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I play death guard and my friend usually fields 2-3 imperial knights at 1850 pts, I'm not sure what to bring to deal with them, and how to deal with them. Last game one of the knights had a shield that gave him 2+ cover save on one side, and he could choose in my shooting phase.

So my best guess is I would have to flank them with my melta chosen, my melta bikers and try and shoot with my havocs from the front.

Any help would be appreciated!


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I also have the option to use a Mayhem pack

How was he getting this 2+?

 Quickjager wrote:
How was he getting this 2+?

Some warlord trait or whatever, i have no idea. I though it was super OP


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He plays dark angels and he said something about an aura from the warlord that affected the other two not sure.

A Darkshroud could do it... If the IK was faction: Dark Angels. But it's not.

So I'm pretty sure he was cheating.

 JNAProductions wrote:
A Darkshroud could do it... If the IK was faction: Dark Angels. But it's not.

So I'm pretty sure he was cheating.

could you elaborate? im playing him again tomorrow.

A Darkshroud gives Stealth to all friendly Dark Angels units within 6". Combine that with a Techmarine fortified ruins, and the IK could conceivably have a 2+ cover, if properly concealed.

The thing is, that only applies to Dark Angels, which an IK is not.

Warlord traits...

1-Affects the Warlord's shooting.
2-Buffs friendly DA.
3-Buffs the Warlord and his unit.
4-Affects reserve rolls.
5-Buffs the Warlord and his unit
6-Buffs the Warlord and his unit.

Edit: Don't be afraid to ask to see his rules if you think something is amiss.

 JNAProductions wrote:
A Darkshroud gives Stealth to all friendly Dark Angels units within 6". Combine that with a Techmarine fortified ruins, and the IK could conceivably have a 2+ cover, if properly concealed.

I think he actually rolled for a 2++ invulnerable save. I read in some other thread, called a grimoire or something, but it explicitly said it didnt improve the invulnerable better than 3++,

You can use the Grimoire of True names on a Chaos Knight to increase its Invuln... But DA have nothing like that, and none of that works on regular IKs.

 JNAProductions wrote:
You can use the Grimoire of True names on a Chaos Knight to increase its Invuln... But DA have nothing like that, and none of that works on regular IKs.

What does the warlords aura do to the shield then?

Well, there's an IK formation that lets them add to their Invuln saves. But I believe that's only on their front arc.

And a DA warlord does NOTHING for them.

Its most likely that he was cheating you, because I have looked through every book that I have, and even the white dwarf supplements. There is only one thing that could even come close to doing something like that, and its only if he runs the formation with one dedicated as his warlord for the duration for the match.

However the bonus only applies to the warlord, and the bonus is only a 3+ save.

As silly as it sounds, Knights hate being in combat against tacticals. They only have 3x WS4 attacks, so you're only killing 1 and a bit tacticals a phase and stomps, while that roll of a 6 is always there, usually results in a str6 ap4 hit which, again, while you're getting wounded on 3's (because death guard), you've also got a 3+/5+++rr1's so you're maybe loosing 3 marines every 2 rounds (~50 points) to hold his ~375 point unit in place. The various other units like Raptors/bikers/termies are much the same, but remember, the more expensive you get, the better the deal for the knight. Ideally, you want the cheapest, most numerous, fearless 3+ save unit you can get your hands on, and DG have that in spades. Doubly effective since you're still getting cover and FNP against his shooting too, so the only thing that you really have to worry about is the chainsword or him rolling 6's for stomps, which, again, is why we take super cheap chaff marines so when he does get lucky, you didn't lose much.

To actually get rid of them though, Melta and melta bombs, MSU for more sources of bombs and more angles to outflank his shield, rolling Heretek powers for any psychers can yield good results with the primaris giving a chance for him to be unable to shoot or the other half of your powers having haywire hits and since you place the shield in the shooting phase, you can outmaneuver the shield if your sorceror is bike mounted (and of course he's bike mounted because you're not silly and T6 sorcs are great).

The old fashioned way of brute forcing it with a large volume of lascannons and/or demolisher shots can also do the trick but that's not usually a set-up you want to take against most armies.

Worst comes to worst, termies with combi meltas and chainfists should be able to put one down if you don't mind mutually assured destruction.

If you're really desperate, you can also try to tarpit him with respawning cultists, but unless you have masses and masses of them or enough other units to tie them up, the knights are too fast and stomps are too killy for that to last long.

If nothing else, find out if he's running AdLance, a Household or Baronial Court since only 1 of their options hands out ObSec. If they're not ObSec, just plant your ObSec units on Objectives after killing off any of his ObSec stuff and roll saves until the games ends with your best trollface on.

You can always kill it with magic.

You're friend probably misread his wargear. Imperial Knights have stock 4++ shield on one facing. There is a formation of 3-5 knights which grants the Character knight (Warlord of the detachment), a reroll of the Ion shield saves of 1. There is also a Relic which has a 3++ Ion shield. Note, Ion shields only protect from Range attacks not melee.

So in theory, he could have a single (Warlord) Knight with a 3++ save and rerolls of 1, but only on once facing. He may have to add technosorery, VIA allies or some other psyker stuff, there might be a way to boost that to a 2++ (But I am not sure).

But to answer you OP question, Knights are actually quite frail for their costs, though they do dish out quite a few shots.

Melta guns and bombs are ideal. You get up close, shoot some meltaguns into him and charge him with a meltabom should take relibably 3 hull points off, with a bit of luck, you'll kill one in the first volley.

Powerfists are great. Terminators with chainfists are even better. When I run an Knights, my buddy who plays Chaos made me learn real quick that 3-5 termies with combi meltas and chainfists, will turn a knight into a smouldering ruin right quick.

If I was attacking knights, I'd deepstrike a termie squad with combi meltas and a couple chain fists. Take 2-3 squads of 3-4 each, maybe only 2 chains fists per squad to keep costs realativly low. Add a mark of Khorne for counter attack and rage maybe. Or slanessh for the +1 to initiative to strap a meltabomb on it before it can attack back.

Maybe take a sorcerer or 2, give him/them divination so you can reroll and missed shots from your combi meltas.

Hope that helps!








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 koooaei wrote:
You can always kill it with magic.

I completely forgot about the Chaos vehicle psyker tree. That has some haywire abilities too, so keep that in mind as well!

are you playing kill points?if so not much you can do, if an objective game drown him in bodies, give melts bombs and power fists wherever possible and hope to knock one or two down controlling objectives.

I had a friend who also played me with the tri-knight game, and claimed the 2++ ranged invlun.

I'm not a knight expert, but he said something about a warlord trait stacking with a baronial court bonus gave it the 2++ invlun save. Or maybe an heirloom?

I didn't know exactly, but I'd bet he had done his homework. I've played him several times, and went to LVO with him, so I'd be pretty surprised if he was cheating.

Joke was on him, though, I didn't have anything that could hurt a knight at range! Just power klaws.

Killed 2, and should have easily killed a 3rd (rolled awful for 3 rounds of combat, but so did he, to be fair), with eternally-waaaghing ghaz. Also killed celestene and cawl.


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But to answer the OP's question: I kill knights primarily with power klaws. You can do the same.

Terminators, meltas, chainfist, invulnerable saves, all can do the trick. And as scary as knights are, they only get 4 attacks on the charge. That's an average of 2 hits, and you get invlun saves most of the time. Stomps are similarly luck-based - if the knight doesn't get lucky, you can shrug them off all day.

A DP could do quite a trick, too. Probably need one with MoN to keep from being instakilled.

But if you can get a T6 DP with some kind of armorbane weapon (I know they're in the codex: demon book), you can cut a knight to ribbons. Plus, they're WS9, so it'll hit you on 5s.

Or hell, kharn, for that matter. Like 7 str 7 armorbane AP2 attacks that hit on 2+ rerolling could probably take out a knight on his lonesome, and at I5 to boot.

IKs are bullies in reality. They are pretty expensive bullies

Find a new friend, or at least ask him to tone it down.

 Tsol wrote:

I completely forgot about the Chaos vehicle psyker tree. That has some haywire abilities too, so keep that in mind as well!

Some of them also ignore cover and all of them ignore ion shields - as shields are placed in the shooting phase and not in the magic phase.

If it were me, I'd sic a crap-ton of Deathwing Knights on him. You can field a total of 38 knights plus termy libby for hq in the deathwing detatchment at that point limit. Bonus if you take librarius powers and generate that sweet sweet re-rollable save blessing. Your poor friend won't know what hit him. Then again that's the DA way of solving that problem. The other DA option is LBSF you can take a max of 10 razorbacks w/ LC mostly free. (the LC upgrade is 20p a model, but the transport is free. As for other armies I only play DA.

Hi mate. It seems you have forgotten about your previous thread about this issue.

You're Deathguard. You're already packing heat from what I have seen from your list. I believe the issue here is your mate keeps lying to you or playing incorrectly. Please double check every rule he uses. There is no way Knights can get a 2++ Invul Save.

Chaos have very good methods for taking down Imperial Knights that are very hard to avoid. The following I would consider an ideal tailored 'anti 3 knight' list:

Black Legion CAD:
Abaddon (In Dreadclaw)

Khorne DP with wings, power armour and Axe of Blind Fury

3 Terminators with MoK, Chainfist, 3 combi-meltas, Khorne Icon (In Dreadclaw)

10 cultists

Dreadclaw

World Eaters CAD:
Kharn (in Dreadclaw)

Khorne Daemon Prince with wings, power armour and Bezerker Glaive

9 CSM with MoK, Melta gun and powerfist with a Dreadclaw

5 CSM with MoK and Melta gun with a Dreadclaw

Putting in rough points cost this comes in around 1600pts so a bit more than 3 knights, but still gives you around 250 points to play with, with 6 FA, HS and Elites slots still open.

The 2 DPs can double team 1 knight easily. One gets 7+d6 st9 attacks on the charge, rerolling all missed to-hits against imperium forces, hitting before the Knight, whilst the other gets the same without the rerolls to hit. Hitting on 3+, getting a glance or pen on a 4+. Together they should easily wreck a Knight before it even swings.

Knights simply cannot escape from a dreadclaw unless the dreadclaw is blown up as a dreadclaw will DS turn 1 in a safe area, turbo boost upto 18" next to the knight then next turn will have a 6" move, the disembark and then the charge, which will be more than the knights 12" move away. Even if the claw is destroyed it will be difficult to move far enough away, although this will make it easier for an opponent to put a different unit in the way.

In the first Dreaclaw there is Abaddon with his St9 attacks on the charge (due to Icon), and a chainfist that combined with 3 melta shots should utterly ruin a knights day.

In the second Dreadclaw is Kharn with his 7(?) st7 armourbane attacks, backed up by a powerfist and a melta shot to take on the third Knight.

The third dreadclaw is there to make sure the 1st 2 arrive turn1. With average dicerolls, you can take down all 3 knights by the end of turn three as long as the DPs survive turn 1. Then they can all turn on the remnants of the knight players army.

With the remaining points, it'd probably be worth getting 3 or 4 (depending on how the rounding worked) quad rapier batteries as these are insanely good at anti tank and anti infantry at a ridiculously low price. Or ally in a load of Renegade Spawn in a Purge - that's always an attractive option!

Obviously very few people have the models to put together a list like that, I'm just using it as an example as to how Chaos definitely have the tools to take knights down.