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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Being a big fan of Post Apoc skirmish games, (This is not a Test, Dark age, etc) and skirmish games in general, figured id pick it up. 152 Page hardback for 20 bucks on amazon is a great deal (and the art is top notch). MY last Osprey purchase was Rogue Stars, or better known as Homework the Game. That was a huge flop, so I had some reservations.

Games are 750 points, played on a 4x4 with 50-75% covered in terrain.

As a note, I never played the original system this rule set is based on.

The positive:

- How you can build your crew. A simple system that doesn't throw a million abilities at you and make it overwhelming for what to pick from. A good selection of weapons/armors/and general gear as well to customize your models.

- Examples on how to build your crew(examples are always a plus)

- Easy enough system after reading the book one to be able to make a crew and do a test game.

- Game flow seems straight forward, and making rolls is also pretty clear. combat value total + D10 to opponents value +d10. One nice part is even if you are rolling say 5 dice to hit, you only are picking the highest.

- Wounding is a nice system. No real Hit points. Each model can take a hit and they are laid down in the "shocked" status if they survive the hit. If they are hit again in the same turn, they are wounded and out of the fight. If they survive they get back up.

- Line of sight. You see 360 and need to see part of the models body, not weapon to shoot it. Lots of games make this very weird, or restrict. This IMO is how it should be always.

- Cover System - I like it. In short, if terrain is obscuring your model in any form, you get Concealment, which is your Combat Score+d10. If your in the open its Combat score /2 +d10. You have cover if you are touching the terrain itself, which is Combat score +2d10 take highest. (Feats can ignore parts of this if your a hawkeye/sniper)

The Indifferent::

- Weapon Jams. If you roll a 1 when shooting, you need to make a check after to see if your gun is busted. It is difficulty 5, do you need to roll a d10 and get a 5 or better. There are feats and extra ammo to help with this. Seems a little brutal, and im not positive if you can repair this later in the same game. It is usable in your next game though.

- Area terrain. You can see 2 inches into it, if its larger then that and someone on the other side or 3 inches inside the area terrain, cant see them. Not good, not bad, but felt its worth mentioning as a interesting mechanic.


The Negative: (This may seem harsh, but it is always easier to point out whats bad then whats good...)

- Never allowed to premeasure. Outdated and stupid. Not using that rule, not for any game.

- Book layout. Ive heard this was improved on the system it was based on. Yikes. If this is an improvement from original, I couldn't imagine. It is just very jumpy, and refers to tables earlier in the book. It should have had a number system. Like Table 1 A or such

- Command Pool. This took a few reads to understand. Should have included an example. As I get it, you get actions = to your commander CMD stat. So you want this the highest possible, which caps starting at a 6. On the infinitive step, if you win you get your CMD in actions that turn plus 3 more. Each model can only do 1 action to excess are lost. You also want bodies so it leaves you if you have 7+ models and don't win infinitive, you wont get to use them all. Honestly I don't know if that's bad, just in low model games every model should be getting to do something.

- Random movement when shocked. If your wounded, your going to move to cover, its not going to be random. Think that will be a house rule.

- The Edge and The Break. an interesting reaction system. If you go first, you get the +3 actions and your very first action cant be "Broken", aka reacted to. How it normally would work is you declare your action and model, then once in a turn the other player can "Break" your action to interrupt and do something before your model. Then after you go back to your model. You don't have to do the action you declared before your action was "Broken", you can do a new action. ALSO, the active player who was broken can in turn break the opponents break. Thus making a chain of 3 models. again, you can only break once a turn unless you have some special ability to do so more then once. I don't think the consept it bad in itself, just it is worded very clunky and could have been shown easier.

- Break checks at 25%. an easy fix by simple house rule, but come on. Games like this should be 50% of 75%. You want to actually get to play, not start the game off by loosing 2 guys and then forced to check the rest of the game.

- Target priority. I feel this concept to skirmish games is out dated. It also doesn't make real world sense. If you played necromunda/shadow wars then its the same. Closest guy UNLESS closet is in combat, shocked, or in cover and farther is not in cover. Now you can buy a skill that lets you target who you want for 15 points. (Normal game is 750 points). Giving the option makes it not horrible. If you are a elite force, youd want all your guys to have this. There is also "elevated position" which is if you are 2 inches or higher then the closest guy, you can ignore target priority for range combat. I feel this just slows down the game.

- No real missions. The game is very campaign driven. The one offs would really be demo games. Because of this, the whole point is getting scrap counters. You grab them, then eventually get out of there. Once you grab one, you roll a d10 and see if its a 7+. If so, roll a d100 and some event happens. Each time a token is taken the check needed for a event goes down. Only 1 even can happen per game. The chart is cool, but I with there was more of actual missions, and not just "grab scrap, live, run".


Final thoughts on the rules/book

It looks fun and enjoyable. I hope to try it out this weekend using my chaos cultists from GW. The over all flow of the game seems quick and easy. The book could have used a easier way to look up items, as its very scattered about and not as organized as id like when reading a rulebook. Also some old legacy rules (priority target, no pre measure, break at 25%) really take away from the overall rule presentation. Again, just my opnion, but ive played more skirmish games then I can count and the better ones that stick with the group don't have priority, always premeasure, and break is 50 or higher. All things that are q easy house rule, just wish the printed rules went this route. On its face value, id say 7/10. For our group, I don't see this ever taking over Dark age, and it would be very hard pressed to be better then This is not a Test, but will need to play it to give it a better opinion.
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Man, I didn't even know it was out yet.

Good review. I do not think we agree on all points, but I have a good idea of what this game has to offer.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Feel free to ask questions.

Also the game is going to need custom stat cards. The roster sheet in the back is...lacking. No room for stats on weapons or special abilities. An easy fix in excel as that's all the sheet in back.

Friend is doing Genestealer Cult and im going to do the Chaos Cultists. Gamma Lords vs the Purge!

I was happy to find physic powers (mutant powers) in the form of melee and range attacks. Wrote up the Gene Cult leader. Fits very well with what you want to build.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






str00dles1 wrote:
- Area terrain. You can see 2 inches into it, if its larger then that and someone on the other side or 3 inches inside the area terrain, cant see them. Not good, not bad, but felt its worth mentioning as a interesting mechanic.


I thought I'd point out that's how Warhammer (up to 5th edition, at least) and 40k (up to 2nd edition) used to do it. I tend to use that rule in just about anything if I can't remember the actual rules.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Epic 40k also does it. Well kinda. You can see 10 CM into terrain. Which is close to 4 inches.

I did make a mistake on weapon jams. Not quite as bad as I mentioned, I think...

If you roll a 1 when shooting on any dice, you check to see if you jammed. Take your CMD value, so lets say 4 for example +1D10 VS a difficulty check of 5+1D10.

So if your a normal trooper your usually at a slight disadvantage to succeed. Kinda wish it was a little easier. With machine guns and rifles I can see there being lots of dice offs. I don't know what system would make it quicker, but meh. You have to atleast match the opposed rolls. So normally, you need to get 1 higher then your opponents roll unless you take feats to improve your weapon.
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Maybe, but crap weapons are a staple of Post-Apoc games in my view.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





St. Louis, MO

My copy is due to arrive on the 22nd.

Your overview of the game and the stuff they posted on their own blog convinced me to go ahead and order the game.

Thanks for the information.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Got to play a game of it tonight.

The good:

After a round or so, it became very fast paced on rolling to hit/wound/etc and the flow of the game is good.

You want to buy helmets! 5 scrap for a helmet is almost mandatory. In short, Attacker wins ties in this game, but a helmet makes defender win to wound rolls of tie. Saved my models more then a few times

Flamethrower was quite enjoyable to use. Wished it was a template, or auto hit but when it does, wow.

The game can be very brutal and deadly. For an example, My Melee leader used his special to get +3 combat, and he is a 6 base. Rolled a 10 so I'm at a 19. Opponent rolled a 1 and had 5 total. I beat him by 14. So I roll my weapon damage of 9+14 for how much I beat him by plus a d10. He rolls a d10 plus his armor of 6. Neadless to say I splattered him all over. that's an extreme, but one bad roll and you could be exploded. Good mechanic.

The bad:
Wording in some parts needed more proof reading done to it. We understood what they meant but was confusing at firs by how they interchanged out of play and wounded. Wounded means out of play, but checking for break tests says wounded OR out of play, Small other things like that.

Missions. I know its a campaign game, but it should have had basic missions. There is a single mission with 4 super minor variants. Set up, scrap, attacker and defender is the same. Every...single...game. For 151 pages it should have had missions. This was very disappointing.

While it wouldn't be to hard to make up missions, its still something I shouldn't have to do.

as far as my thoughts and ranking on it, I still feel its Dark age #1, This is not a test #2 and Scrappers 3# for post apoc games we have played. If Scrappers had missions, id say it was a solid contendor with This is not a test, but the lack of really sets it behind. I do like the game a lot, a good system but not fully fledged out

   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

IIf most of the sceanrios are "loot" style missions than any Frostgrave mission will work well with this game.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I did speak with one of the creators.

Flamethrowers "Fire Gear Trait" is a misprint. It shouldn't be there.

There is a lot more rules/missions/items that didn't make the cut for book one. So more will be in supplements. When - unknown

As for the scenario, it is just one. With one variant being after turn 3, radiation starts to seep in every turn, so your on a clock.

I didn't do frost grave, so no idea how the missions work.

With this system, you grab a scrap counter, see if a random event happens (only once a game) then that's it. Im sure there is lots of missions that could be converted from other systems, but just disappointing there wasn't a solid 6 missions or so from the start.

Played it again this past Sunday. We like the system, but yea without it being flushed out more mission wise, its just better to stick with This is not a Test.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Japan

I went ahead and ordered a copy of the game. I've been looking for something else to use my Deadzone models in, and this game sounds easier to run than Rogue Stars.

Now showing more Samurai Marines, Bad Squiddo Amazons, and an Oldhammer Chaos Thug!

Painting total as of 3/28/2024: 21 plus a set of modular spaceship terrain

Painting total for 2023: 79 plus 28 Battlemechs and a Dragon-Balrog

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Way way way way easier then rogue stars, and deadzone models would fit very well in it.

Plague would be Gamma Lords
Enforcers/robo Elves Synthetics
Rebels freelancers etc.

The dice system is easy. Roll your total dice ammount, take the highest dice plus your ability mod and that's your total. Reminded me of heavy gear a little (which our group plays and likes aswell)
   
Made in us
Elusive Dryad




California, USA

str00dles1 wrote:
Feel free to ask questions.

Also the game is going to need custom stat cards. The roster sheet in the back is...lacking. No room for stats on weapons or special abilities. An easy fix in excel as that's all the sheet in back.


You can find embellished Crew Manifests, Play Reference Sheets, and Crew Builder Reference sheets in the Downloads section of our website at www.brinkofbattle.com




Automatically Appended Next Post:
str00dles1 wrote:
Got to play a game of it tonight.

You want to buy helmets! 5 scrap for a helmet is almost mandatory. In short, Attacker wins ties in this game, but a helmet makes defender win to wound rolls of tie. Saved my models more then a few times


Helmets only make an exact result of Shocked into No Effect. If the Attacker's result is great than, it doesn't work. Only if the Damage Check result is equal to the Resistance Check result, then instead of a Shocked outcome its No Effect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
str00dles1 wrote:
Being a big fan of Post Apoc skirmish games, (This is not a Test, Dark age, etc) and skirmish games in general, figured id pick it up. 152 Page hardback for 20 bucks on amazon is a great deal (and the art is top notch).

- Break checks at 25%. an easy fix by simple house rule, but come on. Games like this should be 50% of 75%. You want to actually get to play, not start the game off by loosing 2 guys and then forced to check the rest of the game.



When two Rival Crews fight, they make Rout Checks when they've had 50%+ of their Crew Wounded, and they also get bonus Experience Points in the After Action Report. Non-Rivals use the standard 25%+.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/26 04:56:16


Scrappers: Post-Apocalyptic Skirmish Wargames can be found at https://ospreypublishing.com/scrappers 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






So, if I already have This Is Not A Test, and my post-apoc tastes run towards Mad Max or Fallout, how interested should I be in this rulebook?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Psychopomp wrote:

So, if I already have This Is Not A Test, and my post-apoc tastes run towards Mad Max or Fallout, how interested should I be in this rulebook?


If you want mad max, I recommend Axels and Alloys. This isn't mad max at all. TNT and Scrappers both have a Fallout feel so either works.

Like I said, once this system comes out with actual missions, some more grear and such, I think it can really contend with TNT.

Dice system is well done. Your always trying to get the highest on a D10 with mods vs their highest.

The skills are simple and effective. Want to be better at shooting? Buy some skills, or CC, skills. Ive seen and bought many Post Apoc systems that try to do way to much and make creating guys a pain. Scrappers makes it very easy to tool up a warband quickly.

Hopefully soonish, missions come out, maybe some more faction stuff, and weapons.gear
   
 
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