Example, WWP Archon with WG drop in to flame a Riptide. At least 2 Riptides can see the unit. The first RT intercepts and kills the Archon + some WG. Since you must fully resolve that intercept, the WG that die will not get to Soulburst ...because they're dead. But the remaining WG (if there are any) will still get to Soulburst once. Then the other Riptide intercepts and kills the rest. No shooting twice for them.

And as a Ynnari player, I can tell you that if I am forced to put the Archon in front to use his 2++, I will not be getting half as many templates on my intended target since I cannot place a template if it touches my own models. Ideally, I want the Archon in the center so that I can 4 templates at my target; being up front will mean only 2.
So in a way, that mitigates that. Although I would prefer Wraithcannons against Riptides, the D-scythe is the most likely weapon you will see with this tactic

-

my method so far is pretty much echoed above. use math, try to take units down to a few models. if I have a squad of 10 guardians coming at me then I try to thow them 6-8 casualties so they lose soul burst range but are not wiped immediately.

10 dire avengers shooting at them will net 13.2 hits and 8.712 wounds before any cover saves sure I might drop the whole unit but it is fairly unlikely to get that 10th down. esp if unti is in 5+ or 4+ cover 5+ means 5.7 down, 4+ means 4.35 down. (then battle focus run away from them or towards if something more threatening is near to flee from unless you wanted to chage the rest))

10 marines with bolters at non rapid fire range 6.6 hits 4.356 wounds before cover, if in rapid fire 8.712 like the DA above. if you manage to drop enough units around and can charge defiantly do)

 asdrubeal vect124 wrote:

 ILegion wrote:


Also, my CM went into a challenge with the visarch with 1 wound on my CM already. He survived the challenge and managed to drop the Visarch down to 1 wound. CM had arty armor and relic blade. I figured the Visarch would be a lot better at CC than he is considering DA aren't all that good at it. Who knew.

in all fairness your CM shouldn't have survived the CC with the Visarch. unless you rolled well with your Invul

I did actually roll pretty well with it.

 Galef wrote:

 Fueli wrote:
If you plan to intercept WWP guy and retinue be sure to spread your interceptors around. If he puts something like Archon in front of the unit and it dies to interceptor fire the unit whatever it was that deep struck gets to soulburst. That means wraithguard essentially shoot twice no matter what. Spreading out allows you to intercept from multiple angles to lessen the incoming damage.

Actually, they only get to shoot once, and only if the intercept that killed the Archon doesn't kill them too

For Example, WWP Archon with WG drop in to flame a Riptide. At least 2 Riptides can see the unit. The first RT intercepts and kills the Archon + some WG. Since you must fully resolve that intercept, the WG that die will not get to Soulburst ...because they're dead. But the remaining WG (if there are any) will still get to Soulburst once. Then the other Riptide intercepts and kills the rest. No shooting twice for them.

And as a Ynnari player, I can tell you that if I am forced to put the Archon in front to use his 2++, I will not be getting half as many templates on my intended target since I cannot place a template if it touches my own models. Ideally, I want the Archon in the center so that I can 4 templates at my target; being up front will mean only 2.
So in a way, that mitigates that. Although I would prefer Wraithcannons against Riptides, the D-scythe is the most likely weapon you will see with this tactic

-

People underestimate this, but it's been my experience as well. Earthshakers drop bike squads and basically every Ynnari troop or elite (if they catch that elite with anything less than Shrouded in cover) like a sack of dirt.

The two times I've played against them I've opted to just throw more bodies at them than anything. I was playing Pink Horrors so the biggest threat that a soulburst had was killing my small units of horrors and then the eldar shooting their actual target. Though sometimes they'd fail because of Invulnerable rolls so it was a win. I will say destroying a transport and then getting charged my the guys inside is really annoying (and if you can't do this let me know).

Though after the tournament and talking it over with people in my club, I think the best way to fight Ynnari is to just ask them to quote the rules to you, since lots of Ynnari players play them wrong and more OP than you'd expect (sometimes you just accept it because a certain amount of ridiculousness from Eldar seems believable).

 Galef wrote:

 Fueli wrote:
If you plan to intercept WWP guy and retinue be sure to spread your interceptors around. If he puts something like Archon in front of the unit and it dies to interceptor fire the unit whatever it was that deep struck gets to soulburst. That means wraithguard essentially shoot twice no matter what. Spreading out allows you to intercept from multiple angles to lessen the incoming damage.

Actually, they only get to shoot once, and only if the intercept that killed the Archon doesn't kill them too

For Example, WWP Archon with WG drop in to flame a Riptide. At least 2 Riptides can see the unit. The first RT intercepts and kills the Archon + some WG. Since you must fully resolve that intercept, the WG that die will not get to Soulburst ...because they're dead. But the remaining WG (if there are any) will still get to Soulburst once. Then the other Riptide intercepts and kills the rest. No shooting twice for them.

And as a Ynnari player, I can tell you that if I am forced to put the Archon in front to use his 2++, I will not be getting half as many templates on my intended target since I cannot place a template if it touches my own models. Ideally, I want the Archon in the center so that I can 4 templates at my target; being up front will mean only 2.
So in a way, that mitigates that. Although I would prefer Wraithcannons against Riptides, the D-scythe is the most likely weapon you will see with this tactic

-

Yeah, good points. At the time I learned they can do this I only had one Riptide in LoS/range whatever. My opponent didn't even run Shadowfield as to bait intercept fire to have his Wraithguard soulburst. And HBC doesn't have that great of a chance to kill multiple Wraithguard anyway. Also, I feel I should note that he was running Wraithcannons in this instance.