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Idea behind the list is to abuse turn 1 rerollable 2+ cover saves on multiple daemon weapon DPs to ensure they get into assault. If going second they may have to rely on 3+ cover with rerolls of 1 for an extra turn, which still gives them decent durability. The Renegades are there to provide needed fire support and a couple of cheap spawn units.

Murder Talon
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
Wings, Stormbolt Plate
(Warlord. This DP is the only one without a Daemon Weapon but has a continuous 2+ cover and also a 2+ armour. Will probably roll on the personal warlord trait)

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
Wings, Black Mace, Power Armour
(Basically the traditional DP of Nurgle with Black Mace but due to NL and Tzeetch his cover is re rollable.)

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
Wings, Talons of the Night Terror, Power Armour
(Whilst not technically a Daemon Weapon, on a DP it basically is one for all intents and purposes minus the downside of rolling a 1.)

Daemon Prince of Khorne
Wings, Axe of Blind Fury, Power Armour
(Does not get the reroll on his saves but still has a 2+ cover turn 1 and 3+ cover after.)

Raptortalon
Chaos Lord
Jump pack (free), Claws of the Black Hunt, Sigil of Corruption

5 Raptors
2 Melta, Combi-Melta, Melta bombs

5 Raptors
2 Melta, Combi-Melta, Melta bombs

5 Raptors
2 Melta, Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs

1 Spawn

Renegades - Purge Detachment
Arch Demagogue (with Rapiers)
4 Disciples
Lascannon

3 spawn

3 spawn

3 Rapier Laser Destroyers
Militia training, +3 extra crew

1 Wyvern

1849pts

Aside from ignore cover grav, there isn't too much at range to worry the DPs. Plus with their mobility they should be picking their targets. The Rapiers and Melta should be able to knock enough HPs off a Knight for the Khorne Prince to mulch it in assault, may even be able to pull it off against a second Knight but 3 Knights will be an issue. The Khorne and Black Mace DPs can easily double team a Wraithknight and all of them should be able to either deal with a riptide or lock one up until another one can come along to help out. A little worried however about TWC and Wraiths.

What's your thoughts?

I like it=).

Only issue is, you have absolut notthing against psycic powers, but maybe your list is fast enough to handle this.

You also could play 2 Heldrakes and kick the Renegades, but only if you want (the rapiers are also really strong).

I also would kick Claws from the Chaoslord and maybe the sigil. If he sits in a Raptor unit, as i assume, he will also be easily killed. 5 Bodies to Save him and only 3+ Armour and 4++ won't keep him alive for long. Also which targets would you like to attack with him and his unit? If they use their Meltas on a vehicle the claws are wasted in combat and if you attack meq s the claws are overkill imo.

Would only give him a poweraxe or vox daemonicus and use him two keep the melta guys alive as long as possible.

Remember that you could throw in a few Sisters of Silence in Rhinos to your list, rush them up, boost to get within range of their psykers.

That gives them one turn where they can't use their psychic powers. Second turn, you charge. Bonus points if you take someone who will probably seize the initiative.

All this will not matter in a few months when the new edition drops, though, so spending a fortune on models that will probably not work the same way might not be the best idea. If you just like the models, though, go nuts.

Thanks :-).
Good point on the Lord... originally I was thinking he would be able to go after MSU meq squads, but then the Melta from the Raptors won't be being put to best use, and thinking about it - all 4 DPs excel in that roll anyway. If I drop the Sigil and Claws for just an axe, he will be pretty points efficient rolling in at a mere 80pts. Also gives me 50 pts to play with. If I drop the Disciples Lascannon down to an Autocannon that will now be 60pts... which is enough for 2 Renegade Quad Mortars or another Wyvern and Melta bombs on the Lord or an Earthshaker and Melta bombs on the Lord. Orrrr could drop the Autocannon altogether thus giving 70pts which will be enough for another set of Rapiers with Militia training... Hmmmm the options :-D
What would you go for?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ghorros wrote:
Remember that you could throw in a few Sisters of Silence in Rhinos to your list, rush them up, boost to get within range of their psykers.

That gives them one turn where they can't use their psychic powers. Second turn, you charge. Bonus points if you take someone who will probably seize the initiative.

All this will not matter in a few months when the new edition drops, though, so spending a fortune on models that will probably not work the same way might not be the best idea. If you just like the models, though, go nuts.

Thanks. Never used or played Sisters of Silence as they dropped after I'd moved countries and stopped playing properly, but will have to investigate :-).
With the above list I already have the Renegades, and 3 of the DPs, so would only need 1 DP and the Raptors. Oh and a spare Raptor JP to convert one of my Lords. I honestly hope they don't nerf DPs in the new edition though as I bloody love all the different models I've seen - I think I've seen more DP conversions than Ork Trukk conversions!

Hm good question^^. Unfortunately i don't have any Renegades and don't play them. But Wyverns and Rapiers are always good imo =).

You can also spam more Spawns, as they are hard to kill and really fast, use them to grab objectives and the rest of your army attacks the enemy lines.

You also can uprade 3 of your DPs to ML 1 so they can better deny the witch and use a bit of Tzeentch Magic (although the spelllore isn't that good).

More spawns could be another good idea. But thinking about the Purge bonus of blasts staying in place a turn and counting as dangerous terrain, Im thinking that it may be better to capitalise on that with the two quad mortars. Then the list will be able to put down 3 locations of dangerous terrain a turn. This will help win the mobility war since the rest of the list is very fast. Also means the Disciples can still take an autocannon to take advantage of their BS4 and be of some use.
Personally I think the Tzeentch table has to be one of the worst psychic tables in the entire game (ironically) so would probably stay away from putting on single mastery levels.

Don't know what the quad mortars do, but if you think they work try them out^^.

Yeah the Tzeentch discipline sucks, but the ML upgrade is for better denying the witch. Cause otherwise you also deny witchfires on the 6 and some good old psycic shrieks can really mess you up . (My prince got bombed away today and another one also, but he saved all wounds with is invulnerable save XD).

Btw here is my list, but notice it's only 1500 points and no renegades^^.

Night Lords Murder Talon:

Command:

DP of Tzeentch (flight, armour, black mace)
DP of Tzeentch (flight, armour, stormbolt plate)
DP of Tzeentch (flight, armour, Talons of the Nightterror)
DP of Khorne (flight, armour, Axe of blind fury)

Raptor Talon:

Chaoslord (Jumppack, Meltabombs, Poweraxe)
3x5 Raptors (Champ with Meltabombs, 2x Meltas each)

Auxilary:

2x1 Spawn

Total: 1500 points

Played this against Grey Knights in an Maelstrom and Eternal War mixed Mission today (Relic + Maelstrom were you draw 3 cards in the beginning and when you have less than 3 cards and your oponnent can't see your cards)

His list:

Nemesisstrike Force
Librarian (Hammer, ML3)
Librarion (Hammer; ML3
Draigo
5 Terminators (4 Helebards)
Dreadknight (Greatsword, Flamer, Psibolter, Teleporter)
Dreadknight (Hammer, Psibolter, Teleporter)

Imperial Knight Detachment
1 Imperial Knight Paladin

Was a hard match, but i won on Maelstrom and he had the Relic and some Maelstrom points (13:8 my win).

First Round he nearly killed my Black Mace Prince with a Psycic Shriek. 5 Wounds on the Prince, but he saved all wounds with 5s and 6s on his daemon save =).

My Raptors were quickly reduced to lots of 1 or 2 man squads, but they got me some Maelstrompoints and my Raptor Lord and his Squad killed the Imperial Knight in Closecombat with Meltabombs. (Two Explosion Results with the Meltabombs).

My Princes only killed one Dreadknight and the other dread got killed with Meltas and a Charge from the Talon DP and the Raptorlord with his last raptor. The Dreadknight killed theTalon DP instantly but my Raptorlord killed the dread with his poweraxe ^^.

Turn 5 we ended the Game, cause i was really far ahead and my oponent only had 3 or 4 maelstrom points and the relic.


Reflection of the army:

The DPs are good, but never assault into difficult terrain or they get killed really fast.
Raptors are also good and the Meltas can open all kinds of units
The Spawn are only good for distraction and can be abused as overwatch shields.

Niiiiice! You tried it out :-D! Glad to hear it worked well!
Yeh I can see how psychic shriek can definitely cause a problem there. If taking mastery levels, 2 would probably be better so they can take psychic shriek themselves. Would need to look for 150pts for that though.
Killing a dreadknight with a Poweraxe Lord must have been a wicked feeling ;-)!
Tbh it looks like he took a pretty solid list so I'm happy to see it worked out well for you!
How did the Khorne Prince fare with less durability but greater damage output?
Do you think more Spawn would lead to them being more useful than just a distraction from your experience in that battle?
Quad Mortars are 30pts a piece and shoot 4 st5 ap5 barrage blasts, in a Purge detachment they also leave behind their blasts for a turn to count as dangerous terrain. They come with 2 crew so have 4 T7 3+ wounds.

Thank you=).

Yeah if you can get some points, that would be a good upgrade for the princes.

Yeah it was, but it would have been never happened if i only charged him with the lord. So i sacrificed my DP and the lord finished the Dreadknight of.

Hm the Khorneprince did have the exact same durability outside the rerolling ones (as all DPs have a 3+ coversave, 4 from jink and anohter +1 from stealth =3 + cover). Unfortunately the Khorne DP did nothing the whole game and died as he was shot from all sides.

Hm maybe, but they are also good as distraction, they can easily grab objectives and can finish weak units of or bind them for a while, so they can't shoot.

Ahhh gutted to hear that about the Khorne DP. He definitely made the right target priority shooting him though.
Yeh (apart from turn 1 where everyone gets a 2+ cover due to Murder Talon benefits) I suppose they all have the same cover save not including the rerolls. Although even with the re rolls of 1 on a 3+ will mean a Tzeentch DP will save 7/9ths compared to 6/9ths out of combat... so maybe not that much extra durability thinking about it.
I'm really happy to hear that you trialled it out against a strong list! Thanks for that! :-D

Yeah he nearly killed him in the first round, not rerolling 1s on one DP, makes him target number one =(.

Haha no problem, i wanted to try this list since a few weeks but never had the oportunity for it.

Luckily we decided to play a game yesterday and i finally could test it out^^.

Great minds think alike ;-). Can you PM me if you play the list again in the future with your future results and how you've thought to perfect it?

Cheers!

Sure, if i can try it again .

Also post your ideas and results in here^^.

Sure will but results will be a while in coming as I won't be back in the UK until July (where most my models are). Will probably EBay another DP and some Raptors for when I get back so won't have to worry about assembly and painting though and can get right back into it straight away.

One thing that did come to mind was the fact that Turn1, Murder Talon NL spawn benefit from a 5+ cover, considering they are beasts too, it means that on a terrain heavy board they become generally more tough than a Nurgle Spawn before they reach assault (easy enough to get a 3+ or even 2+ cover). Not sure if that makes them more valuable than 55pt for 3 Renegade Spawn though.
Another one is the NL Lord on bike will get a 2+ cover turn1 so with Claws of the Black Hunt, he could be very nasty, especially in the aforementioned Spawn unit (Or a bike unit who will also benefit from a 2+ jink turn 1). It's just a pity NLs can't take marks as the combos could be very good.
Another idea is taking a cheap Murder Talon to grant T1 stealth to allies which would work well on other DPs, bikes and Dreadclaws. Searchlights could easily spoil that though.