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Hokay. Just as a quick note, I've been playing the game for less than a year, so I'm still learning, but I've got a workable list that I intend to use in a local tournament next month. Like so:

CAD:
Commander with Iridium Armour, drone controller, neuroweb system jammer, and 2 marker drones.

Troops:
6 Fire Warriors

10 Kroot Carnivores

Riptide wing formation:

1 riptide with Ion accelerator, Fusion Blaster, stim and EWO.

1 Riptide with Heavy burst cannon, plasma rifle, stim and EWO.

1 Riptide with Heavy burst cannon, SMS, stim and EWO.

Fast attack:

2 units of 4 pathfinders.

1 unit of 6 marker drones.

Lord of War:
1 Stormsurge with Pulse Driver Cannon and Shield generator.

Heavy support:
3 broadside battlesuits, all fitted with high yield missile pods, SMS and EWO, 1 with target lock.

1 Skyray Missile Gunship, fitted with SMS and no other upgrades.

A few basic points of this list:

Naturally, I put my commander with the marker drone squad, netting me 8 markerlights which hit on a 2+. As he has iridium armour to increase his survivability, I'll try and put him up front on the face of small arms fire- it's way better to risk a wound or two than to start losing markerlights IMHO.

The two small units of pathfinders allow me to spread out my markerlight coverage toward either flank. Coupled with the commander and the skyray, this gives me a total of 18 markerlights, 8 of which hit on a 4+, 2 on a 3+, and 8 on a 2+.

The kroot, naturally, are outflanking (or possibly infiltrating). The fire warriors take up position to try and run for an objective if possible, or provide some small arms fire- really, objectives are all they're around for, as an obligatory troops slot.

My broadsides are pretty key, so I try and post them alongside a unit of pathfinders, usually guaranteeing an average of 2 markerlights a turn- and a chance to use markerlights in support if they get charged.

The stormsurge is the centrepiece. If I know I'll have a shot at using it, I'll anchor him in turn 1.

The riptide wing is deployed at the left or right flank, and advane (preferably with markerlight support) with the fusion blaster guy leading, drawing enemy fire as much as possible. Due to the threat posed by the wing and the stormsurge, smaller targets like the skyray or battlesuits tend not to get too much dedicated firepower coming their way.

The commander will deploy in cover if I go second, but all around he'll mostly try to light up any priority target, allowing my firepower to optimize. The EWO fitted to my riptides and broadsides will discourage deep strikes coming too close to me. On the whole, a shooty-as-hell list.

Now, if anyone wants to call this cheese, you should know that a) my local club is super competitive, and I can't actually win games without the wing and surge and b) I haven't actually won many games with it yet. The general weakness seem to be that I lack the ability to score points early on- while I can generally outshoot most armies and kills most of their key targets by turns three and four, often I find myself forced back by dedicated assault units, or bigger nastier things like titans or imperial knights. This gun line means I have less mobility than I'd like, and while every game I've played with this list (or a variant of it) has been even and fun, I often lost by points, narrowly or less so.

Thoughts: might swap out the skyray either for a hammerhead with ion cannon, or for more pathfinders and one or two piranhas, as the latter offer some much needed mobility.

Any opinions?

Here are some of my suggestions:
-Go Farsight and have Monat Suits with fusions instead of kroots and FW.
-For the Riptides I suggest going all with SMS and 2 Ion and 1 Burst. If you have the points give the burst cannon VT.
-Replace the pathfinders and fit in a Drone-net instead.
-Give your SS EWO
-Make the Broadsides 3 units of 1 instead
-Ditch the skyray

Another way is to ditch the SS and go Dawn Blade Contingent with Retaliation Cadre, Drone-net, Riptide Wing, and Piranha formation.

Here is an example list without the SS:
Retaliation Cadre
-Commander with Iridium, Drone Controller, target lock and 2 MP and 2 drones
-3 single units of double fusion suits
-Burstide with SMS, EWO, VT, ECPA
-Single Broadside with HYMP, 2 Missile Drones and EWO
Drone-Net
-1 unit of 4 drones (goes with the commander)
-3 units of 5 drones
Riptide wing
-All with Ion, SMS, EWO, and Stims
Piranha Formation
-What ever points is left.

The idea will be to reserve all the retaliation cadre for a strong Beta strike and have the Piranha for fast scoring/blocking assaults.

Hope these helps! Good luck!

Yeah I know about the farsight options, but I made all my crisis suits before I knew about magnetizing (and my riptides, too- they're all glued stuck), so I couldn't do them naked like I'd want to. Also, I actually want Kroot because they're obsec, and can infiltrate/outflank, something I've found really useful.

I know a lot of people favour SMS... but then again, in my games I've actually found lots of utility for both plasma rifle and fusion blaster; they're exceedingly useful for handling SMEQs. As I mentioned already, my riptides are glued, not magnetized, and I have 3- one with ion/fusion, one with burst/plasma, one with burst/SMS.

Couple questions:
What's a drone net, actually?

Why 3 units of one? To spread firepower? A CAD, if I'm not mistaken, allows a maximum of two heavy support choices, and if I go unbound then I lose things like obsec and so on.

What do you mean by SS? I'm not sure what that abbreviation stands for.

Interesting list choice though.

The Drone Net is a formation in the Mont'ka book that basically grants +1 BS, jink, interceptor, outflank, and split fire to your drone units. It's pretty much an auto-take if you can spare the points. I second the motion to remove the Pathfinders and get a Drone net in there. However, I don't necessarily agree with ditching the Skyray. Those skyfire marker lights are pretty useful, and launching 6 seeker missiles at something is a pretty nice alpha strike. Running an AV 13 tank hull around can be useful as well, since your opponent probably won't want to use many resources deleting it after the seekers are gone. Underrated units, Skyrays.

CADs allow 3 heavy support choices, but you would have 4 with 3 individual Broadsides. Generally speaking, you want to split your models into as many units as possible to limit losses from focused firepower. In your case, a unit of two with a target lock and a unit of 1 should be just fine.

"SS" means your Stormsurge. As fun as auto-doom the Dawn Blade Contingent grants is, there's not really any substitute for a Stormsurge in competitive play. We don't have any other useful answer to Wraithknights, and they help immensely against Imperial knights, too. Stomping stuff is also our only recourse for a unit that gets into close combat, unless you've decided to get freaky and ally in some combat units (which works well, by the way!).

Overall, I like your list and think it will do well. You've got plenty of firepower and tools to deal with the common armies you'll face.

What format are you guys using by the way? ITC? Vanilla?

Tautastic wrote:
What format are you guys using by the way? ITC? Vanilla?

A variant of the ITC format, yeah.

I'd lose the plasma rifle on the riptide and go for SMS on both.

MilkmanAl wrote:
The Drone Net is a formation in the Mont'ka book that basically grants +1 BS, jink, interceptor, outflank, and split fire to your drone units. It's pretty much an auto-take if you can spare the points. I second the motion to remove the Pathfinders and get a Drone net in there. However, I don't necessarily agree with ditching the Skyray. Those skyfire marker lights are pretty useful, and launching 6 seeker missiles at something is a pretty nice alpha strike. Running an AV 13 tank hull around can be useful as well, since your opponent probably won't want to use many resources deleting it after the seekers are gone. Underrated units, Skyrays.

So wait... there's a supplement that gives me markerlights that can move? With a 4+ save rather than the t-shirt 5+? That's super rad, but doesn't that make pathfinders entirely superfluous? Still, I gotta add more drones to my list if that is the case. Thanks a bunch!

Also, glad you agree with me about the skyray. The BS4 markerlights that can also skyfire makes it seem really worthwhile.

I'll consider splitting up my broadsides. I always went with just the one unit because it seemd convenient, noob mentality I guess. I got another broadside for my birthday, maybe I'll put it in two units of two.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

huey357 wrote:
I'd lose the plasma rifle on the riptide and go for SMS on both.

Why though? Just curious. The plasma has come in really handy many times, and while the SMS allows for more long range dakka, S6 AP2 is nothing to sneeze at. I've had that pay off in dividends multiple times against marines, chaos or loyal.

On paper the plasma might look better but in reality the SMS is far more versatile and often superior. Longer range, more shots, ignore cover and ignore line of sight make it much more effective against a variety of targets. Tau and no problem dishing our AP2 with riptide HBC rending/Ion (I prefer the HBC, especially in the riptide wing formation), Stormsurge Pulse Driver, Y'varah flamer (probably the best AP2 weapon in the Tau arsenal) as well as a bunch of other sources. On a unit like a Riptide you want to be maximizing shots. Ripple fire combined with Hellfire is 16 TL SMS shots per Riptide at 30" compared to 4 plasma shots at 24"...

So wait... there's a supplement that gives me markerlights that can move? With a 4+ save rather than the t-shirt 5+? That's super rad, but doesn't that make pathfinders entirely superfluous?

Indeed there is! I felt like Pathfinders were a weak - probably the weakest - marker light source prior to the advent of the Drone Network, but now they're obsolete, without a doubt. The only time I'd ever consider using them is in a Ranged Support Cadre where their marker lights count double and they get shrouded. Under any other circumstances, intercepting marker lights with JSJ are just plain better.

For what it's worth, I agree about running SMS on Riptides. Fusion is an okay-ish alternative, but its range is pretty restrictive. 18" is a workable distance, but you really want to keep your Riptides farther away from contact than that, if at all possible. Plasma is a weird tweener weapon that can be useful but requires you be be too close. The SMS is honestly one of the best weapons in the whole game, so you might as well take advantage of it.

 Messy0 wrote:
On paper the plasma might look better but in reality the SMS is far more versatile and often superior. Longer range, more shots, ignore cover and ignore line of sight make it much more effective against a variety of targets. Tau and no problem dishing our AP2 with riptide HBC rending/Ion (I prefer the HBC, especially in the riptide wing formation), Stormsurge Pulse Driver, Y'varah flamer (probably the best AP2 weapon in the Tau arsenal) as well as a bunch of other sources. On a unit like a Riptide you want to be maximizing shots. Ripple fire combined with Hellfire is 16 TL SMS shots per Riptide at 30" compared to 4 plasma shots at 24"...

Can you explain ripple fire to me? I'm not finding the rule. I know hellfire is the riptide wing's once-per-game double fire rule.


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Indeed there is! I felt like Pathfinders were a weak - probably the weakest - marker light source prior to the advent of the Drone Network, but now they're obsolete, without a doubt. The only time I'd ever consider using them is in a Ranged Support Cadre where their marker lights count double and they get shrouded. Under any other circumstances, intercepting marker lights with JSJ are just plain better.

For what it's worth, I agree about running SMS on Riptides. Fusion is an okay-ish alternative, but its range is pretty restrictive. 18" is a workable distance, but you really want to keep your Riptides farther away from contact than that, if at all possible. Plasma is a weird tweener weapon that can be useful but requires you be be too close. The SMS is honestly one of the best weapons in the whole game, so you might as well take advantage of it.

Well, now I feel really sad about buying and painting 20 pathfinders. God damn GW, I was foolish enough to believe them when they said pathfinders were a mainstay of tau...

TBH I really wish I'd learned how to magnetize, then this would be really simple. I still feel like the plasma rifle has great utility, even if it's more situational. Not denying that the SMS rocks, but my (admittedly not vast) tabletop experience has left me feeling like all three weapons options are pretty viable.

So if you take a look at what a riptide can do with it's nova reactor, ripple fire is one of them. The nova reactor lets you choose between the nova profile on the gun, a 3++ save, a 4d6 assault turn jump, or ripple fire which let's you shoot your secondary weapon twice. Then, in the riptide wing formation you can combine that with the once a game ability that let's you fire twice, and boom 4 shots from your secondary weapon and with the SMS that's 16 s5ap5 shots ignoring cover and LOS.

OK, just wanted to say thanks to all of you. I did some googling, and I've already decided to scrap the pathfinders in favour of a drone net, and I've also decided to split up my broadsides as suggested (although so far, everyone has left them be on account of riptide and stormsurge). I'll probably keep the skyray though, unless points distribution gets really tight (possibly switching it out for an ionhead). I'm going to order the mont'ka book come next paycheck, too. Thanks for your input!

this list seems like it's responding to your fears of the popular meta, but the list doesn't do anything for scoring. you're better off with a shadowsun or crisis suit deathstar with some pushing power. You're line army will get pretty rekt.

If you can get your hands on some Tetras from Forgeworld you can try them out too. Their markerlights rock with the reach they have and are handy with Stormsurges D-missiles if you really need to kill something turn 1. Another great option is Imperial Bunker with escape hatch so you can catapult your commander and his drones forward to light up key target.

 poolatka wrote:
this list seems like it's responding to your fears of the popular meta, but the list doesn't do anything for scoring. you're better off with a shadowsun or crisis suit deathstar with some pushing power. You're line army will get pretty rekt.

Mmmyeah first off I'm not *remotely* experienced enough to talk about the current meta.

Secondly... yeah scoring is a major weakness, thinking of doing 2 kroot units for that exact reason, and adding a piranha for stuff like linebreaker of quick objective snagging.

All I know from my experience so far is: The crisis suit bomb is cool... until turn 2 or 3 when that squad of attack bikes/orks/berserkers/etc charge and either tarpit you for the rest of the game, or more likely just friggin' kills you. Against the hard-hitting lists I've been going up against, I *needed* the punishing firepower of riptide wing + stormsurge. That considered, my games were fairly even despite the lack of quick scoring abilities thanks to the tournament format (IDK what it's called, but you roll 3 dice for 3 objectives, pick 2 out of them, and if you succeed in scoring them you get them at the start of your next turn, giving your opponent a chance to deny them). Like, that squad of attack bikes with a chapter master? Or that *infuriating* blob of necron wraiths with their 3+ invul? They will *home in* on your crisis bomb, whereas a riptide has a very fair chance of surviving a round or two.
Maybe I'm just wrong, but it feels like crisis suits get screwed super hard by anything remotely aggressive to a point where it's not worth it.
(Also I do not own a shadowsun model)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fueli wrote:
If you can get your hands on some Tetras from Forgeworld you can try them out too. Their markerlights rock with the reach they have and are handy with Stormsurges D-missiles if you really need to kill something turn 1. Another great option is Imperial Bunker with escape hatch so you can catapult your commander and his drones forward to light up key target.

Yeah tetras seem cool, might buy some in the future.

Tell me more about the imperial bunker pls