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Hello everyone. So I was wondering what were your hopes and fears for the upcoming edition of W40k about army composition, special rules, phases, etc. (anything, really).
In my case, I have three big hopes :
1-Chaos being more than a ''okay'' thing.
2-GW being less Imperium centric.
3-Not being forced to buy FW stuff to play Tau at a competitive level.

Hopes...

No army will be overtly overpowered.
New rules and system will encourage diversity of units than of spamming units
Lore friendly armies will be attractive even if not wholly competitive.
Campaigns will be much more fun and less taxing on hosters to make them good

Fears...

The game will be AOS 40k. More specifically, advanced tactics, strategies and rules mechanics will be done away with to create a small skirmish game aimed towards children.

With the recent admission, they have redone every unit and every unit now has specials rules for each unit that they may have just clusterfucked the game. I have five armies. With USRs gone, this is going to be horrible to learn.

Vehicles will be gak. Vehicles were already the easiest thing to kill in the game (its harder to kill a 10 man guardsmen squad in cover than a Leman Russ). Now every unit in the game can blow up every unit in the game. Note, without further detail, this might not be as bad as it sounds.

They remove comparative stats. This is seeming to be more and more the case. Weapon Skill, Strength, toughness, initiative charts, and moral, may all be removed and replaced with a simple d6 requirement and no interaction of your opponent's model.

We shall wait and see what happens next.

Hopes:

We'll be seeing a lot less Eldar and Tau.
Formations stick around.
We get frequent balancing.
No plastic sisters.

Fears:

Units become homogeneous.
The game becomes too simple.
Dice rolls have more of an impact on victory than tactics or list building.
We get plastic sisters before updated CSM models.
Guilliman sticks around.
Slaanesh gets Squatted.

No plastic sisters in the hope section? What are you an internet being that feeds off of QQ? The sister's players are watching and judging you as we speak

My hopes;

Variation in units and armies, I know there will always be a strongest unit or a best comp, but my hope is that other units and other comps are close enough to allow personal preference to be a much bigger factor in competitive list building. In 7th the guy who plays Deathwing is a loon, maybe in 8th even if it's not the best list it can still kick some butt and stand a decent chance of winning if it's played well.

More freedom in list building, I like Rites of war in 30k because they give you options rather than telling you how to build. I'm hoping the new force org charts follow a similar vein.

Old/less popular armies getting some time in the sun, I'd love to see more people playing armies like chaos, Nids, orks, and grey knights that 7th ed basically forgot about.

My Fears

This scale of rules changes could affect the flavor/theme of armies, they could go completely out of left field.

The community breaks the game in some horrible ways very early in its life, and the rest of the edition is spent trying to band-aid the problems

There is some faux pas on GWs part that makes the community avoid the game regardless of its merits.

Fears:

Templates being xD6 of hits, they should really be D2 or D3's, with the total maximum being the same (basically, I fear a blast would become 1D6 hits, I think it should be either 3D2 or 2D3)

Rending values being low.

These two things would affect the armies I play the most, and it would be a very negative effect.

Hopes:

Hope is the first step on the road to disapointement.

No more codex not equal to no power creep.
To prevent power creep GW needs to publish their army rules online, quickly errata imbalance and remove writing rules to push sales. This will never happen because they already brainwashed everyone that buying the new codex is normal.

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:
Hopes:

We'll be seeing a lot less Eldar and Tau.
Formations stick around.
We get frequent balancing.
No plastic sisters.

Fears:

Units become homogeneous.
The game becomes too simple.
Dice rolls have more of an impact on victory than tactics or list building.
We get plastic sisters before updated CSM models.
Guilliman sticks around .
Slaanesh gets Squatted.

You will burn at an Inquisition stake for those two bits of heresy, however, I totally agree with the rest.

A shakeup in the local player base. I'd like a lot of players who stopped playing to come back along with me and a bunch of the scummiest WAAC "that guys" to decide that this new edition isn't for them. This is a local issue, but it is something I hope for.

I hope that it has the best of AoS without being what people fear about AoS. After playing AoS after being invited to do so by some friends, I've come to realize that I had the wrong idea about what it was and I'm guessing that a lot of the people who have worries about 40k being too much like AoS might actually be worried about it becoming too much like an imaginary version of AoS that doesn't exist except in their fears. That said, there are elements of AoS that might not be as good for a sci-fi game as a fantasy one, so I don't want a 1:1 compatible rules set like the way Warmachine and Hordes are.

That they put tons of effort to support people to play in the Narrative mode. That having a general guidelines in their quicker, looser points system will give people the confidence they need to take a cool scenario and change the forces to the models they have rather than just sticking with line em up no scenario meeting engagements.

The only fear is that once the launch pays off they decide that since they're not gearing up for a big launch, all this customer communication, listening to feedback, yearly updated rules and points values to fix things, and general "This is New Games Workshop™" self awareness goes away. That they revert to the worst of the Kirby era and decide they don't need to hear from their customers, nothing should ever be free and they'll tell you what you should like, not listen to you and then make what you like. If that approach comes back, I am gone. So fast.

1 Chaos being badass (they deserve it, especially Khorne!)
2 Really hope that Space Wolves keeps their signature role of top placement in melee prowess in 8th, with their Wulfen and Arjac Shieldbrothers
3 Tau, Eldar becomes an exciteing opponent and not frustrating
4. I hope Strenth, Toughnes is still around.
5. I fear that it becomes alittle bland all around.

What I want:

- A fairly balanced game.
- Game time about 90-120 minutes.
- Typical army size similar to what it was in 5th (i.e., 50ish models being the norm, and deviations from that meant an elite army or a horde army)
- Retain possibility to personalize/upgrade/fiddle with units. Composition, equipment, etc.
- Rewarding fluffier armies, and punishing fluff abominations.

Hopes:

A clean balanced system that the player base finds solid and cant complain about- or at least have minimal complaining.

Choas being a threat we can see and not just something we're told about inn meta.

Fears:

Sisters getting bad rules and getting done over by core mechabics vecause they're T3 on PA abd not T4.

Flamer template weapons getting fethed up, making sisters even weaker and their staple weapon a joke no one fields.

Just...anything thatll make my only precious little snowflakes a punching bag on the table (and the fluff).

Hopes: that varied armies becomes the norm

fears: that like in AoS psychology is removed from the game.

Hopes:
- Faster gameplay with fewer odd edge/corner cases.
- Psychic powers, warlord traits, etc become predictable and something you can reliably strategize around.
- Less swingy "you're totally invincible until you just die" crap.
- Buff the UP stuff, nerf the OP stuff, in such a way as to make everything at least usable. Fewer no-brainers, less garbage. (Serious love for DE, BA and Orks please. Dial back SM, DA and CWE, please. Make Tau less "screw you, I ignore that" and make Daemons less "utterly dominant or else total crap", please.)
- Plastic Sisters (I can dream, right?)

Fears:
- That we'll get AoS' horrible formatting that makes it a pain to see what a unit has for special rules at a glance.
- Too much homogenization.
- Balance of assault/shooting will be wrong such that you have to specialize in one or the other, leaving no room for generalists.
- Book missions will still suck.
- We'll still have a bunch of rules that cost energy and do nothing in the name of fluffiness. (Daemons and their everything, aargh.)

Hopes:
Less rule checking
Less time doing the Whats your WS? Mines x, yours is y, ok i hit on 4 no sorry 3s because im above you, you hit on 5s....no wait sorry 4s still double +1 rule
Less dealing with scattering
Less Does this rule trump that rule
Less Pyker BS
No more super friends
Slightly shorter games, 1850 average time was like 4 hours.

Fears:
All the space marine armies are going to become homogenized, with no real difference between chapters other then colors.

They Adopt the overwatch rule from SW, meaning you need to give up shooting and moving to do it.

Game will turn into a brawl game and objectives wont mean much like in AoS

Game turns into a who gets their wombo combo off first

Armies like Ork, nids, and necrons go the way of death in AoS, all but squated.

The game will turn into SM vs Chaos SM and all the other factions just happen to exist. (Which i know there is a lot of that, but compaired to AoS which is only order vs Chaos, and even then, mostly Stormcast and bloodbound.)

 Tsol wrote:


Vehicles will be gak. Vehicles were already the easiest thing to kill in the game (its harder to kill a 10 man guardsmen squad in cover than a Leman Russ). Now every unit in the game can blow up every unit in the game. Note, without further detail, this might not be as bad as it sounds.

They remove comparative stats. This is seeming to be more and more the case. Weapon Skill, Strength, toughness, initiative charts, and moral, may all be removed and replaced with a simple d6 requirement and no interaction of your opponent's model.

We shall wait and see what happens next.

Vehicles will be substantially harder to kill than they are now. You most likely won't be able to one shot them at all. One out of 50 lasgun shots doing a wound to a 20-30 wound model doesn't really amount to much.

Also, they've stated that S and T are in at the least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

Game will turn into a brawl game and objectives wont mean much like in AoS

Game turns into a who gets their wombo combo off first

Armies like Ork, nids, and necrons go the way of death in AoS, all but squated.

No army should be able to shoot other army of the table in 2 turns. If this would be allow, you should make it possible to charge 1st turn and wipe the shooting units.

I would go even as far as to say that no unit should be able to shoot another unit of equal price off the table in one turn. In some special cases this could be allowed if:
1. Range of this shooting is very short, making it easier to avoid.
2. The unit is absolute garbage in close combat.
3. The unit is real glass cannon and dies easily to counter-fire.

Which brings me to my second hope:
Do not make units that shoot hard, cc hard, while being extremely difficult to kill. I'm looking at Eldar Wraithknight now. These kind of units make playing very unrewarding for the opponent if they didn't happen to build specific counter to this unit.

Third hope:
You have to have sort of balance where there is no units that are all around super effective while the unit remains tough that enemy needs to counter it in very specific manner. These kinds of all-around good units which are hard to counter also make the playing and list-building very unrewarding when you are forced to do something but your opponent can happily build his list the way he wants.

Hopes:
They reveal that this was all an elaborate April Fool's joke. Of all the things announced, like, 2 of them have any appeal to me, and 90% sound like steps straight backwards.

Fears:
That everything they've officially announced is true.

 Backspacehacker wrote:


Game will turn into a brawl game and objectives wont mean much like in AoS

And that's why you're bad at the game.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Hopes:
They reveal that this was all an elaborate April Fool's joke. Of all the things announced, like, 2 of them have any appeal to me, and 90% sound like steps straight backwards.

Well, you're technically correct. Most of the things they've announced were present in early editions of 40k, in particular 2nd

Waaaghpower wrote:
Hopes:
They reveal that this was all an elaborate April Fool's joke. Of all the things announced, like, 2 of them have any appeal to me, and 90% sound like steps straight backwards.

Fears:
That everything they've officially announced is true.

Basically this. Except that none of it appeals to me.

 ik0ner wrote:
Hopes: that varied armies becomes the norm

fears: that like in AoS psychology is removed from the game.

I'm gonna miss morale
Sucks that it's just extra wounds now, no more getting a couple of key kills on a big, low LD unit and forcing a retreat...
And so much for making morale something an army could take advantage of! I was still hopeful of seeing armies like Dark Eldar actually get some tactical use out of leadership manipulation.

 Jambles wrote:

 ik0ner wrote:
Hopes: that varied armies becomes the norm

fears: that like in AoS psychology is removed from the game.

I'm gonna miss morale
Sucks that it's just extra wounds now, no more getting a couple of key kills on a big, low LD unit and forcing a retreat...
And so much for making morale something an army could take advantage of! I was still hopeful of seeing armies like Dark Eldar actually get some tactical use out of leadership manipulation.

Thats kinda what the extra wounds are.

its people freaking out and leaving.

not the whole unit though.

Honestly excited for this new edition. anything is better than what we have right now.

 Tsol wrote:
Hopes...

No army will be overtly overpowered.
New rules and system will encourage diversity of units than of spamming units
Lore friendly armies will be attractive even if not wholly competitive.
Campaigns will be much more fun and less taxing on hosters to make them good

Fears...

The game will be AOS 40k. More specifically, advanced tactics, strategies and rules mechanics will be done away with to create a small skirmish game aimed towards children.

With the recent admission, they have redone every unit and every unit now has specials rules for each unit that they may have just clusterfucked the game. I have five armies. With USRs gone, this is going to be horrible to learn.

Vehicles will be gak. Vehicles were already the easiest thing to kill in the game (its harder to kill a 10 man guardsmen squad in cover than a Leman Russ). Now every unit in the game can blow up every unit in the game. Note, without further detail, this might not be as bad as it sounds.

They remove comparative stats. This is seeming to be more and more the case. Weapon Skill, Strength, toughness, initiative charts, and moral, may all be removed and replaced with a simple d6 requirement and no interaction of your opponent's model.

We shall wait and see what happens next.

Can we please stop with pretending AoS is less tactical or strategic than 40k? Or that it's designed for children? 40k has been 2++ rerollable + invisibility for so long by now I'm not sure many people even remember what tactics are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:


Game will turn into a brawl game and objectives wont mean much like in AoS

And that's why you're bad at the game.

Hey backspace, wanna come to a aos tournament with me? We need a win pinata.

ERJAK wrote:

 Tsol wrote:
Hopes...

No army will be overtly overpowered.
New rules and system will encourage diversity of units than of spamming units
Lore friendly armies will be attractive even if not wholly competitive.
Campaigns will be much more fun and less taxing on hosters to make them good

Fears...

The game will be AOS 40k. More specifically, advanced tactics, strategies and rules mechanics will be done away with to create a small skirmish game aimed towards children.

With the recent admission, they have redone every unit and every unit now has specials rules for each unit that they may have just clusterfucked the game. I have five armies. With USRs gone, this is going to be horrible to learn.

Vehicles will be gak. Vehicles were already the easiest thing to kill in the game (its harder to kill a 10 man guardsmen squad in cover than a Leman Russ). Now every unit in the game can blow up every unit in the game. Note, without further detail, this might not be as bad as it sounds.

They remove comparative stats. This is seeming to be more and more the case. Weapon Skill, Strength, toughness, initiative charts, and moral, may all be removed and replaced with a simple d6 requirement and no interaction of your opponent's model.

We shall wait and see what happens next.

Can we please stop with pretending AoS is less tactical or strategic than 40k? Or that it's designed for children? 40k has been 2++ rerollable + invisibility for so long by now I'm not sure many people even remember what tactics are.

You bring that, I'll bring my Sisters of Silence or my Culexus, or I'll just tarpit you with zombies, or I'll just ignore you and camp all the objectives, or etc...
You act as though hard counters to these deathstars haven't existed for a long time.

Hopes:
It doesn´t turn into a burning trainwreck after a couple of books.
They fired the eldarguy and the tauguy.
They actually TALK to FW.

Fears:
It turns into a burning trainwreck after a couple of books, because nerv everything, buff Eldar and Tau.

They only update Guillimarines and Khorne for years.

They make out of the factions 20+ minifactions.

No SOB.

Hopes:
Every unit now is usable / useful to a somewhat decent degree. I often look on my rough riders, dark reapers and hormagaunts and weep at the layer of dust on them.
The core ruleset is fairly simple but the unit/army/character interactions then add more complexity.

Fears:
It gets overly simplified and tactical nuance is lost.
Rules bloat follows with the release of new codices and/or additional rulesets (planetstrike/CoD etc).

Rend making power armor useless is a concern. See 2nd ed.

A true dream of mine is that there is no meta BS. You shouldn't have to follow a strict list just to win a game. As long as points equal the same as your opponent then it should be about skill (within reason). So if I have HQ and a equal number of marines with rhinos and preds (because I just thought they looked cool and I wanted a more traditional army feel that day) I shouldn't have to put up with somebody who brought a strict list that gave them an advantage over me just because GW said so. Sometimes I just want to take a bunch of units I want to take and not have to worry if I take 5 more marines all my stuff will be unable to capture a point! This could be fixed it the game becomes more balanced, more tactical and relie less on rule bonuses GW set up to make you spend more money and luck. I shouldn't be punished for wanting the army I want!

 lolman1c wrote:
A true dream of mine is that there is no meta BS. You shouldn't have to follow a strict list just to win a game. As long as points equal the same as your opponent then it should be about skill (within reason). Sometimes I just want to take a bunch of units I want to take and not have to worry if I take 5 more marines all my stuff will be unable to capture a point!

Not the same list at every top 10 amiright?

 Desubot wrote:


Not the same list at every top 10 amiright?

I just want to bring the stuff I want! This whole "rewarding" people for themed armies scares me. Maybe some people don't want to theme an army and they want Ultramarine soldiers fighting alongside their blood angels without being punished for it. Or hell! Even if you use the same chapter! As a DA player I play them because I enjoy painting their colour scheme (the green, red and white). Maybe I don't want a bunch of bikes and terminators! Maybe I want to be tanky and bring heavy units! Why should I be punished for wanting that? As for the themed armies... isn't having a good looking organised army rewarding enough for some players?