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Made in ca
Bored Commorite Citizen




Commorragh

Are there any loyalist space marine legions that are more loyal to their Primarchs than to the Emperor?

And alternatively are there any CSM legions that would listen to their Primarchs over the Chaos Gods? Or is that matter a bit more complicated, considering ruinous powers.

   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Schadenfreudig wrote:
Are there any loyalist space marine legions that are more loyal to their Primarchs than to the Emperor?
The White Scars seemed very on the fence, as did the Dark Angels. I think the Wolves would also follow Russ over the Emperor.
I think most Legions had a greater loyalty to their Primarch than the Emperor, but thankfully half of those Legions were not tested on it.
I think in every Legion there would be Emperor lovers over their Primarch, but they'd be in the minority, as were many Astartes in the traitor legions.

And alternatively are there any CSM legions that would listen to their Primarchs over the Chaos Gods? Or is that matter a bit more complicated, considering ruinous powers.
The Black Legion chose Abaddon over the promise of the gods, as did many Thousand Sons to Magnus. The Alpha Legion certainly, and probably the Night Lords, if Curze was alive. However, the Primarchs of the Traitor Legions lost a lot of their influence of their entire Legion. Most of now more than happy to work for the gods, rather than lead their own campaigns. Fulgrim is getting OD-d on everything, Lorgar is fulfilling his dream as an author, Magnus is talking to Tzeentch most of the time, and Angron lost control of his whole Legion on Skalathrax.


They/them

 
   
Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 Schadenfreudig wrote:
Are there any loyalist space marine legions that are more loyal to their Primarchs than to the Emperor?
The White Scars seemed very on the fence, as did the Dark Angels. I think the Wolves would also follow Russ over the Emperor.
I think most Legions had a greater loyalty to their Primarch than the Emperor, but thankfully half of those Legions were not tested on it.
I think in every Legion there would be Emperor lovers over their Primarch, but they'd be in the minority, as were many Astartes in the traitor legions.

And alternatively are there any CSM legions that would listen to their Primarchs over the Chaos Gods? Or is that matter a bit more complicated, considering ruinous powers.
The Black Legion chose Abaddon over the promise of the gods, as did many Thousand Sons to Magnus. The Alpha Legion certainly, and probably the Night Lords, if Curze was alive. However, the Primarchs of the Traitor Legions lost a lot of their influence of their entire Legion. Most of now more than happy to work for the gods, rather than lead their own campaigns. Fulgrim is getting OD-d on everything, Lorgar is fulfilling his dream as an author, Magnus is talking to Tzeentch most of the time, and Angron lost control of his whole Legion on Skalathrax.


That's an interesting call.
White Scars I can understand but Space Wolves and Dark Angels are a big call.
Bjorn the Fell-Handed gets woken up every century for the Wolves' Great Feast and his first order of business is to yell at the gathered Space Wolves for worshipping the Big E and Russ as gods.

Half the Dark Angels are traitors to their own Primarch, nobody knows which half, most people don't care.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




The Night Lords never listened to the chaos gods, though they're certainly depraved. They lost their primarch, but they justify everyone bit of their actions, accordingly. Mortarion lost the majority of his legion due to his inactivity, though I'm sure they would rise to a singular cause if he said as much. The Death Guard pretty much splintered off to do their own thing when he achieved daemonhood and decided to spend it being morose.
   
Made in us
Fighter Pilot





I would say most legions are more loyal to their primarch than the emperor. It's one of the dangers of armies only under the command of one authority for so long (see Roman Civil Wars). I think if some of the loyalist primarchs had wanted to turn traitor/had legit gripes, most of their legions would follow them.

Here's to me in my sober mood,
When I ramble, sit, and think.
Here's to me in my drunken mood,
When I gamble, sin, and drink.
And when my days are over,
And from this world I pass,
I hope they bury me upside down,
So the world can kiss my ass!
 
   
Made in au
Infiltrating Broodlord





Most spacemarines are loyal to their primarch over the Imperial Cult
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife




The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops

 Flanker wrote:
I would say most legions are more loyal to their primarch than the emperor. It's one of the dangers of armies only under the command of one authority for so long (see Roman Civil Wars). I think if some of the loyalist primarchs had wanted to turn traitor/had legit gripes, most of their legions would follow them.


Other than the Minotaurs, how many Chapters do you think would stay loyal if their formerly loyal Primarch showed up in the 40k timeline wearing horns and an eight-pointed star and said, "Time to go sack Terra now." ?

 Jon Garrett wrote:
Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.

"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."

"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"

"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."

"...Kunnin'."
 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




It's clearly stated that most Chapter have developped a cult of personality around their Primarch. They rever them in god-like fashion. Even in the Great Crusade, they worshiped their Primarch in a rather unhealthy way.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Flanker wrote:
I would say most legions are more loyal to their primarch than the emperor. It's one of the dangers of armies only under the command of one authority for so long (see Roman Civil Wars). I think if some of the loyalist primarchs had wanted to turn traitor/had legit gripes, most of their legions would follow them.


Other than the Minotaurs, how many Chapters do you think would stay loyal if their formerly loyal Primarch showed up in the 40k timeline wearing horns and an eight-pointed star and said, "Time to go sack Terra now." ?


I think a better question is how many chapters would accept that horn wearing chaos worshipper was really their primarch

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker





Norfolk, VA

I definitely agree with the Space Wolves following Russ over the Emperor. It's a part of their entire culture to follow their leader to whatever ends he takes them to. Luckily Russ was loyal to the Emperor.

2700 - The Fierce Eye's Hammer
2000 - Grukk's Wrekkin Krew
1850-Hellcrusha's Fist 
   
Made in us
Fighter Pilot





 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Flanker wrote:
I would say most legions are more loyal to their primarch than the emperor. It's one of the dangers of armies only under the command of one authority for so long (see Roman Civil Wars). I think if some of the loyalist primarchs had wanted to turn traitor/had legit gripes, most of their legions would follow them.


Other than the Minotaurs, how many Chapters do you think would stay loyal if their formerly loyal Primarch showed up in the 40k timeline wearing horns and an eight-pointed star and said, "Time to go sack Terra now." ?


I thought OP meant "legions" as in 30k legions. For 40k, since none of the current SM ever fought alongside their primarchs or knew them personally (apart from Bjorn), it would be tougher, but doable for some. The First founding chapters and their immediate successors (UMs and their chapters in Ultramar, BA and Flesh Tearers, etc.) would be more likely to follow their genefathers, I would assess. Russ could say "I've found the cure to our genecurse, follow me," while Guilliman could say "The IoM has become a bloated shadow of what it used to be. It will never be the utopia the Emperor wanted. I still know his dream and will establish it here in Ultramar." Chapters from later foundings whose geneseed aren't confirmed or known would be less likely to follow a returned and corrupt primarch, imo.

Here's to me in my sober mood,
When I ramble, sit, and think.
Here's to me in my drunken mood,
When I gamble, sin, and drink.
And when my days are over,
And from this world I pass,
I hope they bury me upside down,
So the world can kiss my ass!
 
   
 
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