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2017/04/15 16:29:43
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
Norway, Tønsberg
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Someone please clarify some points for me:
I've been playing a dark angels player who might be a bit lose on the rules, if you know what i mean. These are some of his accusations:
1. Bastonial court can get a 2++ save on his ion shields.
2. Grav weapons can re-roll fail to wound not only against vehicles, but bikes and marines. I downloaded the DA codex, so this one is pretty much no brainier, only against vehicles right?
3. He can bring one grav cannon in each tactical squad of 5 marines in LION’S BLADE STRIKE FORCE. Also he didn't bring veteran squads.................. Not sure about this one. I think he brought 6 tactical squads with razorbacks with a grav cannon in each of the 5 man squads, 2 devastator squads with 2 grav cannons, a unit of scouts, a dreadnought and one unit with two Psychers of some sort. One of them was the guy from DV with the two handed power sword. we played 1850 pts.
4. Overwatch on full ballistic skill *EDITED
any comments appreciated, thank you
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/15 16:51:14
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2017/04/15 16:43:04
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Posts with Authority
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1- I will have to look at that one, because I don't have my Codex nearby.
2- If he has a grav-Amp, he does re-roll if I'm not mistaken.
3- Not sure, but I'd check his math on this one. And the structure of this Strike Force.
4- Uh... not sure how he got this.
Lessons for you here:
-If you aren't sure about the rule, ask to see it.
-Dark Angel players are just larval Tau/Eldar players, many times.
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Mob Rule is not a rule. |
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2017/04/15 16:45:44
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
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The Lion's Blade Strike force should give full ballistic skill overwatch. He's not cheating there.
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H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
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2017/04/15 16:46:41
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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1-Probably total bull,.
2-That's accurate. Grav is ridiculous.
3-That's accurate. They get one special or heavy weapon, and Grav is a heavy weapon.
4-That's the perk of a Lion's Blade. It's crazy, but hey. It's legit.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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2017/04/15 16:49:59
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Posts with Authority
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I'm more concerned with how he got a Baronial Court and a Lion's Blade strike force on the table at 1850.
I'm not doing the math on this one, but that don't seem right.
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Mob Rule is not a rule. |
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2017/04/15 16:53:36
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
Norway, T&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;oslash;nsberg
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Adeptus Doritos wrote:I'm more concerned with how he got a Baronial Court and a Lion's Blade strike force on the table at 1850.
I'm not doing the math on this one, but that don't seem right.
sry, i was not clear about that. these were two different games. one with the baronial court another with the lion cheese strike force
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2017/04/15 16:56:14
Subject: Re:Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Baronial Court is 3 knights minimum, right?
That's 975 points right there, assuming Gallants with no upgrades.
90-Company Master or Chaplain
70-5 Man Tactical
70-5 Man Tactical
70-5 Man Tactical
70-5 Man Assault
70-5 Man Devastator
440
55-5 Man Scouts as an auxiliary
That's 1470 for a total barebones Lion's Blade plus Baronial Court.
Oh, wait, he brought TWO Battle Demi Companies?
Double that, except for the scouts.
880+55+975=1910
That's before literally ANY upgrades.
Your friend is cheating.
Edit: Oh, two different games? Nah, he's probably fine on the points, at least, then.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/15 16:56:49
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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2017/04/15 17:00:55
Subject: Re:Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Lieutenant General
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717352.page Previous discussion on the 2+ Ion Shield save which the OP took part in.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/15 17:02:51
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2017/04/15 17:59:05
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Fixture of Dakka
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1. not legal.
2-4. legal.
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"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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2017/04/15 19:25:22
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
Norway, T&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;oslash;nsberg
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What page in de codex does it say he can reroll to wound on everyhing? all i found was this;
When rolling to Wound with a grav-weapon, or to determine its effects on a vehicle, the bearer can re-roll the result.
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2017/04/15 20:48:49
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
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Grav weapons with an amplifier can re-roll failed to-wound rolls, check the BRB
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6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts
"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..." |
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2017/04/15 20:52:48
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Executing Exarch
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killerpenguin wrote:What page in de codex does it say he can reroll to wound on everyhing? all i found was this;
When rolling to Wound with a grav-weapon, or to determine its effects on a vehicle, the bearer can re-roll the result.
The wargear in question is a "Grav- amp", available to Space Marines, Blood Angels and Dark Angels, but only on the Grav Cannons, not ordinary Grav Guns. It's on page 152 of the Dark Angels codex (not sure on page references in other books), it's not in the main rulebook.
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2017/04/15 21:11:24
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
Norway, T&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;oslash;nsberg
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Quanar wrote: killerpenguin wrote:What page in de codex does it say he can reroll to wound on everyhing? all i found was this;
When rolling to Wound with a grav-weapon, or to determine its effects on a vehicle, the bearer can re-roll the result.
The wargear in question is a "Grav- amp", available to Space Marines, Blood Angels and Dark Angels, but only on the Grav Cannons, not ordinary Grav Guns. It's on page 152 of the Dark Angels codex (not sure on page references in other books), it's not in the main rulebook.
I'm aware of that, the DA codex says what i just wrote.
GRAV- AMP
The grav- amp is a wonder of arche otech that focusses and
strengthens the field of the bearer’s grav-weapons.
When rolling to Wound with a grav-weapon, or to determine its
effects on a vehicle, the bearer can re-roll the result.
So i assume my opponent was cheating when he rolled to hit with his grav cannon against all my units.
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2017/04/15 21:20:05
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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When rolling to wound, they may reroll. It's legit.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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2017/04/15 21:22:23
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
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You cannot reroll to-hits with a Grav amp, that is correct.
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H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
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2017/04/15 21:29:48
Subject: Re:Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Going through the rules: 1) No idea, unfortunately. 2) Grav Weapons, when paired with a Grav-Amp (so only on grav-cannons), can reroll Wounds/damage against EVERYTHING. As you quote the rule, it says "When rolling to Wound with a grav-weapon, or to determine its effects on a vehicle, the bearer can re-roll the result." So, you point out the section where is says so even in your own quote. It can be used both to Wound a normal model, and also on vehicles. Not to hit, but to damage the hit target. Welcome to grav. 3) Grav weapons are just like any special or heavy weapon for a Tactical Squad. A Tactical Squad can have one special or heavy per five men, so a five man squad can have practically any special or heavy. In the list, of the heavy weapon options is a grav cannon. It's totally legit. 4) That's the bonus the Lion's Blade grants. Again, legit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/15 21:30:09
They/them
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2017/04/15 21:32:43
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
Norway, T&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;oslash;nsberg
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You're right i read it all wrong. I'm convinced those are the best ranged weaponry in the game.
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2017/04/15 21:48:01
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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killerpenguin wrote:
You're right i read it all wrong. I'm convinced those are the best ranged weaponry in the game.
There's a reason that grav cannons are the meta-weapon of choice for MSU Tactical Squads.
Grav pistols are worthless, as are most special pistols, and grav guns are only good on rapid units with Relentless (bikers and Biker command squads), but grav cannons, seeing as they natively come with grav- amps, and have a good ROF even when moving, make them a great weapon for Devastators and Tacticals.
They're better than plasma cannons, heavy bolters and missile launchers in every way, have more shots than lascannons, and are only beaten by melta weapons in vehicle killing. Where every other weapon tends to be specialised, the grav-cannon kills everything well, except light armoured targets, which bolters can kill easily enough.
Grav may not be completely amazing, but the grav cannon is the best heavy weapon by a mile.
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They/them
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2017/04/15 22:19:41
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
Norway, T&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;oslash;nsberg
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Sgt_Smudge wrote: killerpenguin wrote:the grav-cannon kills everything well, except light armoured targets, which bolters can kill easily enough.
my thoughts exactly.
I played against my DA friend as you guys probably noticed with all my whining. He played Lion's blade strike force with razorback and grav cannon spam. He just camped on the tableedge and spammed with lascannon and forced me to get in close only to kill me with all his grav cannons. So i guess the only way not to die from it is to bring 3 units of havocs and some lascannons and do the exact same thing he does to stand a chance. Because going inside 24" is a death sentence.
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2017/04/15 22:22:49
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Regular Dakkanaut
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1. I already tried getting a 2++ save on my knights once, no success in getting there yet. So no, I don't think it is possible for a Knight to get a 2++.
2 to 4 are all legit and horrible, horrible things to bring in a friendly match.
I don't know what kind of matches you and your friend(?), but if he takes these kind of weaponry in friendly games then it will never be "friendly" games.
Me and my friends mostly play semi-comp so that the games are still pretty hard, but their is room to tinker around with your lists. Like going complete close combat Admech.
Grav Cannon's are a pain, but they are still salvo weapons, so unless your friend got them on some sort of relentless platform he will never be able to get those 5 shots and the 24'' is pretty easy to avoid, forcing him to move around. Don't get me wrong, grav-cannons are one of the best weapons in the game atm, but they only work in certain combinations like the Skyhammer formation (which gives devastators relentless) to be preform on their best.
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2017/04/16 23:52:32
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Ragin' Ork Dreadnought
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Arlen wrote:1. I already tried getting a 2++ save on my knights once, no success in getting there yet. So no, I don't think it is possible for a Knight to get a 2++.
2 to 4 are all legit and horrible, horrible things to bring in a friendly match.
I don't know what kind of matches you and your friend(?), but if he takes these kind of weaponry in friendly games then it will never be "friendly" games.
Me and my friends mostly play semi-comp so that the games are still pretty hard, but their is room to tinker around with your lists. Like going complete close combat Admech.
Grav Cannon's are a pain, but they are still salvo weapons, so unless your friend got them on some sort of relentless platform he will never be able to get those 5 shots and the 24'' is pretty easy to avoid, forcing him to move around. Don't get me wrong, grav-cannons are one of the best weapons in the game atm, but they only work in certain combinations like the Skyhammer formation (which gives devastators relentless) to be preform on their best.
Gerantius can get a 2++ on his front arc, I think, if taken in the formation that boosts your front art shield. That's about it, though.
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2017/04/17 13:54:49
Subject: Questionable Dark Angels rules
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Bounding Dark Angels Assault Marine
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killerpenguin wrote: Quanar wrote: killerpenguin wrote:What page in de codex does it say he can reroll to wound on everyhing? all i found was this;
When rolling to Wound with a grav-weapon, or to determine its effects on a vehicle, the bearer can re-roll the result.
The wargear in question is a "Grav- amp", available to Space Marines, Blood Angels and Dark Angels, but only on the Grav Cannons, not ordinary Grav Guns. It's on page 152 of the Dark Angels codex (not sure on page references in other books), it's not in the main rulebook.
I'm aware of that, the DA codex says what i just wrote.
GRAV- AMP
The grav- amp is a wonder of arche otech that focusses and
strengthens the field of the bearer’s grav-weapons.
When rolling to Wound with a grav-weapon, or to determine its
effects on a vehicle, the bearer can re-roll the result.
So i assume my opponent was cheating when he rolled to hit with his grav cannon against all my units.
He could be getting re-roll to hit by casting prescience on a unit with his Psyker. He can also take The Eye of the Unseen relic on the Libby or something that grants preferred enemy so re-rolling 1's. Wasn't sure if he was re-rolling to hit and wounds but throwing this out there just in case.
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