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Made in us
Commoragh-bound Peer





do you think the game roles will become a pdf like in aos or the unit rules?
¨
if so is it even worth buying a new codex?
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




I would expect an app and downloadable content. Maybe they'll put out books for fluff once and a while

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Commoragh-bound Peer





Naaris wrote:
I would expect an app and downloadable content. Maybe they'll put out books for fluff once and a while


yeah like aos.

i think im going to collect mini first until its settled and and see if i even need a codex.

because there's a rule page on the instruction manual in the boxes right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 20:22:15


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

I really REALLY hope they make all the rule available in hard copy. I know digital stuff is great for some people, but there is nothing like holding a actual book in your hands.
I've also never met anyone who can scroll to a rule faster than I can flip to its page.

If all the codices become invalid like AoS did to Fantasy, GW better put out physical books soon and for much cheaper than the current books.

My instinct is that they will not repeat this mistake with 40k and that all the books they have been putting out recently will stay valid. Since we aren't even sure when 8th ed will come out yet, I think it's safe to buy a single codex if you are starting out, but I would recommend against a huge multi-codex project for the time being

-

   
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 Galef wrote:
I really REALLY hope they make all the rule available in hard copy. I know digital stuff is great for some people, but there is nothing like holding a actual book in your hands.
I've also never met anyone who can scroll to a rule faster than I can flip to its page.

If all the codices become invalid like AoS did to Fantasy, GW better put out physical books soon and for much cheaper than the current books.

My instinct is that they will not repeat this mistake with 40k and that all the books they have been putting out recently will stay valid. Since we aren't even sure when 8th ed will come out yet, I think it's safe to buy a single codex if you are starting out, but I would recommend against a huge multi-codex project for the time being

-


Agreed.

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 Galef wrote:
I really REALLY hope they make all the rule available in hard copy. I know digital stuff is great for some people, but there is nothing like holding a actual book in your hands.
I've also never met anyone who can scroll to a rule faster than I can flip to its page.

If all the codices become invalid like AoS did to Fantasy, GW better put out physical books soon and for much cheaper than the current books.

My instinct is that they will not repeat this mistake with 40k and that all the books they have been putting out recently will stay valid. Since we aren't even sure when 8th ed will come out yet, I think it's safe to buy a single codex if you are starting out, but I would recommend against a huge multi-codex project for the time being

-


but they come with rules when i buy them? so if i decide to get the dark eldar codex and i'm feeling like getting some allies so i dont need to get a whole new codex for some units.
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

At first no. But as time goes on books like codexes will appear adding formations etc.

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From the sound of what was on the Warhammer Community page this week it'll be new books either way as they talked about bring back movement values for units and something that sounds a lot like AOS rending to replace the current AP system. Whether it's as extreme as the change to AOS or just a slimmed down version of the current bloated rules, we'll have to see.

If you want to game with a new army soon then bit the bullet and get the current book. If you happy to wait a bit (as rumours say 8th is this year) then I'd hold off an stick with those armies you already have match ready or borrow the codex you need for now.
   
Made in us
Commoragh-bound Peer





ScarVet101 wrote:
From the sound of what was on the Warhammer Community page this week it'll be new books either way as they talked about bring back movement values for units and something that sounds a lot like AOS rending to replace the current AP system. Whether it's as extreme as the change to AOS or just a slimmed down version of the current bloated rules, we'll have to see.

If you want to game with a new army soon then bit the bullet and get the current book. If you happy to wait a bit (as rumours say 8th is this year) then I'd hold off an stick with those armies you already have match ready or borrow the codex you need for now.


okay thanks.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 eddesb wrote:

but they come with rules when i buy them? so if i decide to get the dark eldar codex and i'm feeling like getting some allies so i dont need to get a whole new codex for some units.

Not all kits come with rules, only the kits released in the last 6 months or so. Kits released before this (which is most of them) do not have rules.
Plus, how are are you going to know if you like a unit enough to buy and play it if you don't see the rules first?
You can only get so lucky buy the models you like the look of. Eventually you will want units that have good rules, even if you aren't enchanted by their aesthetics, and vice versa, you may end up shelving models that you like because they disappoint you on the table.

Plus, the rules that some kits come with only tell you their stat lines and special rules, with a few like the Get Started boxes giving formations. The codex will have Warlord tables, psychic disciplines, special detachments, relics and loads of other rules that GW will never put in the model kits.

ScarVet101 wrote:
From the sound of what was on the Warhammer Community page this week it'll be new books either way as they talked about bring back movement values for units and something that sounds a lot like AOS rending to replace the current AP system. Whether it's as extreme as the change to AOS or just a slimmed down version of the current bloated rules, we'll have to see.

Adding Movement rates to existing units would not necessarily mean all the books need to be replaced. Vehicles used to not have Hull Points and the edition that introduced them had a index in the book with all the Vehicle stat lines including HPs. So while the individual codices were updated 1 by 1 over the course of the edition, codices that had not yet been updated were still valid and you just added the new stat.

-

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/03/24 21:14:57


   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

Though, if they are doing a full AOS treatment, which seems more and more likely to me (and I always thought it was probable)........man, they have a TON of work to do.

I mean, rewriting every single codex and unit, not to mention forgeworld, and adapting and condensing special rules to work with a theoretical new AOS-y ruleset seems almost herculean.

I know they did it was fantasy to AOS, but I'm fairly certain 40k (and forgeworld) has a lot more units and codexes than 8th ed fantasy did.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 21:08:57


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Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

I know they did it was fantasy to AOS, but I'm fairly certain 40k (and forgeworld) has a lot more units and codexes than 8th ed fantasy did.

Even ignoring that FW exists (which GW seems to do often) 40K has at least twice as many units now and Fantasy 8th ed had prior to AoS. And that included the plethora of kits they released for End Times.
The scariest thing about AoS is that many kits (and even Factions) never received rules and were simply phased out.

   
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 Galef wrote:

If all the codices become invalid like AoS did to Fantasy, GW better put out physical books soon and for much cheaper than the current books.

My instinct is that they will not repeat this mistake with 40k and that all the books they have been putting out recently will stay valid. Since we aren't even sure when 8th ed will come out yet, I think it's safe to buy a single codex if you are starting out, but I would recommend against a huge multi-codex project for the time being



This is why 40k is in the mess it's in. Trying to make everything backwards compatible keeps the pre-existing mess intact and adds more problems.

40k needs a big reset button pressing. An improved version of AoS or a new system is what is needed. People will complain about all their existing books being invalid, but they're all good little GW customers and will lap up the new stuff within a month or two and say it's the best version ever.

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 Galef wrote:

The scariest thing about AoS is that many kits (and even Factions) never received rules and were simply phased out.


Some models had rules, like Gorbad Ironclaw, and the models were phased out regardless.

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I think it will have to be just like the AoS roll out: basic unit rules will have to be included in the boxes and available online for free.

You will have to wait for new Codeci to get formations or buy their rules on the app.

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Alaska

You might look for a used Codex on eBay. That's what I've been doing. That way you won't be out as much money if they change everything soon.

They have value for their art, fluff and painting tips, not just the rules.

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I suspect it will be more of what has been published over the past year.

Supplemental books that advance the story line in bits and pieces including new scenarios, campaigns, and unit and formation rules. They've already started moving away from army books with their focus on factions.

What would be nice is a hard rules anthology of sorts. Something that compiles all the current rules and units for a faction in one place and is released somewhat regularly. But I think thats basically what the General's Handbook is isn't it?

   
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 LordofHats wrote:
I suspect it will be more of what has been published over the past year.

Supplemental books that advance the story line in bits and pieces including new scenarios, campaigns, and unit and formation rules. They've already started moving away from army books with their focus on factions.

What would be nice is a hard rules anthology of sorts. Something that compiles all the current rules and units for a faction in one place and is released somewhat regularly. But I think thats basically what the General's Handbook is isn't it?
Funnily enough if it works like AoS you'll get both.

Even the Battletomes advance the storyline in some way or discuss current events going on in the universe a bit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/25 08:31:39


 
   
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Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

Am I just making stuff up or do I remember that AoS first released a set of generic unit rules, and then over time added specific rules for specific units?
So for 40k the base game might include 'light infantry' (~GEQ) and 'heavy infantry' (~MEQ) with assault and shooting variants.
Then over time add in more specific rules for the units we all know and love.
   
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 Galef wrote:
Eventually you will want units that have good rules, even if you aren't enchanted by their aesthetics,


Can you tell me when I should expect this to happen? I've been playing for 26 years now, but it should be soon, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
Am I just making stuff up or do I remember that AoS first released a set of generic unit rules, and then over time added specific rules for specific units?
So for 40k the base game might include 'light infantry' (~GEQ) and 'heavy infantry' (~MEQ) with assault and shooting variants.
Then over time add in more specific rules for the units we all know and love.


When Age of Sigmar was released, they released PDFs of new rules for every model available at the time, grouped like the 8th edition Army books were. As new Battletomes were released, they replaced those PDFs (High Elves were replaced by the Eldritch Council, Lion Rangers, Order Draconis, etc). The rules for thoe are available as PDFs of the individual pages from the unit entry on the website, or you can buy the actual physical book and get the unit rules, the battalion rules and all the scenarios and whatnot. If 40k is going the same way, I expect the same thing to happen.

As it happens, I'm still using the "get you by" High Elves PDF when I play Age of Sigmar, because I've not bought any new miniatures since Island of Blood came out. The rules are the same as the ones on the website now, anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/25 09:23:57


 
   
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Bristol (UK)

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Am I just making stuff up or do I remember that AoS first released a set of generic unit rules, and then over time added specific rules for specific units?
So for 40k the base game might include 'light infantry' (~GEQ) and 'heavy infantry' (~MEQ) with assault and shooting variants.
Then over time add in more specific rules for the units we all know and love.


When Age of Sigmar was released, they released PDFs of new rules for every model available at the time, grouped like the 8th edition Army books were. As new Battletomes were released, they replaced those PDFs (High Elves were replaced by the Eldritch Council, Lion Rangers, Order Draconis, etc). The rules for thoe are available as PDFs of the individual pages from the unit entry on the website, or you can buy the actual physical book and get the unit rules, the battalion rules and all the scenarios and whatnot. If 40k is going the same way, I expect the same thing to happen.

As it happens, I'm still using the "get you by" High Elves PDF when I play Age of Sigmar, because I've not bought any new miniatures since Island of Blood came out. The rules are the same as the ones on the website now, anyway.

Ah okay, I'm making stuff up then
Wonder where I heard you just got generic unit stats from.
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Why do people keep saying 40k is getting Age of Sigmared?

Is the player base really that young these days that no one remembers 2nd ed? These changes are almost all revisions back to 2nd ed 40k. Which kinda fits with Armageddon having 'necromunda' rules.

I think a hard rules reset would be good and better digital integration with books for those that want them. a massive 'Imperium' tomb would be awesome.
   
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Well, I'm trying to forget 2nd ed. It was a total dumpster fire.
   
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UK

AOS Battle Tomes and General's Handbooks are IMO better quality in terms of value and content many of the 7th ed codexes.

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Hamburg

In 40k the codices and supplementary books have a high price. The price doesn't anything about the value of the content other than being GW's IP. GW seems to make a lot of money with their books and so I guess we will see no change here.

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Upstate, New York

 wuestenfux wrote:
In 40k the codices and supplementary books have a high price. The price doesn't anything about the value of the content other than being GW's IP. GW seems to make a lot of money with their books and so I guess we will see no change here.


They may make a lot of money on the expensive books, but they also act as a barrier to new players trying to get into the game. Or old players starting new armies.

I’d guess that the increase in miniatures sales due to ease of access would outweigh the loss in sales for rulebooks, but it would take some real numbers and research to get a solid answer. Some people would still want the dead tree version. I know there is a certain allure there.

AoS is using this model now, so I’m guessing that someone at GW can actually look at numbers and make the call.

   
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

It depends. The problem with 40k is they have a ton of codexes and supplements that cost the same for some strange reason, so you can end up spending hundreds just on books.

AOS the battletomes were at first the same price, but more for fluff and battalions only, since the warscrolls were free. Ever since Sylvaneth though they became more like codexes/army books in that they also include special things (i.e. allegiance abilities and artifacts) which make them more "necessary" to buy. The price is also fluctuating, in that the Tzeentch book was around $35, and the Stormcast book was $40 because it had 5 more pages.

So yes, I think codexes will stick around like the new version of Battletomes: Not 100% necessary to play, but something you definitely want to pick up. It's my hope that they keep the base stats freely available so you don't HAVE to buy the codex just to play.

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Gathering the Informations.

 Galef wrote:
I really REALLY hope they make all the rule available in hard copy. I know digital stuff is great for some people, but there is nothing like holding a actual book in your hands.
I've also never met anyone who can scroll to a rule faster than I can flip to its page.

If all the codices become invalid like AoS did to Fantasy, GW better put out physical books soon and for much cheaper than the current books.

My instinct is that they will not repeat this mistake with 40k and that all the books they have been putting out recently will stay valid. Since we aren't even sure when 8th ed will come out yet, I think it's safe to buy a single codex if you are starting out, but I would recommend against a huge multi-codex project for the time being

-

That was why GW, for AoS, did the "Grand Alliance" books fairly quick, in paperback, and at not unreasonable prices.
   
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im still getting a codex for de. it feels better with a book in your hand but its too late to get a rule book right?
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






 Nevelon wrote:

They may make a lot of money on the expensive books, but they also act as a barrier to new players trying to get into the game. Or old players starting new armies.

I’d guess that the increase in miniatures sales due to ease of access would outweigh the loss in sales for rulebooks,


It should. Lots of people would love to paint up a few units from a certain army (maybe as allies), but dropping the $$$ for those huge, heavy codices isn't worth it. Books become obsolete a lot faster than the miniatures do, and people know it.

   
 
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