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I have sunk about 6 hours in to the beta for Dawn of War III so far.

The units do not represent their ability in the fluff or tabletop in almost any way. While many may hail it as a good RTS, it is in no way a 40k RTS other than it's name, and the appearance of the units.

Just thought I would give a heads up to the 40k enthusiasts, it isn't worth playing if you are only interested in it from a 40k perspective (like me)

Examples? The worst I saw was that Space Marine flying around in his terminator armor.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Examples? The worst I saw was that Space Marine flying around in his terminator armor.

The aesthetic is the big one. The voice acting of units, the way the units move, and the units purpose in the game. The fact you can upgrade whole units to have the same weapon, IE all plasma or flamer etc.

Then there is stuff like the teminators jumping everywhere, there are many examples of unrealistic ability of units.

The hero system involves you taking Gabriel Angelos no matter which marine faction you are using, not a generic captain or something.

I could go on forever. I can't think of a single thing other than the look of the units and the fact that it says 40k which it has in common.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Examples? The worst I saw was that Space Marine flying around in his terminator armor.

So CS Goto was involved with DOW3, eh?

To be honest, I don't think Dawn of War has ever truly captured the fluff of 40k. My main experiences were in the first Dawn of War games, and they didn't really do too well as examples of 40k. Fun games, yes, but not 40k beyond aesthetic.

The main issue is that I could easily burn through several squads worth of Astartes, easily a company or two, which would in fluff be a catastrophic loss.

The Terminator armour issue is also an annoying one.

It's a fun game, IMO, but it's not 40k beyond a skin change.

Honestly the 40k Fluff doesn't really represent its own fluff that well before its even worth thinking of the table top.

At best we get some interpretations, But i do agree that the terminators being ultra nimble and things as such is a bit annoying to see.
As well as there not being generic leaders being a huge Letdown :( (but i was thinking they had generic leaders, But i have not been following it much)

There are more design choices in the dawn of war games i think are worse than anything fluff related But more missed opportunity than really things that faults of the game.

 Rippy wrote:
I have sunk about 6 hours in to the beta for Dawn of War III so far.

The units do not represent their ability in the fluff or tabletop in almost any way. While many may hail it as a good RTS, it is in no way a 40k RTS other than it's name, and the appearance of the units.

Just thought I would give a heads up to the 40k enthusiasts, it isn't worth playing if you are only interested in it from a 40k perspective (like me)

This is unusual? We had a Khornate Warband in Dawn of War 1 that used Horrors and Sorcerers.

 Rippy wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Examples? The worst I saw was that Space Marine flying around in his terminator armor.

The aesthetic is the big one. The voice acting of units, the way the units move, and the units purpose in the game. The fact you can upgrade whole units to have the same weapon, IE all plasma or flamer etc.

Then there is stuff like the teminators jumping everywhere, there are many examples of unrealistic ability of units.

The hero system involves you taking Gabriel Angelos no matter which marine faction you are using, not a generic captain or something.

I could go on forever. I can't think of a single thing other than the look of the units and the fact that it says 40k which it has in common.

Can you please signal the statement that they wanted to make the game a carbon copy of the table top?

They didn't. This is a 40k game because it happens in its universe, uses its organization and units. It just doesn't represent them the way you want them.

Don't you tell me, boyo. There are people that really believe Tau ALWAYS neuter human subjects instead of some unruly ones (like it's shown in DoW 1).

 Rippy wrote:
...The fact you can upgrade whole units to have the same weapon, IE all plasma or flamer etc...

...As opposed to the tabletop, in which it's never, ever possible to field a Legion Tactical Support Squad with all plasma guns?

(Not defending DoW3 in general, but this specific complaint seems silly to me...)

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
...The fact you can upgrade whole units to have the same weapon, IE all plasma or flamer etc...

...As opposed to the tabletop, in which it's never, ever possible to field a Legion Tactical Support Squad with all plasma guns?

(Not defending DoW3 in general, but this specific complaint seems silly to me...)

Why? Because for a Chapter that's meant to follow the Codex that's really just ignoring it. Tactical support squads vanished 10 thousand years ago.

This isn't really news, but it's funny to hear how ridiculous some of the stuff is.

Why the surprise? A snowball has a better chance in hell before GW ever gives rights to make a carbon copy of the TT game on PC. Their model sales is game over if they ever did. Imagine being able to play the game without sacrficing your morgage payments....

It's not that bad.

From what I've seen, only Angelos is doing flips. The other units and terminators behave much more naturally for the Space Marines.

It's really only the epic units that feel out of place from what I've played and it's one of the few things I truly dislike about the game overall. It would have been much better if none of the big elites were in the game.

My complaints lean more toward the RTS side of things. That there aren't enough endgame units and the fully upgraded early game units don't hold up well against the end game stuff like vehicles. The big 9+ point elites aren't fun to use or play against.

 Rippy wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Examples? The worst I saw was that Space Marine flying around in his terminator armor.

The aesthetic is the big one. The voice acting of units, the way the units move, and the units purpose in the game. The fact you can upgrade whole units to have the same weapon, IE all plasma or flamer etc.

Shock horror! New Dawn of War game just like all previous Dawn of War games, does not use canon Astartes TO&E! News at 11!

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Examples? The worst I saw was that Space Marine flying around in his terminator armor.

Snip

Can you please signal the statement that they wanted to make the game a carbon copy of the table top?

They didn't. This is a 40k game because it happens in its universe, uses its organization and units. It just doesn't represent them the way you want them.

Correct. I wanted my 40k game to feel like 40k, hence my thread. Only reason I said fluff and tabletop is because it represents neither.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gashrog wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Examples? The worst I saw was that Space Marine flying around in his terminator armor.

Snip

Shock horror! New Dawn of War game just like all previous Dawn of War games, does not use canon Astartes TO&E! News at 11!

I felt many elements of the previous games captured the feel well. No need to be a rude dude



Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
...The fact you can upgrade whole units to have the same weapon, IE all plasma or flamer etc...

...As opposed to the tabletop, in which it's never, ever possible to field a Legion Tactical Support Squad with all plasma guns?

(Not defending DoW3 in general, but this specific complaint seems silly to me...)

Why? Because for a Chapter that's meant to follow the Codex that's really just ignoring it. Tactical support squads vanished 10 thousand years ago.

Exactly, non-codex marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Why the surprise? A snowball has a better chance in hell before GW ever gives rights to make a carbon copy of the TT game on PC. Their model sales is game over if they ever did. Imagine being able to play the game without sacrficing your morgage payments....

I didn't want a tabletop simulator, but I did want a game that felt true to the 40k universe.

i haven't played the game but I agree with the sentiment. Playing a fluffy GW inspired game can be a ton of fun. I still remember my shadow of the horned rat and dark omen games : )
They offer something table top simulator or the actual board game can't supply us.

You mean Tactical Marines squads function as they actually should and you're complaining?

Make them like the tabletop and they'd be complete garbage.

None of them did-- DoW1 and DoW2 were both very anti-fluff in their own ways, and both required heavy modification to match the lore-- which is what happened in both cases, for those who really had to have the games be more exactly fluff-like some fans made rather high quality mods to make them so. And none of them were even CLOSE to the tabletop-- and frankly for a real-time strategy game that's for the best.

So... what's your point and what's the point of this thread's existence and why couldn't it be put in the general DoW3 thread?

Personally quite worried about dow3 from what I've seen. I liked dow1 and adored 2 and retribution. They hit the nail right on the head for me but this looks.....not right.
Im looking at it like almost a moba rather than an semi-rts which dow2 was and most definitely far removed from dow1.

It's probably best described as a cross between DoW1's scale and base management, DoW2's hero units (in the form of "elites"), with some aspects from a generic MOBA thrown in to both balance it and differentiate it from most RTS games. But it's still an RTS game, with base construction and command of an army in real time-- your units don't move through lanes automatically like in a MOBA, you control them yourself.

The one thing I dislike most about it is the lack of a cover mechanic like in DoW2.

I did my Forbidden Lore mod for DoW2 for this exact reason. DoW3 looks so horrible I don't think it will be salvageable at all.

There's already a DOW 3 thread, why bother with another?