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My first question is pretty much answered so edit to focus on the second question

This is more of a query of the opinions in your meta about forgeworld rules. Since RAW does not allow this, this is a HWYPI question.

Emails from Forgeworld (hardly binding or official I know) indicate that they intended their characters (from the Badab War for example) to be useable in place of any of the other named characters of the same time (captain for captain, chapter master for chapter master) In you local gaming scene how do you feel about this. For example, Lias Issodon leading a battle demi company.

From 'Chapter Tactics'

All models in the same Detachment or Formation must be drawn from the same Chapter.

You would only be able to take a character with set Chapter Tactics in a Formation/Detachment with the same Chapter Tactics.

Yeah... If a formation has set chapter tactics, you can only use people with that chapter tactics

You also cannot make your guys one chapter tactics and then choose a character of a differ one for the same detachment/formation

I went back and noticed I missed a spot in Kauyon book. The detachments can be use for any chapter. Its just the Talon Strike Force that is limited to Raven Guard. That's where I was confused.

I think what was meant is that the FW ICs may have fixed chapters which force you to make your whole force be from a FW chapter.

While RAW is generally lacking in this regard, HIWPI would be to allow the character provided the proper chapter tactics is in place and it's the proper army. The second part is a caveat that I'm ok with you using a decurion if your chapter is a successor of the owning chapter (so say the Space Sharks using the Raven Guard Decurion as if they're ravenguards, but not the imperial fist decurion) but that's just me.

I'd say use the swap options as a guide, for instance, if something allows you to take calgar or kantor (he's a master, yes?), your FW master would be fine; captains are captains; etc. I wouldn't allow FW tactics on chapter-specific formations with the obvious exception of lamenters are de facto blood angels, etc.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
I'd say use the swap options as a guide, for instance, if something allows you to take calgar or kantor (he's a master, yes?), your FW master would be fine; captains are captains; etc. I wouldn't allow FW tactics on chapter-specific formations with the obvious exception of lamenters are de facto blood angels, etc.

I had wanted to use Raptors with the Raven Guard formation but decided against it, mostly because I think that the talon strike force with Lias Issoson is too powerful (I'm not very experienced so I could be wrong.). I feel like Raptors should be able to use Raven Guard formations as it makes sense fluff-wise but I'm not sure it's fair using it with Issosons abilities.

A lot of people are getting confused here
FW emails State that Badab war Characters "May be taken IN PLACE of an Equilivent Character" (I.E if i field a Red Scorpions Librarius Conclave, i can take Loth in it, as Ultramarines can take Tigarius)

I would totally be fine with Raptors using the Raven Guard Formations and detachments if the Raptors are stated to be a successor of the Raven Guard.

But that's just me.

...But then you get into stuff like do Black Templars get Imperial Fist options? Or, what happens if it's canon that a chapter is probably the successor of one or another chapter?

In super-casual games, if it's not cheesy, eh, sure. Other than that, I'd be nervous about gaming things. Not that GW is perfectly balanced, but at least everyone's playing the same set if it's all official.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
While RAW is generally lacking in this regard, HIWPI would be to allow the character provided the proper chapter tactics is in place and it's the proper army. The second part is a caveat that I'm ok with you using a decurion if your chapter is a successor of the owning chapter (so say the Space Sharks using the Raven Guard Decurion as if they're ravenguards, but not the imperial fist decurion) but that's just me.

I think the Space Sharks have their own Chapter Tactics, so I wouldn't be in favour of that exact example. Raptors too; there's a document on Forge World's website listing Chapter Tactics for all the Badab War chapters (even if it's just "this chapter is a successor of XXX; use theirs"). Raptors have their own unique rule, so no using someone else's

By contrast the Exorcists are listed as undetermined, and it specifically says the player may choose whichever Chapter Tactics rule from the Codex they desire.

Disregarding that, I'd be happy for any Forge World characters to stand in place of the generic Codex characters (Captains, Chief Librarians, Masters of the Forge, etc, etc), where the detachment or formation doesn't mandate a Chapter Tactics rule not possessed by the character you want to use.

Regarding Issodon, isn't he a Chapter Master?

As a result, I'd say it's okay for him to be in a Strike Force Command or occupy the role of a Chapter Master, but a Captain, ie for a Demi-Company, isn't okay.

Even if the Raptors are descended from the Raven Guard, they can't use the Raven Guard formations because the Raptors have their own rules. It would be like Black Templars using Imperial Fist formations even though they don't have IF Chapter Tactics. In the case of Chapters like the Black Templars, Space Sharks, Raptors, Astral Claws, Star Phantoms, etc etc - they may be fluffily descended from certain Chapters, but can't use the formations associated with those Chapters because they don't have the same Chapter Tactics as their creators. On the other hand, we have Chapters like the Lamenters, Sons of Medusa and Howling Griffons, who can use the specific formations because they are, for all rules purposes, the same as their founders.

Basically, you can use the Raven Guard formation if you use Raven Guard Chapter Tactics, meaning you can't take Issodon, or you can use Raptors tactics and Issodon, but only be limited to the Gladius.

I'd add to that, if you like the other formations, sure, play them as their founding chapter. I've certainly been building my Astral Claws with the eventual intent, if I get bored or w/e, to include a few Dark Angels characters and special units and run them as a pre-Badab and more-standard successor chapter.

But, yeah, clearly not proper rules even if there are no conflicts means I wouldn't run them like that or accept it any thing but the most casual of games, probably only if I knew the person.

spiralingcadaver wrote:...But then you get into stuff like do Black Templars get Imperial Fist options? Or, what happens if it's canon that a chapter is probably the successor of one or another chapter?

In super-casual games, if it's not cheesy, eh, sure. Other than that, I'd be nervous about gaming things. Not that GW is perfectly balanced, but at least everyone's playing the same set if it's all official.

AndrewGPaul wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
While RAW is generally lacking in this regard, HIWPI would be to allow the character provided the proper chapter tactics is in place and it's the proper army. The second part is a caveat that I'm ok with you using a decurion if your chapter is a successor of the owning chapter (so say the Space Sharks using the Raven Guard Decurion as if they're ravenguards, but not the imperial fist decurion) but that's just me.

I think the Space Sharks have their own Chapter Tactics, so I wouldn't be in favour of that exact example. Raptors too; there's a document on Forge World's website listing Chapter Tactics for all the Badab War chapters (even if it's just "this chapter is a successor of XXX; use theirs"). Raptors have their own unique rule, so no using someone else's

By contrast the Exorcists are listed as undetermined, and it specifically says the player may choose whichever Chapter Tactics rule from the Codex they desire.

Disregarding that, I'd be happy for any Forge World characters to stand in place of the generic Codex characters (Captains, Chief Librarians, Masters of the Forge, etc, etc), where the detachment or formation doesn't mandate a Chapter Tactics rule not possessed by the character you want to use.

Hence why this is how I personally would play it. If someone came up to me with such a build, I would have no problems playing it. If I were to bring it to a game, I'd ask the opponent if they're fine with it and have a backup list (and models ready) should they decline. I won't kick up a fuss if others don't agree, but I personally see it as a valid way of going about things if someone else is in agreement.