And in other news, Teenagers re-enact Train Robberies in real life in California

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**Frazzled**

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/BART-takeover-robbery-50-to-60-teens-swarm-11094745.php

A recent string of robberies on BART trains took a frightening turn when dozens of juveniles swarmed an Oakland station over the weekend and commandeered a train car, forcing passengers to hand over bags and cell phones and leaving at least two with head injuries, witnesses told the transit agency.

The incident — the first of its kind in recent memory — occurred around 9:30 p.m. Saturday at Coliseum Station.

According to a police officials, witnesses said 40 to 60 juveniles flooded the station, jumped the fare gates and rushed to the second-story train platform. Some of the robbers apparently held open the doors of a Dublin-bound train car while others streamed inside, confronting and robbing and in some cases beating riders.

The juveniles “committed multiple strong-arm robberies of bags and cell phones,” said a police summary prepared after the incident. “At least two victims suffered head/facial injuries requiring medical attention.”

Alicia Trost, a BART spokeswoman, said Monday that seven robberies had occurred — with victims losing a purse, a duffel bag and five phones. Six people were robbed inside the train car, with a seventh confronted on the platform, she said.

The attack was quick, police reported, and the teenagers were able to retreat from the station and vanish into the surrounding East Oakland neighborhood before BART officers could respond. The train that was hit was held for about 15 minutes as authorities investigated the crime and tended to the injured.

“We are in the process of pulling all surveillance video and we will share with Oakland police, Oakland Unified School District and Oakland Housing Authority to see if they can help identify the minors,” Trost said. “We have had success with sharing images of juveniles with this group and identifying and making arrests in the past.”

**kronk**

"According to a police officials, witnesses said 40 to 60 juveniles flooded the station, jumped the fare gates and rushed to the second-story train platform. "

I would have never believed you could get that many teenagers to work together outside of a football field or cheer squad.

**NinthMusketeer**

kronk wrote:
"According to a police officials, witnesses said 40 to 60 juveniles flooded the station, jumped the fare gates and rushed to the second-story train platform. "

I would have never believed you could get that many teenagers to work together outside of a football field or cheer squad.

The only thing more difficult would be finding employment for them all.

**Frazzled**

kronk wrote:
"According to a police officials, witnesses said 40 to 60 juveniles flooded the station, jumped the fare gates and rushed to the second-story train platform. "

I would have never believed you could get that many teenagers to work together outside of a football field or cheer squad.

Flash robberies are not uncommon.

**Disciple of Fate**

This is one bizarre story. You would think in this day and age that all train stations have a ton of cameras as well as the train itself though. Do US trains have cameras? A lot of video material and some public help might go a long way to catch a few.

**NinthMusketeer**

Disciple of Fate wrote:
This is one bizarre story. You would think in this day and age that all train stations have a ton of cameras as well as the train itself though. Do US trains have cameras? A lot of video material and some public help might go a long way to catch a few.

Mentioned in the article that most of the security cameras were decoys.

**Disciple of Fate**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Disciple of Fate wrote:
This is one bizarre story. You would think in this day and age that all train stations have a ton of cameras as well as the train itself though. Do US trains have cameras? A lot of video material and some public help might go a long way to catch a few.
Mentioned in the article that most of the security cameras were decoys.

Yeah I read that part but nothing was really said about this train in particular, as they said they were replacing them with real ones. Also its a more general question about cameras, not just related to this case alone.

**Vaktathi**

40-60 peoole in SF manage to steal a grand total of a purse, a duffel bag, and half a dozen cell phones?

One would think with a platoon or twos worth of people theyd be snagging a whole lot more than that. Either way, marshalling that many people in and of itself is usually a good way to get noticed and tracked, thats a huge risk.

Something sounds off here.

Either way, sounds like the BART police have their work cut out for them.

**Frazzled**

Disciple of Fate wrote:
This is one bizarre story. You would think in this day and age that all train stations have a ton of cameras as well as the train itself though. Do US trains have cameras? A lot of video material and some public help might go a long way to catch a few.

They did. They weren't showing the video because the were minors. I am not certain how you find someone is not a minor. If you read the San Fran papers, there a lot of issues with what the PoPo will or won't show there.

On a personal note, I ride the bus (have been on the metro train here once). The thought of a flash mob thing on a bus is.. disconcerting. The thought of the amount of gunplay potentially going off on my morning bus is..yerp. I know there's at least one officer level Sheriff going to work on the bus not to mention others. Bad day at black rock.

**feeder**

Even if each person was taken for $100, that works out to $14 per hoodlum.

Crime indeed does not pay.

**CptJake**

feeder wrote:
Even if each person was taken for $100, that works out to $14 per hoodlum.

Crime indeed does not pay.

The stolen phones have value. Besides their use to coordinate other activities (and not be traceable to the new owners), many folks also store credit card/paypal info and other info of use to identity thieves as well as other criminals. For example, pictures can be sued for blackmail or extortion. Addresses and other 'contact' info have other uses and value.

**Disciple of Fate**

Frazzled wrote:
Disciple of Fate wrote:
This is one bizarre story. You would think in this day and age that all train stations have a ton of cameras as well as the train itself though. Do US trains have cameras? A lot of video material and some public help might go a long way to catch a few.

They did. They weren't showing the video because the were minors. I am not certain how you find someone is not a minor. If you read the San Fran papers, there a lot of issues with what the PoPo will or won't show there.

On a personal note, I ride the bus (have been on the metro train here once). The thought of a flash mob thing on a bus is.. disconcerting. The thought of the amount of gunplay potentially going off on my morning bus is..yerp. I know there's at least one officer level Sheriff going to work on the bus not to mention others. Bad day at black rock.

I'm assuming they might have identified a few of them as kids and made the assumption. Seems a bit strange to just blanket ban any material for public identification though. Maybe it was a mob of 10 year olds so they are sure?

When people try to rob you on the train in the Netherlands they frequently only do it when its packed, but pickpockets are more active on the station than inside the train. Luckily we don't really have to worry about guns in the equation though, but at the same time you would think if its 50 to 60 people would decide its better to not resists. This certainly seems like quite a unique incident as far as robbery goes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CptJake wrote:
feeder wrote:
Even if each person was taken for $100, that works out to $14 per hoodlum.

Crime indeed does not pay.

The stolen phones have value. Besides their use to coordinate other activities (and not be traceable to the new owners), many folks also store credit card/paypal info and other info of use to identity thieves as well as other criminals. For example, pictures can be sued for blackmail or extortion. Addresses and other 'contact' info have other uses and value.

Idk how it is in the US but phones here are also frequently connected to bank accounts and can be used to make small payments depending on the age of the phone (under 25 euro there is no verification needed).

**CptJake**

Lucky for the perps this guy wasn't on the train:

**Kap'n Krump**

From the title, I was really hoping that some teenagers had help up a train by riding up to it on horseback and holding up the conductor. This is decidedly less funny. Also, who is the guy in the above pic?

**CptJake**

Bernhard Goetz

**Gordon Shumway**

Frazzled wrote:
Disciple of Fate wrote:
This is one bizarre story. You would think in this day and age that all train stations have a ton of cameras as well as the train itself though. Do US trains have cameras? A lot of video material and some public help might go a long way to catch a few.

They did. They weren't showing the video because the were minors. I am not certain how you find someone is not a minor. If you read the San Fran papers, there a lot of issues with what the PoPo will or won't show there.

On a personal note, I ride the bus (have been on the metro train here once). The thought of a flash mob thing on a bus is.. disconcerting. The thought of the amount of gunplay potentially going off on my morning bus is..yerp. I know there's at least one officer level Sheriff going to work on the bus not to mention others. Bad day at black rock.

Man, as a libertarian, I would have thought you would have thought the idea of cameras recording people would have been more offensive to you. You aren't really libertarian, are you Frazz, just anti rabble rousers.

**Orlanth**

'Muricans, now available in locust!

**Grey Templar**

Disciple of Fate wrote:
This is one bizarre story. You would think in this day and age that all train stations have a ton of cameras as well as the train itself though. Do US trains have cameras? A lot of video material and some public help might go a long way to catch a few.

Even if you have video of the crime, which they do I believe, it only really does any good if you actually find them.

Sadly, with a group as large as this, it will be difficult to track any of them down specifically. The camera is really only going to be helpful once you've dragged any of them to court.

Though in this case, its possible that there were only 3-4 individuals looking to rob stuff and they just convinced a bunch of other youth by saying "hey we should do a flash mob here at this time!" to act as a coverup. Wouldn't be the first time I think that this sort of thing was done.

**Disciple of Fate**

Grey Templar wrote:
Disciple of Fate wrote:
This is one bizarre story. You would think in this day and age that all train stations have a ton of cameras as well as the train itself though. Do US trains have cameras? A lot of video material and some public help might go a long way to catch a few.

Even if you have video of the crime, which they do I believe, it only really does any good if you actually find them.

Sadly, with a group as large as this, it will be difficult to track any of them down specifically. The camera is really only going to be helpful once you've dragged any of them to court.

Though in this case, its possible that there were only 3-4 individuals looking to rob stuff and they just convinced a bunch of other youth by saying "hey we should do a flash mob here at this time!" to act as a coverup. Wouldn't be the first time I think that this sort of thing was done.

At least if you can identify one or a few you might get the ball rolling and convince them to name the others.

The story however seems to indicate less of a flash mob due to the obvious nature of strong-arming people out of their possessions, it would be hard not to notice that.

**Grey Templar**

Well video identification is often fairly sketchy. You usually rely on getting lucky with someone at the scene either being caught or identifying one of the assailants.

With this, you're looking for unidentified suspects in one of the largest metropolitan areas in the world. And all you have are some, what are likely low quality, videos.

These guys could have come from clear across the other side of the Bay Area. BART covers a big area.

**Wyrmalla**

I'm assuming that this took place in a state where one passenger couldn't just didn't pull out their concealed carry and give the kids one look? Oh the world we live in...

Or on the flip of it. This didn't occur in the UK where every train carriage is covered by at least three cameras (god, off the top of my head the one I ride to work every day probably has 4-6 come to think of it).

**Grey Templar**

CA, and San Francisco at that. People who faint at even the mention or sight of a knife, let alone a gun.

But neither is it a Orwell's 1984 based social experiment.

**Eldarain**

kronk wrote:
"According to a police officials, witnesses said 40 to 60 juveniles flooded the station, jumped the fare gates and rushed to the second-story train platform. "

I would have never believed you could get that many teenagers to work together outside of a football field or cheer squad.

a favourite saying of my father when driving past grafitti vandalism etc:

"If you offered those pieces of gak minimum wage to do the same task they'd laugh in your face"

He was a pleasant fellow.

**Frazzled**

Wyrmalla wrote:
I'm assuming that this took place in a state where one passenger couldn't just didn't pull out their concealed carry and give the kids one look? Oh the world we live in...

Its San Francisco, so yes.

Or on the flip of it. This didn't occur in the UK where every train carriage is covered by at least three cameras (god, off the top of my head the one I ride to work every day probably has 4-6 come to think of it).

The cameras only matter if you're actually trying to catch them.

**Grey Templar**

Frazzled wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote:
I'm assuming that this took place in a state where one passenger couldn't just didn't pull out their concealed carry and give the kids one look? Oh the world we live in...

Its San Francisco, so yes.

Or on the flip of it. This didn't occur in the UK where every train carriage is covered by at least three cameras (god, off the top of my head the one I ride to work every day probably has 4-6 come to think of it).

The cameras only matter if you're actually trying to catch them.

Actually, cameras only matter if you actually have caught them via other methods. Cameras aren't some magical defense against crime where just because you video'd the incident you automatically can catch them. Cameras are really only useful when you've found a suspect and are trying to identify them and/or you're using the video in a court case.

**feeder**

Grey Templar wrote:
CA, and San Francisco at that. People who faint at even the mention or sight of a knife, let alone a gun.

But neither is it a Orwell's 1984 based social experiment.

San Fran birthed the thrash metal scene. It's not some wilting daisy.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Oakland is not San Francisco.

**Frazzled**

feeder wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
CA, and San Francisco at that. People who faint at even the mention or sight of a knife, let alone a gun.

But neither is it a Orwell's 1984 based social experiment.

San Fran birthed the thrash metal scene. It's not some wilting daisy.

Metallica and Megadeath would like to have a word with you about that.

It also birthed Flower Power. Fortunately it also helped create Janis Joplin.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Oakland is not San Francisco.

To the rest of the world, all you Bay Area cities look alike to us.

**feeder**

Frazzled wrote:
feeder wrote:

San Fran birthed the thrash metal scene. It's not some wilting daisy.

Metallica and Megadeath would like to have a word with you about that.

San Fran is where Metallica existed. MegaDave was kicked out of Metallica and started Megadeth in LA. Slayer is also from LA. LA usually gets lumped in with SF*.

But Metallica!! is a San Fran band, and thrash is Metallica**.

It also birthed Flower Power. Fortunately it also helped create Janis Joplin.

Yeah, say what you like about hippies***, but they make some damn good music. Grateful Dead, Hendrix, Joplin, the Doors, Joni Mitchell. The list goes on.

*vice versa, actually.
**also thrash is other bands. Lesser bands, but still.
***literally, whatever you like. They're usually too stoned to notice.

**Frazzled**

Hendrix and Joplin weren't hippies. The Doors were not even of this earth. Joni Mitchell...whatevs.

Location of Metallica starting off...Metallica...agrees with you.
https://metallica.com/band/history

Excellent. Did I ever mention my intense dislike for L.A.?