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Is the new pitch 40mm squares with 15x26 squares? I'm looking to build one but want the right dimensions

It isn't 40mm because big guys still have a little overlap.

The squares are close to the new base size, 32mm. Possible 1-2 mm wider.

The amount of squares is identical as before, but there are 1 square on each half that has a trapdoor. This square does not have any special rules yet, but GW may make some in the future.

Edit: My memory failed me, it should be 34mm, not 32mm.

Iirc the squares were said to be 34mm.

The size of the pitch doesn't matter, as long as you get the number of squares right. I made a 40mm pitch years back, (40mm is best mm) and I just had to apply the correct ratio to scale up the range ruler.

Drahken_40k wrote:
Is the new pitch 40mm squares

They're exactly 34mm (well, within 0.125mm).

with 15x26 squares?

Correct.

 feeder wrote:
The size of the pitch doesn't matter, as long as you get the number of squares right. I made a 40mm pitch years back, (40mm is best mm) and I just had to apply the correct ratio to scale up the range ruler.

You're right, but keep in mind the range ruler has changed now so throwing distances are not the same as before. With the throw distance grid, what's important is really just the width in regards to interceptions.

No, the ranges (in terms of squares) remain the same; the new range ruler has increased in proportion with the board.

If you play using the clear flexible template on the pitch from 3rd edition, or using the new plastic template on the current pitch, all throws will be the same. It is only a problem if you use the new pitch and old template or vice versa.

That is not according to the measures I've made:



Feel free to share your own measurements. So far my measurements show that the ranges are not the same, and that the range ruler has changed unproportional to the square size.

Every time I mention this the discussion turns silent however.

Baxx wrote:
That is not according to the measures I've made:



Feel free to share your own measurements. So far my measurements show that the ranges are not the same, and that the range ruler has changed unproportional to the square size.

Every time I mention this the discussion turns silent however.

That's interesting they've extended the ranges

The different ranges shouldn't matter as long as both teams are using the same template.

Looking at my templates, your diagram seems wrong; the second range band (short pass?) is only three squares long on both templates (well, three and a bit squares). You do get an extra square at the end of the Long Bomb section, though.

The templates aren't quite proportional, though. The original clear plastic one has sections that measure 10, 10, 10 and 7.9 cm (although if you line the end of the Long Bomb range - not the very end of the template!) up with the edge of a square and count back, the Quick Pass section begins partially in the thrower's square, so is really only 9.8cm). The new one is 11.8, 11.6, 11.6, 10.3.

The squares are 29mm and 34mm across respectively. The old template is thus 3.4, 3.4, 3.4, 2.7 squares (13 in total) while the new is 3.5, 3.4, 3.4, 3.0 squares (13.4 in total).

Going by the measurements of the old template, I assume that the squares on the 2nd edition "astrogranite" pitch were 25mm, which makes the ranges nice round numbers.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Looking at my templates, your diagram seems wrong; the second range band (short pass?) is only three squares long on both templates (well, three and a bit squares). You do get an extra square at the end of the Long Bomb section, though.

The templates aren't quite proportional, though. The original clear plastic one has sections that measure 10, 10, 10 and 7.9 cm (although if you line the end of the Long Bomb range - not the very end of the template!) up with the edge of a square and count back, the Quick Pass section begins partially in the thrower's square, so is really only 9.8cm). The new one is 11.8, 11.6, 11.6, 10.3.

The squares are 29mm and 34mm across respectively. The old template is thus 3.4, 3.4, 3.4, 2.7 squares (13 in total) while the new is 3.5, 3.4, 3.4, 3.0 squares (13.4 in total).

Going by the measurements of the old template, I assume that the squares on the 2nd edition "astrogranite" pitch were 25mm, which makes the ranges nice round numbers.

I just measured my ruler and my ranges agree EXCEPT that you missed out the small block at the start of the ruler (you place the little circle over the head of the model, yeah?). So that gives me ranges

135,116,116,106 mm

How do players normally handle checking the range? I've just read the rules again and realised it's a touch vague how you determine if someone is in range because it refers to the "players" not the square the player is in. And when determining a long bomb, does any part of the player have to be under the template to be in range or the entire model? I've always just counted it as being any part of the model, but the rule says if you overlap 2 ranges, use the longer range, does that mean if you're on the edge of the template you use the "longer" range which means out of range?

So that means to be within a certain range band, the relevant distance is the distance from the centre of the passing model's base to the (EDIT) back edge of the receiving model's base (assuming you use bases rather than "players" to determine ranges)?

I always just used from the centre of one model to the centre of the other but maybe I've been doing it wrong and overestimating my ranges.

EDIT: Said front edge when I meant back edge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, so if you assume what I said in the previous post (to make the distance, the entire base of the catcher must be within the template) and assume that the "head" of both the catcher and thrower are in the centre of a square, this is the throwing chart you end up with. It's pretty easy to make this in excel, the numbers just represent millimetres and I used conditional formatting to colour the squares depending on which range band they fell in to.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I just measured my ruler and my ranges agree EXCEPT that you missed out the small block at the start of the ruler (you place the little circle over the head of the model, yeah?). So that gives me ranges

135,116,116,106 mm

The circle should go over the centre of the throwing player's square. If he's throwing straight along a line of squares, the little points on the outer edge of the new template should line up with the edge of the square; that's where I measured from. I suppose that might make a slight difference on non-orthogonal passes, but that should only mean that the first range band is reduced by 7mm at worst if throwing down a diagonal (centre of square to centre of an edge is 34/2 = 17mm, centre of square to corner is sqrt(2)*34/2 = 24mm).

While Googling (unsuccessfully) for images of the previous clear floppy template, I found this Android app which will calculate the squares eligible for interception attempts:

http://www.cyberedelf.com/p/blood-bowl-interception-copyrights.html

I know nothing about it other than the fact it exists.

Looking at the rulebook (page 18):

"...placing the hole at one end over the centre of the square of the player throwing ... the line that runs up the centre of the ruler over the centre of the square the ball is being thrown to ...If the line between two passing ranges crosses any part of the receiving player's square ..."

The only possible confusing bit is that part about the receiving player, as it's already been established you can throw to an empty square if you want. To me, the intent of the rule is clear - throw to and from squares, not miniatures.

Ah ok, yeah, my excel program just calculates the distance from the centre of the thrower's square to the centre of the catcher's square and then adds half the base diameter, so that the range is from the centre of the thrower's square to the back of the catcher's base.

To be honest, counting squares seems annoying For short passes I guess it's fine, but it seems like a bit of a hassle for the longer range stuff where you have to count in the range of 8 to 14 squares in each direction. I guess it's only a problem if you play a team that's half decent at passing, most my teams don't even attempt passing beyond quick pass range


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Looking at the rulebook (page 18):

"...placing the hole at one end over the centre of the square of the player throwing ... the line that runs up the centre of the ruler over the centre of the square the ball is being thrown to ...If the line between two passing ranges crosses any part of the receiving player's square ..."

The only possible confusing bit is that part about the receiving player, as it's already been established you can throw to an empty square if you want. To me, the intent of the rule is clear - throw to and from squares, not miniatures.

I totally didn't even see that part, I was looking at page 7...

"When you are instructed to measure the range, place the 'o' at one end over the head of the player throwing the ball... If the receiving player overlaps a boundary line between two ranges on the ruler, use the longer of the two choices."

I should have known being GW they would have the same bloody rule written in 2 places with different wordings

I could modify my excel program to account for being at the edge of the square rather than the edge of the base, but I can't really be bothered as I imagine most people are just going to use the app anyway

I'll double check the ranges later. There's been some confusion about how to measure, the correct measurement seems to be to put the hole on the center of the thrower square and then measure to the back of the catcher's square.

The model or base size is irrelevant in all rule aspects of the game.

Thanks for an interesting discussion. It is not very important as long as both players use the same ranges/rules, but I find it interesting to compare any changes to game.

It doesn't specify where in the target square to measure to, but since it says "If the line between two passing ranges crosses any part of the receiving player's square then use the longer of the two ranges", measuring to the farthest point in the target square gives you that end result.

The rules on page 7 are the basic "intro" rules; really they should be a separate booklet. I suppose that most of the time, the thrower's head will be sufficiently close to the centre of his square that it won't matter.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The rules on page 7 are the basic "intro" rules; really they should be a separate booklet. I suppose that most of the time, the thrower's head will be sufficiently close to the centre of his square that it won't matter.

The main difference is if you use "player" rather than "square" for the receiving player you can end up with a slightly different range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, here's the chart updated so that it represents the ENTIRE SQUARE having to be within a range band for it to be considered in that range band. Not a hell of a lot different, just a few mm different here and there.

FWIW, I think this is the first time I've ever used vector mathematics in my day to day life outside of work/study Needed it to project the vector from the centre of the thrower's square to the corner of the receiver's square on to the vector from the centre of the throwers square to the centre of the receiver's square.

The "old" image was widely accepted under CRP, and GW have stated that there is no change for BB16. The "new" image measures wrongly, including squares that are not fully covered, and while the maths in the later posts is awesome, it is still the "old" image that is used exclusively in NAF tournaments. Leagues are obviously free to interpret the rules however they like!