Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just been reminded about this following discourse with Frazz.

It's a favourite topic of mine, because there are no right answers, only interesting ones.

So, here's the basic premise.

Romero style Zombies (slow, must destroy the brain to stop them, you don't need to be bitten to turn, but a single bite can prove fatal) are real. In which historical time period do you feel the still living human race have the best chance of survival - and importantly, why?

My take? Probably the Dark Ages.

First and foremost, ancestor worship had mostly died off - so less chance of seeing the Undead as the fulfilment of some religious promise.

Second? Populations were more scattered, so I'd argue you wouldn't get the massive hordes that usually spell doom - the density just isn't there.

Third? Your Peasants were agricultural workers - that means some decent physical endurance, even if there isn't the best of overall health/high life expectancy. It also means the majority of the populace would have at least one tool which could be used as a basic bludgeon, and some skill in wielding it.

Fourth? Castles. Go on Mr Zombie. Get into that...

Downsides?

More or less complete lack of communication. Word of the happening would be exceptionally slow to spread - so although populations were far less dense, the Zombies could disperse quite widely before any organised resistance could be arranged. This could potentially cause the outbreak to go on over a long old time.

That health thing. Sure, your Peasants are used to a life of hard graft - but they don't eat right. And time spent dealing with Zombies isn't time spent in the fields - causing famine, and a higher death toll. Therefore even more Zombies.

The Church. No religion bashing here, but at the time desecration of a corpse was not to be done at all. Ever. Coupled with the lack of communication, that's a serious hazard, even if the Bishops/Cardinals etc decided 'yes, but it doesn't apply to Walking Corpses'

Hygiene - Preeeeetttttty much non-existent.

Wildlife - if Wolves and Bears etc can feast without detriment on the Zombies, numbers could grow to unmanageably dangerous levels, giving you something else to worry about.

I would just like to point out.

Evidence has come to light that shows that medieval people might actually cut up bodies to prevent them from rising fromthe grave.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/04/02/zombie-invasion-fears-medieval-yorkshire-villagers-mutilated/

That's what inspired this thread being raised again

I think I remember watching something on the History Channel, or one of those similar channels, about the origin of headstones in graveyards.. they would be placed on top of where the person's head was underground, so that they won't be able to sit up and climb out of their graves. People didn't use them to write who was buried there till much later, but maybe they just didn't know how to write their names back then?

I wouldn't count castles as a straight 'pro'. Imagine what happens if a big horde does end up forming outside one of them, and you're trapped in there. Suddenly, you've got a siege where the attackers don't care about supplies, weather, or anything at all except getting at the tasty people in the giant building right in front of them. Sure, they're probably not getting in.

But you're not getting out, either.

 Spinner wrote:
I wouldn't count castles as a straight 'pro'. Imagine what happens if a big horde does end up forming outside one of them, and you're trapped in there. Suddenly, you've got a siege where the attackers don't care about supplies, weather, or anything at all except getting at the tasty people in the giant building right in front of them. Sure, they're probably not getting in.

But you're not getting out, either.

Dig a tunnel.

 Spinner wrote:
I wouldn't count castles as a straight 'pro'. Imagine what happens if a big horde does end up forming outside one of them, and you're trapped in there. Suddenly, you've got a siege where the attackers don't care about supplies, weather, or anything at all except getting at the tasty people in the giant building right in front of them. Sure, they're probably not getting in.

But you're not getting out, either.

Lower the Portcullis, lower the drawbridge, take as much time as you need stabbing them in the noggin. Even in modern numbers, I doubt they'd have the mass to cause the walls to topple, so the gate is your only weak point (provided no plonker leaves the sally ports open...)

I think we ourselves would do very well in the Nowadays. Our infrastructures are actually extremely resilient - post apoc fantasies are just that: fantasy. Plus we have a solid, widespread understanding of things like infection and decay. Romero zombones are just not much of a threat. Let em shamble around until they disintegrate. TBF to Romero, he understood this and (initially) depicted the threat as largely psychological rather than logistical, with the rednecks more than able to organize effective countermeasures within 24 hours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spinner wrote:
a siege where the attackers don't care about [...] weather

Ah they may not care but weather is pretty important. Frozen zombie = zero threat. Wet zombies = faster decay. The biggest problem facing medievals would be something they did struggle with IRL - disposing of a huge amount of rotting corpses before disease got out of control.

Would a few Zombies even stand a chance against a knight in full plate armor? A couple knights with maces could keep a small horde at bay for a while.

Would a few Zombies even stand a chance against [any competent adult human]? No.

Depends entirely on the environment.

Britain in the Middle Ages was of course far more heavily forested than the modern day.

So on one hand, lots of places for Zombies to stay relatively out of sight. On the other, arguably places to escape up for a reprieve.

Right, next person with the next historical setting.

Max Brooks has the Romans doing superbly against zombies in Britain. They just dig a trench, bait the zombies in, then set them on fire.

Which book is that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Would a few Zombies even stand a chance against a knight in full plate armor? A couple knights with maces could keep a small horde at bay for a while.

Downside there is exhaustion. Once you're tired out (and full plate means that happens surprisingly quickly) you're at risk.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Which book is that?

The first one, the Survival Guide. He has an appendix of zombie outbreaks through history.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Would a few Zombies even stand a chance against a knight in full plate armor? A couple knights with maces could keep a small horde at bay for a while.

Downside there is exhaustion. Once you're tired out (and full plate means that happens surprisingly quickly) you're at risk.

I'm sure you could try and do the thing they did in WWZ where they had a firing line and when one man got tired, he went and talked with a chaplain and got food or shut eye and someone else stepped up and took his place, but with knights instead of riflemen and a priest instead of a chaplain. I'm not saying the knights would engage a horde without back up, but they could hold one back for a short time.

Manchu wrote:
Max Brooks has the Romans doing superbly against zombies in Britain. They just dig a trench, bait the zombies in, then set them on fire.

Wait...what? What is this from (senses a new reading opportunity). I thought WWZ was fun.

I suddenly have images of Leonidas and the 300 holding Thermopylae against the zombie Persians.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Would a few Zombies even stand a chance against a knight in full plate armor? A couple knights with maces could keep a small horde at bay for a while.

Downside there is exhaustion. Once you're tired out (and full plate means that happens surprisingly quickly) you're at risk.

I'm sure you could try and do the thing they did in WWZ where they had a firing line and when one man got tired, he went and talked with a chaplain and got food or shut eye and someone else stepped up and took his place, but with knights instead of riflemen and a priest instead of a chaplain. I'm not saying the knights would engage a horde without back up, but they could hold one back for a short time.

Weren't most towns and villages at least have a wall? They might do quite well indeed, given zombie numbers would be limited.

 Frazzled wrote:
Wait...what? What is this from (senses a new reading opportunity).

Appendix to Zombie Survival Guide, the book that started the "outbreak."

How would the ancient Egyptians react to a zombie outbreak? I can't imagine them not looking at zombies and saying "we definitely pissed off Anubis." Would they actually attack them or try to sacrifice anything they can to get them to go away?

Hard to see zombies making it very long in the desert.

Manchu wrote:
Max Brooks has the Romans doing superbly against zombies in Britain. They just dig a trench, bait the zombies in, then set them on fire.

I could see the Romans doing well against a horde of zombies. Theres a reason the Romans rules as well as they did for as long as they did. Certainly no zombie infestation would scare them off. Now the real question is, why hasnt there been a Roman zombie movie made yet?!?

I could see the Romans using the zombies as shield and skirmishers.

"Look commander Varius! There's thousands of Germans in the trees! Its an ambush! "

"Excellent, loose the zombie slaves among them and follow behind in tortoise formation"

From Epic Victories of Rome: The Defeat of Arminius in the Black Forest.

Romans:

Pro: Highly trained and effective military, brutal enough to be little bothered about hacking their way through their own people. The Legions did a lot of "bad" things to a lot of people with our without orders.

Pro: Logistics - they actually have them.

Con: Much higher population density than say the medieval period - especially in places like Rome - this means much larger outbreaks.

Con: They are pretty superstitious

Didn't the Romans burn their dead? That would cut down on the corpsicles in a Romero scenario.

But yea, if the breakout occurred in Rome itself...yerg.

Why wasn't platemail listed in the initial "pros" column. Tin can that zombies aren't getting into. Worst case you get buried and turtle up.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Why wasn't platemail listed in the initial "pros" column. Tin can that zombies aren't getting into. Worst case you get buried and turtle up.

You get tired or something along those lines. I suggested that knights take turns bashing heads so that doesn't become an issue.

Plate is also a bit of a liability when it comes to grappling. Your movements are more restricted, and it provides lots of convenient hand holds for a wily opponent. Or one that doesn't feel pain or suffer from any injury beyond a stoved in head. After that. It's proper limbs ripping off Zombie fun!

With zombies being a very unorganized group and knights having horses that seems like a textbook case for a heavy cavalry charge to mow through the group. Not a lot of chance for zombies to respond when you have just been run over by 500 kilo's of horse and steel.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Plate is also a bit of a liability when it comes to grappling. Your movements are more restricted, and it provides lots of convenient hand holds for a wily opponent. Or one that doesn't feel pain or suffer from any injury beyond a stoved in head. After that. It's proper limbs ripping off Zombie fun!

Bold is me.

Are we now assuming Zombies are intelligent enough to attempt to remove the armor plates off a knight?

Does the threat of mosquitos ever get factored into a zombie outbreak?

 AduroT wrote:
Does the threat of mosquitos ever get factored into a zombie outbreak?

I was under the impression, at least from WWZ, that animals that contracted the Zombie virus died.