To ensure the security and continuing stability, the Turkish republic will be reorganized...

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Disciple of Fate**

These are exciting times as the man himself Erodgan has pulled it off in a close one.

From possibly plotting his own coup to make use of his hit lists, restarting the conflict with the Kurds and basically calling us (in Europe) all Nazi's he finally pulled off his decade long scheme.

He won the referendum to crown himself Emperor (basically), now there are some pesky issues like voting fraud and voter suppression, but Erdogan has never let trivial issues like that stand in the way of a good victory parade.

Here is just one of the many sources: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39612562

The important details are here:

They would represent the most sweeping programme of constitutional changes since Turkey became a republic almost a century ago.
The president would be given vastly enhanced powers to appoint cabinet ministers, issue decrees, choose senior judges and dissolve parliament.
The new system would scrap the role of prime minister and concentrate power in the hands of the president, placing all state bureaucracy under his control.

The president would be able to directly appoint top public officials, including ministers
He would also be able to assign one or several vice-presidents
The job of prime minister, currently held by Binali Yildirim, would be scrapped
The president would have power to intervene in the judiciary, which Mr Erdogan has accused of being influenced by Fethullah Gulen, the Pennsylvania-based preacher he blames for the failed coup in July
The president would decide whether or not impose a state of emergency

So hes finally managed to take out any democratic opposition and concentrate most, if not all, power into his hands. Sure his position is still elected, but who here on Dakka has faith that something as trivial as elections will stand in the way of his life long tenure as president?

**djones520**

This is just amazing, in a horrifying way.

I mean he just pulled a text book example of turning a democracy into a dictatorship.

**Disciple of Fate**

djones520 wrote:
This is just amazing, in a horrifying way.

I mean he just pulled a text book example of turning a democracy into a dictatorship.

Yeah, the problem is that the votes are really close, 51% to 49%. But the ones doing the counting are a government agency and in no way independent of Erdogan's government. So all these numbers could be totally fake yet there isn't anyone in place anymore to stop anything since that convenient coup last year.

**Frazzled**

And...that wraps it up for Turkey. Time to add them to the list of countries to avoid.

**Galas**

Ataturk would remove in his grave. And this... fanatical dictator call himself the sucesor of Ataturk... blergh.

**Iron_Captain**

Well, I must ask. Did anyone not expect Erdogan to win?
I mean, this is the guy who has been building towards this moment for years, going so far as to orchestrate a coup against himself in order to get an excuse to silence his opponents. Erdogan pretty much certainly had some 'creative vote-counting' measures in place to make sure he got out on top. There is just too much riding on this for him.

**Tyr13**

Frazzled wrote:
And...that wraps it up for Turkey. Time to add them to the list of countries to avoid.

Theyve been on that list for a lot of people for a while now, if the turkish tourism industry is any indication...

**Iron_Captain**

Tyr13 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
And...that wraps it up for Turkey. Time to add them to the list of countries to avoid.

Theyve been on that list for a lot of people for a while now, if the turkish tourism industry is any indication...

Its a shame though. Turkey is a wonderful country.

**jhe90**

So president is now a emperor?
Or is sultan a correct term?

Goodbye turkey. Your cooked.

**welshhoppo**

So whilst people were concerned that Trump was secretly Hitler. Erdogan has actually done it while our attention was elsewhere.

**jhe90**

welshhoppo wrote:
So whilst people were concerned that Trump was secretly Hitler. Erdogan has actually done it while our attention was elsewhere.

Aye... It seems he pulled off the legally elected dictator level powers move successfully.

North Korea and Syria screened this move well.

**Kilkrazy**

This is very dismal and unwelcome news.

**Disciple of Fate**

welshhoppo wrote:
So whilst people were concerned that Trump was secretly Hitler. Erdogan has actually done it while our attention was elsewhere.

Its not so much that we were distracted as the fact that Erdogan couldn't be realistically stopped. He ruined his relations with Europe and likely wouldn't have hesitated to drag down the entire country if he wasn't going to get what he want (lets not forget he restarted the war with the Kurds just to get a few more seats in parliament, this man is insane). Not much we could have done about it besides from actively depose him.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/31/opinion/turkeys-war-of-distraction-on-kurds.html?_r=0

Mr. Erdogan’s War Against the Kurds

It’s not unusual for political leaders in trouble to use diversionary tactics to turn their fortunes around. Hollywood capitalized on this theme in a popular 1997 film called “Wag the Dog” in which, right before an election, a political spin doctor distracts voters from a presidential sex scandal by engaging a film producer to create a fake war with Albania.

There are suspicions that a real-time, dangerous version of that scenario is playing out in Turkey, where President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is in a desperate struggle to stay in power after his Islamist-rooted Justice and Development Party lost its governing majority in a crucial election in June. Ahead of new elections set for Nov. 1, Mr. Erdogan last month reignited a war with Kurdish separatists, the Kurdistan Workers’ Party or P.K.K., in an apparent effort to rally support for the government and thus salvage his ambitions for continued authoritarian rule and greatly expanded powers.

In recent years, Mr. Erdogan made strides toward recognizing the rights of Turkey’s Kurdish minority and moving toward a fragile peace with the separatists, who had waged a three-decade war against the Turkish government. About 40,000 people were killed, most by security forces. All that diplomacy seems like ancient history, now that Turkish warplanes have resumed strafing targets in northern Iraq where the separatists are based. The pretext for the renewed fighting was the killing of two Turkish police officers. But even if the gunmen were P.K.K., as the government claims, Mr. Erdogan could have found other ways to respond than all-out war.

Mr. Erdogan had long counted on the Kurds to help him achieve the parliamentary supermajority in the June elections that would have allowed him to change the Constitution and create a more powerful presidency. The Kurds make up 18 percent of the population. And while marginalized for years, they had voted for his party in the past. But in June, many of the Kurds, joined by secular Turks, switched loyalties to the pro-Kurdish People’s Democratic Party. Despite strenuous efforts during the campaign by Mr. Erdogan to discredit it, that party won enough votes to help deprive Mr. Erdogan’s party of a governing majority.

By renewing military action, Mr. Erdogan appears to be making an aggressive appeal to Turkish nationalists opposed to self-determination for the Kurds. He is worried about the growing strength of the separatists, whose military affiliate in Syria has become a close and effective ally of the United States in the fight against the Islamic State. More broadly, Mr. Erdogan is fearful that the Kurds, an ethnic group with populations throughout the region in Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey, will push even harder to establish the sovereign state they have long yearned for. They have been emboldened by their Syrian affiliates’ gains against ISIS and the creation of a relatively stable Kurdish province in Iraq.

Mr. Erdogan last month agreed to let the Americans use Incirlik air base and two other bases to fly missions against ISIS, a long overdue commitment that should have been pro forma for a NATO ally but took a year of tough negotiations because of Turkish resistance. He also agreed to join the American-led coalition in the fight against ISIS.

But it is clear that his main priority is fighting the Kurdish separatists. The United States should use its influence in the region to stop the fighting and deprive Mr. Erdogan of an excuse to continue a military operation that makes the difficult struggle against the Islamic State even harder.

**squidhills**

Well, so much for Turkey. Erdogan is now President-For-Life. It will take decades to undo the damage to Turkey's political and judicial institutions that this man will inflict on them.

**Vaktathi**

Galas wrote:
Ataturk would remove in his grave. And this... fanatical dictator call himself the sucesor of Ataturk... blergh.

I'm pretty sure you could power half the middle east just by hooking Ataturk's grave up as a generator at this point.

**Galas**

Vaktathi wrote:
Galas wrote:
Ataturk would remove in his grave. And this... fanatical dictator call himself the sucesor of Ataturk... blergh.
I'm pretty sure you could power half the middle east just by hooking Ataturk's grave up as a generator at this point.

Have an Exalt, this made me laugh in this hard times

**Vaktathi**

Galas wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Galas wrote:
Ataturk would remove in his grave. And this... fanatical dictator call himself the sucesor of Ataturk... blergh.
I'm pretty sure you could power half the middle east just by hooking Ataturk's grave up as a generator at this point.

Have an Exalt, this made me laugh in this hard times

Not sure what else to say about Turkey at this point, find humor where you can. They're an interesting nation with tons of deep history and lots to rightfully be proud of, occupying a central geopolitical place in the world, but this is not good, and is going to get worse before it gets better. I can only hope the people of Turkey survive it as best they can at this point and that other nations don't fall prey to the same thing.

**Korinov**

So, the goatlover finally got what he wanted.

In any case, although the vote here was probably rigged, let's not forget he has quite a lot of popular support as well.

Sad news for the percentage (49% according to the official data) that voted 'no', the purges will continue and likely get worse.

**jhe90**

Galas wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Galas wrote:
Ataturk would remove in his grave. And this... fanatical dictator call himself the sucesor of Ataturk... blergh.
I'm pretty sure you could power half the middle east just by hooking Ataturk's grave up as a generator at this point.

Have an Exalt, this made me laugh in this hard times

That deserves a exalt!
Half. I don,t know with that spin rate we might hit 75% soon!

**Tactical_Spam**

Can't wait for the hundreds of "We will retake the Byzantine" memes that'll flood my Facebook in the upcoming days.

I'd make some connection to an old ruler who pulled the same stunt Erodgan may have pulled a while ago and say "I knew it" but I have long since forgotten the name of that long dead ruler.

**Witzkatz**

What I find really scary is that there was a report in German newspapers about the roughly 3 million of Turkish citizens, with or without double nationality, living in Germany voting on this, after long campaigns by the Turkish government holding rallies in favor of this referendum here in Germany, on top of quite a ruckus about the Turkish government using their religious governmental institutions to spy on dissenters IN GERMANY.

And now apparently 63 percent of the Turks in Germany voted YES, far more than in Turkey itself, and certainly more than in the big Turkish cities.

People living here are supporting something over there which they don't have to experience directly themselves, and adding to the downfall of democracy in their so-called home country far away, even if many of them have lived here for decades. Something about this seems very, very sad to me.

**konst80hummel**

As Greeks living next door we 're fethed either way.
Whenever Turkey experiences internal problems they export them by accusing foreigners or other nationalities living in Turkey. See the Armenian Genocide and the Greek Pogroms in Istanbul in '54. Moreover when they feel they need to ramp up nationalism they start talking about disputed zones and invalid treaties and doing flyovers of Greek isles.
With him next door I may have to look for my conscription papers.

**Frazzled**

Iron_Captain wrote:
Well, I must ask. Did anyone not expect Erdogan to win?
I mean, this is the guy who has been building towards this moment for years, going so far as to orchestrate a coup against himself in order to get an excuse to silence his opponents. Erdogan pretty much certainly had some 'creative vote-counting' measures in place to make sure he got out on top. There is just too much riding on this for him.

Good point.

**Ketara**

Vaktathi wrote:
Galas wrote:
Ataturk would remove in his grave. And this... fanatical dictator call himself the sucesor of Ataturk... blergh.
I'm pretty sure you could power half the middle east just by hooking Ataturk's grave up as a generator at this point.

Exalted.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

This bad news, terrible news. I don't deny that or defend this power grab, but what's the alternative?

Again, I come back to that word called Realpolitik...

The Syrian refugee crisis and the blowback from the Iraq debacle, was, IMO, a big factor in Britain voting for Brexit.

Imagine if Turkey collapsed. Imagine the flood, nay the tidal wave of refugees heading for Europe. It would probably see the collapse of the European Union and a gakstorm of social unrest and the far-right thinking it was every birthday and Christmas rolled into one.

I don't like it, but it's in our best interests to keep Turkey stable, even if it means supporting a dictator...

Europe will have to take one for the team...

**kronk**

konst80hummel wrote:
As Greeks living next door we 're fethed either way.
Whenever Turkey experiences internal problems they export them by accusing foreigners or other nationalities living in Turkey. See the Armenian Genocide and the Greek Pogroms in Istanbul in '54. Moreover when they feel they need to ramp up nationalism they start talking about disputed zones and invalid treaties and doing flyovers of Greek isles.
With him next door I may have to look for my conscription papers.

Whether the fear is real or imagined, it's your proximity to Turkey that was the final reason my wife and I chose France over Greece for our big vacation this year. Now? Not likely to ever happen.

**konst80hummel**

Fair enough, have fun and remember us in the Eastern Mediteranean when you drink those Bordeaux wines. (And do visit Carcassone in the south and Mont Saint Michell in the North. Both unreal places.)

**kronk**

konst80hummel wrote:
Fair enough, have fun and remember us in the Eastern Mediteranean when you drink those Bordeaux wines. (And do visit Carcassone in the south and Mont Saint Michell in the North. Both unreal places.)

I'm more of a beaujolais fan, but I'll hold a glass up for you!

I do hope that gak gets sorted. Lots of stuff I'd love to see in Greece. Except grappa. Don't care for it.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

kronk wrote:
konst80hummel wrote:
As Greeks living next door we 're fethed either way.
Whenever Turkey experiences internal problems they export them by accusing foreigners or other nationalities living in Turkey. See the Armenian Genocide and the Greek Pogroms in Istanbul in '54. Moreover when they feel they need to ramp up nationalism they start talking about disputed zones and invalid treaties and doing flyovers of Greek isles.
With him next door I may have to look for my conscription papers.

Whether the fear is real or imagined, it's your proximity to Turkey that was the final reason my wife and I chose France over Greece for our big vacation this year. Now? Not likely to ever happen.

France has seen a lot of terror attacks these past 2 years and is likely to suffer them again.

Given the current climate, I'd probably pick Greece over France.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
France has seen a lot of terror attacks these past 2 years and is likely to suffer them again.

And even more car accidents!