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Hey guys, just trying to find a reason why full fledged Space Marines might wear Scout armor into battle. I know about Space Wolves putting veterans into battle as scouts, and after doing some Googleing I found out about a Deathwatch variant.

What circumstances could bring a force of Marines to "downgrade" their protection other than pure stealth? Is there any terrain (like a swamp world with soft, spongy ground) that would make it easier to fight in a lighter weight armor?

There are several instenses in which Space Marines would benefit from being more stealthy, but covert operation isn't their role that's why they use their newest recruits to do such a job. Some chapter make exception like the Raptors, Space Wolves or the Deathwatch. Space Marines, like all other institution of the Imperium, are strongly dogmatic. They will do very unpractical things simply because its their way of doing things and it can't be questioned. So why would yours do it? Because that's their tradition.

Scout seagents are full battle brothers if I remember correctly. So that's one case.

If a chapter had chapter tactics that were extremely focused on stealth then they might have more dedicated scout companies. I don't know of any examples though.

I suppose if a chapter did something to annoy the priests of Mars and stopped getting replacement parts for their armor they could be forced to use scout equipment more. Or if they lost the vast majority of their numbers and didn't have any replacement sets.

As for swamps I don't know. In the first or second horus heresy novel they do a fair bit of fighting in a swamp and don't seem that hindered by it. Even horus is there and he would weighes more than a normal space marine. Then again the swamp was a by product of chaos and the chaos gods kind of wanted horus to make it through the swamp as part of their plot for him.

If they did have a fight an enemy in a swamp or somewhere where they could not walk they would probably use skimmers or some hitherto unknown ancient pre heresy rowing boats.

cyrus from dawn of war 2 does not wear full armor (I think)

Hmm, darn, I have been wanting to field a full scout army and wanted to try and come up with some good fluff as to why there would be such a large number of 10th Company marines without power armored marines in one such area, or some reason why a Chapter might send in force of carapace armoured full fledged marines with suppressed weapons.

Given how pragmatic the Raptors are it could be plausible for entire companies of them or chapters similar to use scout armour on missions that suit it.

A player could definitely do a homebrew chapter that has an unorthodox focus on scouting, you could combine that with bikes and other fast attack vehicles, painting camouflage/olive drab on each unit...in fact that sounds really cool when I picture it in my mind.

Angels of Wrath (Dark Angels successor), noted in Citadel Journal 22 was almost completely reduced to 10th company. With little equipment they relied heavily on using scout armour.

SpookyRuben wrote:
Angels of Wrath (Dark Angels successor), noted in Citadel Journal 22 was almost completely reduced to 10th company. With little equipment they relied heavily on using scout armour.

Aha, that is more like it. Gives me some real ideas for a custom chapter.

Why not just run...scouts?

Telion
All Scout Sergeants
Cyrus
Vigilators in 30k
There's an example of Ultramarine 2nd Company Sergeant Vorolanus and four of his Tactical Marines donning Scout Armour during an infiltration mission on Black Reach.
Deathwatch are known to, usually for stealth reasons.
Space Wolves only put their elite men in Scout Armour.

Generally though, Scout Armour is used for stealth and infiltration. Weight is rarely an issue for Space Marines, seeing as they can walk easily underwater, and as Davin proves, they could walk on it's surface easily enough.

Power armour is really that efficient that Scout Armour is rarely needed unless for dedicated stealth.

Don't forget that there is easily 100 men in the Scout Company, so that would cover most basis' for an army. 100 Scouts or Scout Bikers is more than enough, no? Lead it with Telion, and you have a 10th Company based list for an Ultramarine successor Chapter.

If you want to get non-codex compliant, the Wolf Scouts of the Space Wolves are seasoned veterans who have chosen to move on to scouting rather than continue their role on the front lines.

 Elbows wrote:
Why not just run...scouts?

As constructive as this reply is, the reason I asked was really just for clarification, and doing that thing where people make their own chapters and fluff.

Possibly have them wearing a non standard suit of scout armor that doesn't have any Imperial iconography while attached to an Inquisitor posing as a Rogue Trader who is collecting artifacts for research and preservation. Could make Imperial/Inquisitorial involvement easier to deny in a scenario where things don't go according to plan, or they are operating against other Imperial units/citizens that might be doing nefarious deeds.


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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Telion
All Scout Sergeants
Cyrus
Vigilators in 30k
There's an example of Ultramarine 2nd Company Sergeant Vorolanus and four of his Tactical Marines donning Scout Armour during an infiltration mission on Black Reach.
Deathwatch are known to, usually for stealth reasons.
Space Wolves only put their elite men in Scout Armour.

Generally though, Scout Armour is used for stealth and infiltration. Weight is rarely an issue for Space Marines, seeing as they can walk easily underwater, and as Davin proves, they could walk on it's surface easily enough.

Power armour is really that efficient that Scout Armour is rarely needed unless for dedicated stealth.

Don't forget that there is easily 100 men in the Scout Company, so that would cover most basis' for an army. 100 Scouts or Scout Bikers is more than enough, no? Lead it with Telion, and you have a 10th Company based list for an Ultramarine successor Chapter.

Now, those are some good examples I haven't heard of, thank you. Really want to have fun converting and kit bashing some scouts in non standard gear for some fun army ideas.

Vet Scout sgt Telion of the ultramarines is a full battle brother - but prefers to wear the scout armour.

He was even a codex unit.

 Imperial_grunt wrote:
Given how pragmatic the Raptors are it could be plausible for entire companies of them or chapters similar to use scout armour on missions that suit it.

A player could definitely do a homebrew chapter that has an unorthodox focus on scouting, you could combine that with bikes and other fast attack vehicles, painting camouflage/olive drab on each unit...in fact that sounds really cool when I picture it in my mind.

That was one idea I had been throwing around in my head in addition to the Inquisition tie in earlier in this thread. After reading about the Raptors, I got some interesting ideas in my head. It would be different to see a force of Space Marines that isn't brightly colored and wearing a more military style uniform. Doing things like capturing high value targets to get information for their campaign, which might be a bit above what an inexperienced scout might not be able to handle or ready for.


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 chromedog wrote:
Vet Scout sgt Telion of the ultramarines is a full battle brother - but prefers to wear the scout armour.

He was even a codex unit.

Telion is one of my all time favorite Space Marine characters. Definitely has an interesting story to him.

The reason that marines don't run around in scout armor is because it is not their duty. Space marines are shock troopers. It is their job to show up, beat the living hell out of all the difficult targets, then get out. Scouting is handled by other groups, be they inquisition or IG or what have you. They are summoned BECAUSE of the threat. They then deploy and eliminate it. They want to be seen, as it demoralizes the enemy. There are chapters who employ other tactics, but their names escape me. They actually painted their armor in camo patterns instead of bright colors. But space marines, in general, exist to bring glory to the emperor and righteous retribution to his foes.

Space Wolves Wolf Scouts.

Fluffwise becoming a Wolf Scout is very desirable, Wolf Scouts are assassins and saboteurs with full independence to act as they see fit. Being in small numbered, lighweight units opens up many opportunities for crazy heroics and ambushes.

On the tabletop they're an expensive and useless Elite.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 Imperial_grunt wrote:
Given how pragmatic the Raptors are it could be plausible for entire companies of them or chapters similar to use scout armour on missions that suit it.

A player could definitely do a homebrew chapter that has an unorthodox focus on scouting, you could combine that with bikes and other fast attack vehicles, painting camouflage/olive drab on each unit...in fact that sounds really cool when I picture it in my mind.

That was one idea I had been throwing around in my head in addition to the Inquisition tie in earlier in this thread. After reading about the Raptors, I got some interesting ideas in my head. It would be different to see a force of Space Marines that isn't brightly colored and wearing a more military style uniform. Doing things like capturing high value targets to get information for their campaign, which might be a bit above what an inexperienced scout might not be able to handle or ready for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chromedog wrote:
Vet Scout sgt Telion of the ultramarines is a full battle brother - but prefers to wear the scout armour.

He was even a codex unit.

Telion is one of my all time favorite Space Marine characters. Definitely has an interesting story to him.

Yeah, though who says Raptor scouts have to always be the neophytes? It wouldn't be out of the question for seasoned Raptors to don scout army in droves for special missions given the chapters nature.

EDIT: Disregard the bit above I think in your last sentence you where actually agreeing with what I said, sorry.