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Hello!

I'm getting into 40k and I need some help regarding the order of assaulting targets . I was playing as IG with an Imperial Knight Detachment against Tau, I wanted to assault his riptide with a squad of guardsmen, followed by the Knight. Knowing this, he told me that charges are resolved simultaneously and that he could opt to have his riptide ignore the guard and fire on the knight instead.

To my understanding, the riptide should have either used it's overwatch on the guardsman, or risk losing the opportunity entirely if the guard make base-contact.

I didn't find much to clear it up in the rulebook (maybe I missed something?), So can someone please explain what should be happening in this scenario?

Thanks!

If you are charging with both at the same time he can pick which one he is shooting at, he cannot overwatch if already in CC, but if both are charging he isn't in CC until you resolve the charges.

Ceann wrote:
If you are charging with both at the same time he can pick which one he is shooting at, he cannot overwatch if already in CC, but if both are charging he isn't in CC until you resolve the charges.

You're wrong.
You choose ONE unit of yours to charge an enemy unit.
Then that unit can choose to fire overwatch and if it does, it is immediately resolved.
After that the charging unit rolls for charge range and moves into base contact (if it manages to).

Then you choose a different unit of yours to charge. So at this point the enemy unit is already locked in combat and doesn't get to fire overwatch.

The procedure to charge is explained sufficiently well. Read the chapter about the charge sub-phase, pages 45 and 46 specifically.
Locked in combat is on page 47 and tells you that you are locked as soon as you are in base to base contact with another unit.

You have to complete a unit's charge move before you can move on to the next and by then enemy is locked.
OP is correct in assuming that the riptide has to choose to shoot the guard or forfeit its overwatch if the guard charge first.

Yes, Roknar I misunderstood his question.

Assault rules are...

1. Declare Charge
2. Resolve Overwatch
3. Roll charge range
4. Charge move
5 Declare next charge

What you said was correct 100%.

Thanks for the responses!

As a follow up, how does charging multiple units (Disordered charge) work?

if a unit is more than one model (This is important for later) you can declare a multi charge

You nominate two targets (In this example) they are the primary and secondary target respectively.

You roll for charge range as normal, first you must get as many models in the unit into BtB with the primary target as possible. When you cant get into BtB with the primary target, or the range is not enough for the other models in the unit to charge the primary, you can then allocate models from the unit to charge the secondary.

On a side note: if it is imposible to charge the primary target whatsoever (Because of model blocking), then you can go for the secondary target without needing to go for the primary. (Extra note: This is the only instance where a single model unit can use to 'multi' charge. Since by the rules he can charge the secondary unit instead)

Note that any of these charges will result in a disordered charge, regardless if you get into both targets or not


Hope that clears it up

So should I be measuring the charge range for each model? I thought that so long as one model can make the range then the unit can.

Also is it possible to assault a third unit?

You only need 1 to make contact for the charge to be successful. but you generally measure each model so that you get as many in base to base as possible

I thought the important part for disordered charges was maintaining unit coherency.

it's a combination.

You have to:

a) Be in charge range to both primary and secondary targets

B) have enough models so that you have enough to charge the main unit but also to charge the secondary when you cant reach the primary


And yes... you can charge as many units as you want. But they will also be secondary targets. So you will need a BIG squad to cover more than 2

I had a squad of 30 guardsmen at the time, I actually ran past his tau commander on the way to charge the riptide.

 Roknar wrote:

Ceann wrote:
If you are charging with both at the same time he can pick which one he is shooting at, he cannot overwatch if already in CC, but if both are charging he isn't in CC until you resolve the charges.

You're wrong.
You choose ONE unit of yours to charge an enemy unit.
Then that unit can choose to fire overwatch and if it does, it is immediately resolved.
After that the charging unit rolls for charge range and moves into base contact (if it manages to).

Then you choose a different unit of yours to charge. So at this point the enemy unit is already locked in combat and doesn't get to fire overwatch.

The procedure to charge is explained sufficiently well. Read the chapter about the charge sub-phase, pages 45 and 46 specifically.
Locked in combat is on page 47 and tells you that you are locked as soon as you are in base to base contact with another unit.

You have to complete a unit's charge move before you can move on to the next and by then enemy is locked.
OP is correct in assuming that the riptide has to choose to shoot the guard or forfeit its overwatch if the guard charge first.

I had been trying to explain this is how it ought to work to my group, but I am by far the newest player and wasn't taken seriously, thanks for this thread so I can link to them and back up my reading of the rules.

For what it's worth, I believe it was clarified that a single unit cannot make a disordered charge - you can't charge a single knight into two riptides, for example.

Single model, I think you mean.

GodsCronik wrote:

I had been trying to explain this is how it ought to work to my group, but I am by far the newest player and wasn't taken seriously, thanks for this thread so I can link to them and back up my reading of the rules.

Don't let that hold you back. The rules aren't fundamentally difficult, but they are often rather ambiguous and there are a ton of them and GW's FAQs and erratas often muddy the waters even further. Even as a veteran you'll still often need reminders at the very least.

 Roknar wrote:

GodsCronik wrote:

I had been trying to explain this is how it ought to work to my group, but I am by far the newest player and wasn't taken seriously, thanks for this thread so I can link to them and back up my reading of the rules.

Don't let that hold you back. The rules aren't fundamentally difficult, but they are often rather ambiguous and there are a ton of them and GW's FAQs and erratas often muddy the waters even further. Even as a veteran you'll still often need reminders at the very least.

It doesn't help that some veterans will often accidentally remember rules from previous books and editions.

 Charistoph wrote:
It doesn't help that some veterans will often accidentally remember rules from previous books and editions.

Think everyone has been guilty of that..

Especially during that period where there was a new edition basically every year or two...