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saw this thread on 40k lore and i too have came to similar thoughts, I'll summarize it for here, but if you want to see the original thread

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/678lf9/custodes_contempt_for_primarchs/

In the Master of Mankind, it shows that the custodes have a contempt/dislike of the Primarchs

Ra, a custodes leader is having a conference with the Emperor

Ra goes on about how much he hates the primarchs, he thinks their spoiled, close minded, especially how they call the emperor "father"

also interesting to know that when Roboute came to Terra in Gathering Storm, it was the custodes that were warry of him first before letting him enter the Emperor's chamber,

I wonder if this has to do with the Custodes extreme loyalty to the Emperor, yet they feel like they get overshadowed by these 18 guys

interesting to think about

thats pretty much it exactly. the custodes think themselves the emperor's closest servants etc. so their perceptions are a little shaded. now that said, I suspect byt the 41st millinium the perceptions may be a little differant.

Having at least one Imperial faction not bending the knees to those uppity mutants (even if said faction are themselves mutants) would be nice.

Also they can legitimately tell inquisition no, or even bar them

Inside the palace they are senior. And are not under them as are directly emperors body guards.

But linking in. Unlike orimarchs they never where falmboyant or overly dramatic like primarchs. They where dedicated. Loyal and simpley mantainrd there watch.

Well, Primarchs are smart, they are dangerous and ambitious. They have been known to turn against The Emperor.

Of course they are wary of granting an audience to Big E to anyone, let alone someone who might be martially superior to them, considering the Emperor's current state.

The Custodes have one job and that is to protect the Emperor at all costs, nothing more and nothing less. They had personalities and personal feelings, of course, but they might as well be automata when it comes to their duty. The Primarchs had personality in abundance, faults, weaknesses. They were arrogant and shockingly, they were much more human than either Space Marines or Custodes, as they had all been raised by humans rather than fellow post-humans.


Post-Heresy, as in, RG meeting the Emperor in 40k, I suspect its to do with the Heresy. To this day, no Custodes has turned traitor. To have a Primarch (one of the beings who created the Heresy according to 99% of the characters in the universe), and one who has been dead for 8000+ years, walking up to the palace and demanding an audience, is a little shifty.

nareik wrote:
Well, Primarchs are smart, they are dangerous and ambitious. They have been known to turn against The Emperor.

Of course they are wary of granting an audience to Big E to anyone, let alone someone who might be martially superior to them, considering the Emperor's current state.

As lists go that's not a long one...
Espechily if Valador never died and turns out to command the 300.

 Deadshot wrote:
The Custodes have one job and that is to protect the Emperor at all costs, nothing more and nothing less. They had personalities and personal feelings, of course, but they might as well be automata when it comes to their duty. The Primarchs had personality in abundance, faults, weaknesses. They were arrogant and shockingly, they were much more human than either Space Marines or Custodes, as they had all been raised by humans rather than fellow post-humans.


Post-Heresy, as in, RG meeting the Emperor in 40k, I suspect its to do with the Heresy. To this day, no Custodes has turned traitor. To have a Primarch (one of the beings who created the Heresy according to 99% of the characters in the universe), and one who has been dead for 8000+ years, walking up to the palace and demanding an audience, is a little shifty.

I'm surprised they didn't immediately burn him down as some sort of Chaos demon/agent.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
The Custodes have one job and that is to protect the Emperor at all costs, nothing more and nothing less. They had personalities and personal feelings, of course, but they might as well be automata when it comes to their duty. The Primarchs had personality in abundance, faults, weaknesses. They were arrogant and shockingly, they were much more human than either Space Marines or Custodes, as they had all been raised by humans rather than fellow post-humans.


Post-Heresy, as in, RG meeting the Emperor in 40k, I suspect its to do with the Heresy. To this day, no Custodes has turned traitor. To have a Primarch (one of the beings who created the Heresy according to 99% of the characters in the universe), and one who has been dead for 8000+ years, walking up to the palace and demanding an audience, is a little shifty.

I'm surprised they didn't immediately burn him down as some sort of Chaos demon/agent.

Well as mentioned, Guilliman is likely one of the few beings who could take on a Custodes in hand to hand combat. Valdor could match Horus in melee, but Horus wasn't top-level melee Primarch, and Valdor was top-top-top dog custodes. Plus, they are not stupid. They would be extremely wary and cautious, but if they accidentally gunned-down a legitimate son of the Emperor, not only could they start a civil war but also seriously offend the Emperor and call themselves into question. Are they hiding something about the Emperor? Are they trying to take power by controlling the head of state? Are the Ultramarines traitors by following a chaotic resurrected Primarch? They are skilled in politics and strategy and going in guns blazing is moronic.

HtH is for amateurs. Its all the boom sticks they carry/heavy weapons. I'm sure they have plenty of heavy weapons-potentially AM level really old heavy weapons- to protect the Spazz Emprah.

No way would they have let him into the chamber alone without about two hundred melta pointed at his face.
"High I'm this giant dude who's supposedly 10,000 years old and I'd like to talk to the guy you guys have pledged your lives to guard, and I'd like to do that alone"
FREEEEEEM!

 Frazzled wrote:
HtH is for amateurs. Its all the boom sticks they carry/heavy weapons. I'm sure they have plenty of heavy weapons-potentially AM level really old heavy weapons- to protect the Spazz Emprah.

No way would they have let him into the chamber alone without about two hundred melta pointed at his face.
"High I'm this giant dude who's supposedly 10,000 years old and I'd like to talk to the guy you guys have pledged your lives to guard, and I'd like to do that alone"
FREEEEEEM!

Hand to hand has been vital since the Unification Wars. And Primarchs can survive rediculous things; titan level weaponry, buried alive, etc.

If they deemed him to be the true Guilliman, why not? The greatest hero of the Imperium since Sanguinius and the Emperor Himself, set up the modern Imperium and heir of the Emperor. Sure they'd be wary but if he insisted on being alone, they could hardly protest too much.

Disrespecting a Primarch openly and muttering behind his back are two very different things.

Remember that tosser in school that nobody liked but nobody hated enough to go out of their way to pick a fight with because he'd probably even whup the school bully? No? My School had one.
Guiliman is like that guy, only he has a thousand or more fawning superhuman idiots who have his back.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
HtH is for amateurs. Its all the boom sticks they carry/heavy weapons. I'm sure they have plenty of heavy weapons-potentially AM level really old heavy weapons- to protect the Spazz Emprah.

No way would they have let him into the chamber alone without about two hundred melta pointed at his face.
"High I'm this giant dude who's supposedly 10,000 years old and I'd like to talk to the guy you guys have pledged your lives to guard, and I'd like to do that alone"
FREEEEEEM!

Hand to hand has been vital since the Unification Wars. And Primarchs can survive rediculous things; titan level weaponry, buried alive, etc.

If they deemed him to be the true Guilliman, why not? The greatest hero of the Imperium since Sanguinius and the Emperor Himself, set up the modern Imperium and heir of the Emperor. Sure they'd be wary but if he insisted on being alone, they could hardly protest too much.

1. Why would they deem him to be Guiliman?
2. Irrelevant. Their job is to protect the Boss and be answerable to the Boss alone.

Primarchs are not titans, and its likely they have demon and greater titan killers at their disposal. If they can stop greater demons they can stop him. If they wanted to stop him, they would stop him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Remember that tosser in school that nobody liked but nobody hated enough to go out of their way to pick a fight with because he'd probably even whup the school bully? No? My School had one.
Guiliman is like that guy, only he has a thousand or more fawning superhuman idiots who have his back.

Are you suggesting he would attack the Custodes? Then that proves their point and whole of death would rain down on him.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
HtH is for amateurs. Its all the boom sticks they carry/heavy weapons. I'm sure they have plenty of heavy weapons-potentially AM level really old heavy weapons- to protect the Spazz Emprah.

No way would they have let him into the chamber alone without about two hundred melta pointed at his face.
"High I'm this giant dude who's supposedly 10,000 years old and I'd like to talk to the guy you guys have pledged your lives to guard, and I'd like to do that alone"
FREEEEEEM!

Hand to hand has been vital since the Unification Wars. And Primarchs can survive rediculous things; titan level weaponry, buried alive, etc.

If they deemed him to be the true Guilliman, why not? The greatest hero of the Imperium since Sanguinius and the Emperor Himself, set up the modern Imperium and heir of the Emperor. Sure they'd be wary but if he insisted on being alone, they could hardly protest too much.

1. Why would they deem him to be Guiliman?
2. Irrelevant. Their job is to protect the Boss and be answerable to the Boss alone.

Primarchs are not titans, and its likely they have demon and greater titan killers at their disposal. If they can stop greater demons they can stop him. If they wanted to stop him, they would stop him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Remember that tosser in school that nobody liked but nobody hated enough to go out of their way to pick a fight with because he'd probably even whup the school bully? No? My School had one.
Guiliman is like that guy, only he has a thousand or more fawning superhuman idiots who have his back.
Are you suggesting he would attack the Custodes? Then that proves their point and whole of death would rain down on him.

1: Perhaps he was able to recall specific details about a particular Custodes, or a detail only Guilliman would know. Perhaps his mighty Primarch aura gave him away.
2: Who has more authority? The Godfather's bodyguard or the Godfather's son (Al Pacino)? Who has the advantage in a fight? Guilliman is heir to the empire and demands an audience with his father. As long as his credentials check out there's no need not to, given that other, less trustyworthies get access such as the AdMech and Inquisition on ocassion.


So far, the only 100% confirmed Primarch kills, those being Guilliman, Horus, Sanguinius, Vulkan and Manus, have come from other Primarchs. Manus and Guiilliman killed by Fulgrim, Sangy by Horus, Horus by the Emps, Vulkan by Curze (although revived). Other deaths such as Dorn and Alpharius are unconfirmed, and Curze was rumoured to have allowed his assassination (being therefore suicide via assassin). My personal theory is that Primarchs are only able to be killed by other Primarchs. Evidence being said, along with Lorgar surviving direct him from a Plasma Blastgun, Fulgrim tanking a headshot, Angron being able to lift a titan, etc. The Emperor is said to struck a deal with the Gods to make the Primarchs, perhaps that's one of their innate abilities.

Except of course he's not the Boss's son., He's the boss's retirement project. No one around then can verify this person is that science project. Further, The Spazz Emprah is in the golden toilet because of these science projects.


No way can one realistically seeing the Custodes letting him get within danger range without a lot of fingers on a lot of triggers ready to impale/explode/melt/gauss/eletrocute him unless Da Emprah wished it (now that would be an interesting turn that has not been discussed, maybe the golden corpsicle wanted to speak with him).

 Frazzled wrote:
Except of course he's not the Boss's son., He's the boss's retirement project. No one around then can verify this person is that science project. Further, The Spazz Emprah is in the golden toilet because of these science projects.


No way can one realistically seeing the Custodes letting him get within danger range without a lot of fingers on a lot of triggers ready to impale/explode/melt/gauss/eletrocute him unless Da Emprah wished it (now that would be an interesting turn that has not been discussed, maybe the golden corpsicle wanted to speak with him).

A fact we know out of universe, but to every single damn person in the universe of 40k, the Primarchs are the sons of the Emperor and they DO carry his genetic codes. There are lots of ways to verify, and I'm not saying there wasn't a Mexican fifteen-way stand off as Guilliman tried to enter, but obviously the Custodes saw that he was in fact who he says he was (also, let's not forget that Guilliman hasn't aged a day, he's been in time stasis since his mortal wound, so its possible that some of the Custodes recognise him).

And of course, the Emperor could have commanded them to allow him to pass. Who's to say he doesn't have a way to psychically communicate? Or a text to speech device.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Disrespecting a Primarch openly and muttering behind his back are two very different things.

Remember that tosser in school that nobody liked but nobody hated enough to go out of their way to pick a fight with because he'd probably even whup the school bully? No? My School had one.
Guiliman is like that guy, only he has a thousand or more fawning superhuman idiots who have his back.

Oooh, working with that idea, Guiliman is a school yard Queen Bee?

Manipulative, not necessarily well liked, but fawned over and powerful because they are good at maintaining connections. You can't mess with them as they are ruthless enough to get the drop on people who have lost their usefulness or make themselves an enemy?

 Deadshot wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Except of course he's not the Boss's son., He's the boss's retirement project. No one around then can verify this person is that science project. Further, The Spazz Emprah is in the golden toilet because of these science projects.


No way can one realistically seeing the Custodes letting him get within danger range without a lot of fingers on a lot of triggers ready to impale/explode/melt/gauss/eletrocute him unless Da Emprah wished it (now that would be an interesting turn that has not been discussed, maybe the golden corpsicle wanted to speak with him).

A fact we know out of universe, but to every single damn person in the universe of 40k, the Primarchs are the sons of the Emperor and they DO carry his genetic codes. There are lots of ways to verify, and I'm not saying there wasn't a Mexican fifteen-way stand off as Guilliman tried to enter, but obviously the Custodes saw that he was in fact who he says he was (also, let's not forget that Guilliman hasn't aged a day, he's been in time stasis since his mortal wound, so its possible that some of the Custodes recognise him).

He may not have aged a day, but there's no Custodes around from then are there...they'd be kinda of...old.
I still wouldn't see them letting him in there all by himself absent the Emprah ordering it.

And of course, the Emperor could have commanded them to allow him to pass. Who's to say he doesn't have a way to psychically communicate? Or a text to speech device.

I think this 1) explains how he got in there; 2) why it took a day. Their medium of communication may have been through dudes flipping tarot cards.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Except of course he's not the Boss's son., He's the boss's retirement project. No one around then can verify this person is that science project. Further, The Spazz Emprah is in the golden toilet because of these science projects.


No way can one realistically seeing the Custodes letting him get within danger range without a lot of fingers on a lot of triggers ready to impale/explode/melt/gauss/eletrocute him unless Da Emprah wished it (now that would be an interesting turn that has not been discussed, maybe the golden corpsicle wanted to speak with him).

A fact we know out of universe, but to every single damn person in the universe of 40k, the Primarchs are the sons of the Emperor and they DO carry his genetic codes. There are lots of ways to verify, and I'm not saying there wasn't a Mexican fifteen-way stand off as Guilliman tried to enter, but obviously the Custodes saw that he was in fact who he says he was (also, let's not forget that Guilliman hasn't aged a day, he's been in time stasis since his mortal wound, so its possible that some of the Custodes recognise him).

He may not have aged a day, but there's no Custodes around from then are there...they'd be kinda of...old.
I still wouldn't see them letting him in there all by himself absent the Emprah ordering it.

And of course, the Emperor could have commanded them to allow him to pass. Who's to say he doesn't have a way to psychically communicate? Or a text to speech device.

I think this 1) explains how he got in there; 2) why it took a day. Their medium of communication may have been through dudes flipping tarot cards.

Who says there's no Custodes from then? Custodes are much more refined that Astartes, who can live for a thousand years or more. I'd wager at least one Custodes would be around from the Heresy considering they never leave the Palace. Also, you could argue the theory that there is a secret password that only the loyalists of Terra knew, and Guilliman knew it. Think Return of the Jedi: "Its an older code sir, but it checks out."


It could also be that he entered under heavy guard and the Emperor can only communicate with those who can see him, and then told the Custodes to leave.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nareik wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Disrespecting a Primarch openly and muttering behind his back are two very different things.

Remember that tosser in school that nobody liked but nobody hated enough to go out of their way to pick a fight with because he'd probably even whup the school bully? No? My School had one.
Guiliman is like that guy, only he has a thousand or more fawning superhuman idiots who have his back.

Oooh, working with that idea, Guiliman is a school yard Queen Bee?

Manipulative, not necessarily well liked, but fawned over and powerful because they are good at maintaining connections. You can't mess with them as they are ruthless enough to get the drop on people who have lost their usefulness or make themselves an enemy?

Its an interesting idea but it sort of goes against the character he's presented as in the Heresy novels. People love to hate Guilliman (ie, players) because of the Spiritual Liege bull gak that came about and how he's the Alpha-Smurf of the Poster Smurfs. Its his popularity that kills him, but turning to Know No Fear, he's presented as a straight up logistician, no funny business, just a master of organisation and planning, and well, likable. He cares for his Astartes, he shows human emotions, he admits his Codex isn't a master guide to the universe and he doesn't present himself as any sort of nefarious being. He's straight-edged.

Yall are forgetting that Guilliman has the BURNING BLADE. Every Custodes is not only going to recognize that sword, but also its psychic resonance from the weapon's spirit. Primarchs also have a recognizable psychic aura that Custodes should also be able to verify from mere exposure.

And? The last primarach that showed up for an unscheduled visit was wearing terminator armor and a really bad topknot.

 Frazzled wrote:
And? The last primarach that showed up for an unscheduled visit was wearing terminator armor and a really bad topknot.

Since when did Abaddon become a Primarch?

 Deadshot wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
And? The last primarach that showed up for an unscheduled visit was wearing terminator armor and a really bad topknot.

Since when did Abaddon become a Primarch?

Horus.

As many primarchs rebelled-aka tried to kill Dad as fought with him. As a custodes, unless explicitly ordered, they would be charged to keep these extreme threats back.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Yall are forgetting that Guilliman has the BURNING BLADE. Every Custodes is not only going to recognize that sword, but also its psychic resonance from the weapon's spirit. Primarchs also have a recognizable psychic aura that Custodes should also be able to verify from mere exposure.

Well, um, he doesn't have the Burning Blade. That is the Space Marine codex relic that is said to be the Emperor's Sword; Guilliman has THE actual blade (which I presume he got from the Throne Room)

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Yall are forgetting that Guilliman has the BURNING BLADE. Every Custodes is not only going to recognize that sword, but also its psychic resonance from the weapon's spirit. Primarchs also have a recognizable psychic aura that Custodes should also be able to verify from mere exposure.

Well, um, he doesn't have the Burning Blade. That is the Space Marine codex relic that is said to be the Emperor's Sword; Guilliman has THE actual blade (which I presume he got from the Throne Room)

No, he had the blade before he got to Terra. Apparently the Ultramarines had it.

Given how they let Guilliman in in 40k, I suspect the Master of Mankind conversation was foreshadowing that also maybe setting up a conflict for later in the HH series rather than a defining trait of the Custodes.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Given how they let Guilliman in in 40k, I suspect the Master of Mankind conversation was foreshadowing that also maybe setting up a conflict for later in the HH series rather than a defining trait of the Custodes.

Can you expand on that?

 Wyzilla wrote:
Yall are forgetting that Guilliman has the BURNING BLADE. Every Custodes is not only going to recognize that sword, but also its psychic resonance from the weapon's spirit. Primarchs also have a recognizable psychic aura that Custodes should also be able to verify from mere exposure.

True thought they have the final word on internal security.
Even the inquisition has to ask... Politely to see emparor. You'd have to be pretty dumb to threaten them in there own palace.

A Primarch may be able to have more sway but they would probably also know the ancient codes or cants that might identity one ad a friendly anyway.

That and Primarchs seem to have a aura of sorts so a fake probably easy to see coming.

 Frazzled wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Given how they let Guilliman in in 40k, I suspect the Master of Mankind conversation was foreshadowing that also maybe setting up a conflict for later in the HH series rather than a defining trait of the Custodes.

Can you expand on that?

I think that it wasn't written to show that the custodes hate the primarchs, rather it was in the book to foreshadow the ensuing problems that the primarchs would cause and maybe in particular setting up some drama between the custodes and one of the primarchs for a later book.

Their disdain makes sense as I've never heard of any Custodes turning traitor, also compared to them, the Primarchs do seem like troublesome children in terms of personality, barring the truly incorruptible ones like Ferrus Manus/Royal Dorn.

If I was created solely to give every second of my life guarding the eternal master of Mankind with all my heart, I'd probably view the traitor ones with a beyond-human disgust and the rest as entitled brats until they actually proved they were worth respecting.