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NOTE: *I'm editing this first post, and copying a post I made later after some reflection...so that new readers get where the spirit of this thread lies.


Honestly, I'm sort of hoping they do integrate 8th Edition rules fully.

For one, I've only been back into this hobby for less than a year...more concentrated on modeling than anything, but I want to be able to play games, whether they're 30K or 40K, seamlessly.

One set of rules is a lot easier to keep track of, and honestly there are balance issues with 40K in general which I think are being addressed here.

What Forgeworld should do is allow people who own old physical copies of the books for buy new updated books at a discount that's fair, and update things, while at least allow owners of the previous books to download updated PDF's for free as E Books so there's no wait until you can afford it.


I really like what I'm looking at as a newer player in terms of basic rules already, I hated the balance issues that 7th Edition presented. While I think some stuff needs to be updated here to reflect changes (IE: Terminators seem to have 2 wounds stock...so I'm guessing upgrading Legion specific termies that had multiple wounds to x03 or x04 wounds each for starters would probably be fair (considering heavy weapons will be dealing multiple wounds and they're generally more expensive than other termies for ).

I think Forgeworld should be inviting players from forums to playtest rules ideas openly too...since consensus and feedback could help speed all of this up dramatically.


As for specific rules I think have a lot of promise:

01. I much prefer things like hull points being eliminated and just giving vehicles toughness values, and wounds. It seems they're trying to make mechs more survivable/worth the points. Suddenly a Dreadnought might be a competitive choice, or your land speeder isn't just a glass cannon. Rhinos are more reliable, and Land Raiders can't be put out of commission without dedicating a lot of resources. All of these things are good signs to me.

02. I do like that all weapons can in theory hurt anything. This means you never have any useless units, and it encourages people to take more chances on the battlefield if the chips are down and they need to at least try something.

03. I am not totally sure about losing templates, but at the same time I think this might be the best call, since this could potentially speed up the game tremendously, while also making template weapons more competitive/consistent. For instance, I think you're more likely to take a Flamer or use a Frag missile from what I'm reading here, and a Vindicator might wind up being a lot more threatening, so building lists around weapons which are typically overshadowed by Grav, Plasma, or the occasional Melta becomes a lot more competitive. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

04. They're toning down/simplifying the psychic phase a bit, while making individual psychics a bit more reliable. I love this. Seriously love this.

05. I love how Terminators in 40K now have 2 wounds, but have a slower movement rate. I think this makes sense thematically, AND it makes them worth the points costs (whatever they get adjusted to). I love terminators, and as with Dreadnoughts and Land Speeders, this makes me excited to use a wider variety of units competitively.

06. Not a rule...but I'm seriously enthused about the idea of games taking about an hour and half generally, so you can get a good game in without spending 4 hours of your life or more including setup and tear down like it's some sort of stage production. I've worked in entertainment my whole life and usually can go without excessive pageantry in my work life to make things simpler...maximizing time management here appeals to me greatly.

07. 30K is inherently better in terms of internal balance than 40K, but the games are larger/longer...as with my previous statements about time management, anything that is going to make the balance of gameplay even better, while cutting down on game length is a win/win.

Well eventually 8th will be integrated into 30k by forgeworld just not right away.

I think it all looks ok so far. Only things that seem a bit strange to me are D6 rolls replacing Blast weapons and And being able to flee from combat.

For me the new template or Blast rules kind of fall apart when you are targeting single models.

Say you have a unit of 10 support squad marines with flamers, they all fire at a single model say a legion centurion. In 7th the support squad could get a max of 10 hits. In 8th the support squad could get anywhere between 10 and 60 hits. That seems a bit strange.

As far as being able to flee combat in your own turn, I'm hoping that it will require some sort of leadership or characteristic test to succeed. Otherwise it's too big a nerf to CC lists (that are already not that great overall).

Other that those issues I'm liking what I have seen so far

Being able to flee combat is as much a buff to melee armies as it is a nerf. Leaving combat at will means that tarpitting will effectively cease to exist as a mechanic. Your expensive melee deathstar will never again be tied up for three turns by a blob of chaff.

How so? The Death Star flees melee tarpit but then it can't move, it can't shoot or charge another target? Unless you have shooting that can kill the tarpit in one turn you will be back to square one your opponent charges the tarpit into your deathstar again. And if you did have shooting that could destroy the tarpit then why the hell didn't you destroy it before your deathstar could get tarpitted in the first place?

agurus1 wrote:
How so? The Death Star flees melee tarpit but then it can't move, it can't shoot or charge another target? Unless you have shooting that can kill the tarpit in one turn you will be back to square one your opponent charges the tarpit into your deathstar again. And if you did have shooting that could destroy the tarpit then why the hell didn't you destroy it before your deathstar could get tarpitted in the first place?

Yeah deathstar that's going to cost easily like 33% of your army will not be sitting duck for entire turn...

Not to mention that deathstars often enough has h&r.

I'll wait until I actually see rules before making a bunch of groundless speculation.

I like the AoS rules, and I'm not a big fan of 7th ed. At this point, any change is welcome. I'd like to see Forge World finish out the Horus Heresy before converting over to 8th ed.

The rules look to be a nice blend of 7th edition and 2nd edition which is no bad thing, it should play faster and still have the same feel of 30/40k. This is something AoS missed, it made WHFB faster but completly lost the feel of the game and pissed many veterans off.

I would like to see 30k get a rule make over as some of the stuff would work better, however after paying £80 for inferno and waiting years for its arrival to then have to buy it AGAIN will really piss me off.

 Tamwulf wrote:
I'll wait until I actually see rules before making a bunch of groundless speculation.

I like the AoS rules, and I'm not a big fan of 7th ed. At this point, any change is welcome. I'd like to see Forge World finish out the Horus Heresy before converting over to 8th ed.

You realize that FW is talking about 15-20 books in the series, right? So 40K will likely be running 14th edition by the time they wrap up the black books.


I could be wrong, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Fires of Cyraxus continues to be delayed, Titanicus won't launch until 2018, and Angelus has no buzz about a 2017 release. FW likely has a lot on their plates right now trying to get their flagship line adapted for what's shaping up to be a fairly different game system.

Most of 8e looks okay. Some bits and peices look dumb.

Here's to hoping FW understands why mortal wounds are silly and chooses to not make any 30k units use them so the game doesn't end up littered with shortcuts to casually RFP Primarchs the way AoS has ended up littered with shortcuts to casually RFP big monsters.

I'm concerned but apathetic.


My irradiation engines just got a bit more savage - the removal of templates is a huge fail in my book.

Of all the things which could be removed, templates did not need to be, and i have fond memories surrounding the classic flamer template from 2nd edition - when will it end? first to go was the thudd gun template, then the sustained fire dice followed quickly by the d4, d8, d10 and d12 - madness! MADNESS!!!

So far I like what I have seen.

Movement: different characteristics for the various units is solid, and you now include your run move in the same phase, making it much easier to keep track of

Shooting: Templates were good but got hard to use en-mass in 7th, blasts were getting stupid though, it took a realistic concept (radius of the explosion) then applied it to a totally abstract concept of the wound pool from the center of the blast. So that's kind of a wash for me

Assault: the flee mechanic seems very tactical, your heavy hitters aren't going to be tarpitted, but likewise a chaff unit can bug out from a fight so that their buddies can blast their opponents. Basically, there is no more "safe" in close combat.

Vehicles: Toughness and Wounds with a damage taken table like AoS seems great, it works really well in that game. Finally, my tanks and dreads wont get one-shotted, or penned into uselessness (we assume, not having seen all the weapon profiles)

Psychic phase also seems decent now, each psycher is responsible for their own powers and Deny rolls are by phsychers with 24"

agurus1 wrote:
Unless you have shooting that can kill the tarpit in one turn

Correct- that's why tarpitting won't be a valid strategy anymore.

I feel like the flee from combat thing made assault armies/units even worse in a game where they are not great.

I am super irked that small arms can kill tanks.

500 Lasgun shots to kill a Land Raider?

How many to kill a dreadnought or Sentinel?

And Bolters are stronger, so only 200 to kill a Land Raider?

I will be very sad the day I watch an Ordinatus Engine or Warlord Titan pulled from the table because it lost its last wound to an Auxilia rifle.

 gorgon wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
I'll wait until I actually see rules before making a bunch of groundless speculation.

I like the AoS rules, and I'm not a big fan of 7th ed. At this point, any change is welcome. I'd like to see Forge World finish out the Horus Heresy before converting over to 8th ed.

You realize that FW is talking about 15-20 books in the series, right? So 40K will likely be running 14th edition by the time they wrap up the black books.


I could be wrong, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Fires of Cyraxus continues to be delayed, Titanicus won't launch until 2018, and Angelus has no buzz about a 2017 release. FW likely has a lot on their plates right now trying to get their flagship line adapted for what's shaping up to be a fairly different game system.

You realize Forge World has announced only two more books to finish out The Horus Heresy before moving on to the Post Heresy, right? That they are going to finish out the remaining three Legions, do Deamons, and the Emperor himself, and then switch over to campaign style books? That would be the perfect time for them to go 8th edition, and is well within the character of GW. "We're gonna write two more books for 7th edition while 8th edition drops, then we're gonna convert everything over to 8th edition so you have to buy everything again!" That would be the Forge World/GW that I know and love.

It makes no sense at all for Forge World to stop progressing the story forward, edit and update the current books, and then release the final three Legions with 8th edition rules. Based on how fast Forge World works, we'd be looking at 2020 before Book VIII comes out. On the other hand, I'm very disappointed in the editing and the obvious lack of play testing for Book VII when it took them well over a year to write the book. If Book VII is any indication of what Forge World has become, then the Golden Days of Glory for Forge World are over.

Where there not rumors saying that HH was going to have its own ruleset made by FW
I hope it doesnt get ported to 8th, they are seperate games.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Where there not rumors saying that HH was going to have its own ruleset made by FW
I hope it doesnt get ported to 8th, they are seperate games.

Honestly, I'm sort of hoping they do integrate 8th Edition rules fully.

For one, I've only been back into this hobby for less than a year...more concentrated on modeling than anything, but I want to be able to play games, whether they're 30K or 40K, seamlessly.

One set of rules is a lot easier to keep track of, and honestly there are balance issues with 40K in general which I think are being addressed here.

What Forgeworld should do is allow people who own old physical copies of the books for buy new updated books at a discount that's fair, and update things, while at least allow owners of the previous books to download updated PDF's for free as E Books so there's no wait until you can afford it.


I really like what I'm looking at as a newer player in terms of basic rules already, I hated the balance issues that 7th Edition presented. While I think some stuff needs to be updated here to reflect changes (IE: Terminators seem to have 2 wounds stock...so I'm guessing upgrading Legion specific termies that had multiple wounds to x03 or x04 wounds each for starters would probably be fair (considering heavy weapons will be dealing multiple wounds and they're generally more expensive than other termies for ).

I think Forgeworld should be inviting players from forums to playtest rules ideas openly too...since consensus and feedback could help speed all of this up dramatically.


As for specific rules I think have a lot of promise:

01. I much prefer things like hull points being eliminated and just giving vehicles toughness values, and wounds. It seems they're trying to make mechs more survivable/worth the points. Suddenly a Dreadnought might be a competitive choice, or your land speeder isn't just a glass cannon. Rhinos are more reliable, and Land Raiders can't be put out of commission without dedicating a lot of resources. All of these things are good signs to me.

02. I do like that all weapons can in theory hurt anything. This means you never have any useless units, and it encourages people to take more chances on the battlefield if the chips are down and they need to at least try something.

03. I am not totally sure about losing templates, but at the same time I think this might be the best call, since this could potentially speed up the game tremendously, while also making template weapons more competitive/consistent. For instance, I think you're more likely to take a Flamer or use a Frag missile from what I'm reading here, and a Vindicator might wind up being a lot more threatening, so building lists around weapons which are typically overshadowed by Grav, Plasma, or the occasional Melta becomes a lot more competitive. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

04. They're toning down/simplifying the psychic phase a bit, while making individual psychics a bit more reliable. I love this. Seriously love this.

05. I love how Terminators in 40K now have 2 wounds, but have a slower movement rate. I think this makes sense thematically, AND it makes them worth the points costs (whatever they get adjusted to). I love terminators, and as with Dreadnoughts and Land Speeders, this makes me excited to use a wider variety of units competitively.

06. Not a rule...but I'm seriously enthused about the idea of games taking about an hour and half generally, so you can get a good game in without spending 4 hours of your life or more including setup and tear down like it's some sort of stage production. I've worked in entertainment my whole life and usually can go without excessive pageantry in my work life to make things simpler...maximizing time management here appeals to me greatly.

07. 30K is inherently better in terms of internal balance than 40K, but the games are larger/longer...as with my previous statements about time management, anything that is going to make the balance of gameplay even better, while cutting down on game length is a win/win.

I really want a conversion guide. Just a PDF

 Tamwulf wrote:
You realize Forge World has announced only two more books to finish out The Horus Heresy before moving on to the Post Heresy, right? That they are going to finish out the remaining three Legions, do Deamons, and the Emperor himself, and then switch over to campaign style books? That would be the perfect time for them to go 8th edition, and is well within the character of GW. "We're gonna write two more books for 7th edition while 8th edition drops, then we're gonna convert everything over to 8th edition so you have to buy everything again!" That would be the Forge World/GW that I know and love.

Um - citation? Everything we have had from the open days and weekenders agrees on the series being 12-20 books. Each book has been a campaign book from book 1!

Remember how book 1 (and maybe 2 - I don't recall exactly) are 6th ed books? See how they have not republished and updated these books abut continued to sell them as is? The army books have alsi had at least 1 reprint with updates. With 40k going digital with hard copies optional I would expect the same from FW. You can buy the hard backs to get campaign stuff, art and so on but if you just want rules - download the free ones.

I am expecting to have less than a year of 7th ed - with the change over happening with book 8 - either later this year at the FW open day OR in feb next year at the HH weekender

 Tamwulf wrote:
It makes no sense at all for Forge World to stop progressing the story forward, edit and update the current books, and then release the final three Legions with 8th edition rules. Based on how fast Forge World works, we'd be looking at 2020 before Book VIII comes out. On the other hand, I'm very disappointed in the editing and the obvious lack of play testing for Book VII when it took them well over a year to write the book. If Book VII is any indication of what Forge World has become, then the Golden Days of Glory for Forge World are over.

The books have always been edited in a haphazard fashion - again, see the first books in the series. I do agree that book 7 is WAY of base in terms of balance though. I will point you again to the above - the first book or 2 they STILL SELL are 6th edition books. They don't go back and edit, update and republish books.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Most of 8e looks okay. Some bits and peices look dumb.

Here's to hoping FW understands why mortal wounds are silly and chooses to not make any 30k units use them so the game doesn't end up littered with shortcuts to casually RFP Primarchs the way AoS has ended up littered with shortcuts to casually RFP big monsters.

But these are the same people who made Magnus 'casually throwing 2d6 D hits at everything within 2 feet' the Red and Quad 'everything killer" Mortars.

 Massaen wrote:
Um - citation? Everything we have had from the open days and weekenders agrees on the series being 12-20 books. Each book has been a campaign book from book 1!

I was puzzled by his remark also...all I could figure was that he was referencing when the Legion army lists will be completed and things got a little garbled. But that will only be true until the next book, because we know the Legions and other armies will continue to evolve as the story evolves.

There will also be brand new armies like Daemons and Dark Mechanicum. Yes, they'll see their first appearance in Angelus, but we don't know that those will be one-and-done comprehensive lists. Witness how Mechanicum were rolled out over time and multiple black books. FW's 30K has always been an evolving thing that will involve some rules evolution and obsolescence. It won't be 'set' or 'done' until they complete the series...sometime many years from now.

Regarding book 7, I think it's at least *possible* they were developing it in parallel for 7th and 8th, ran out of time, and released it in an unfinished state for 7th edition. I keep saying it here and there, but it's interesting how Russ's armor potentially goes from completely bonkers good in 7th to something a lot more reasonable in 8th with fixed 3+ to hit rolls for Legions and 2+ for primarchs. Magnus also comes with a to-hit modifier, as do Praesidium Shields for Custodes. It's a little bit interesting that we see multiple examples of this mechanic in Inferno, when we haven't seen much of it elsewhere in 30K or 40K. But who knows?

I personally wouldn't like to see 30k games go down the route of short and quick, 30 min games. It ruins the effect of 30k. Why am I playing this massive 2500+ point game when the set up and pack up time is longer than the actual game? It would be like playing a 30 minute session of GURPS.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I personally wouldn't like to see 30k games go down the route of short and quick, 30 min games. It ruins the effect of 30k. Why am I playing this massive 2500+ point game when the set up and pack up time is longer than the actual game? It would be like playing a 30 minute session of GURPS.

No one is suggesting it be 30 minutes and so short that it ends before it gets interesting.

GW has said the new rules aim for 1500 point 40K games to take about 90 minutes. I think a 2500 point game would take a bit longer, but I've seen some games drag on and on in a way where it's hard for many players to keep focus.

Herecomesyourman wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I personally wouldn't like to see 30k games go down the route of short and quick, 30 min games. It ruins the effect of 30k. Why am I playing this massive 2500+ point game when the set up and pack up time is longer than the actual game? It would be like playing a 30 minute session of GURPS.

No one is suggesting it be 30 minutes and so short that it ends before it gets interesting.

GW has said the new rules aim for 1500 point 40K games to take about 90 minutes. I think a 2500 point game would take a bit longer, but I've seen some games drag on and on in a way where it's hard for many players to keep focus.

I misread "an hour and a half" as "half an hour." Sorry about that.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Herecomesyourman wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I personally wouldn't like to see 30k games go down the route of short and quick, 30 min games. It ruins the effect of 30k. Why am I playing this massive 2500+ point game when the set up and pack up time is longer than the actual game? It would be like playing a 30 minute session of GURPS.

No one is suggesting it be 30 minutes and so short that it ends before it gets interesting.

GW has said the new rules aim for 1500 point 40K games to take about 90 minutes. I think a 2500 point game would take a bit longer, but I've seen some games drag on and on in a way where it's hard for many players to keep focus.

I misread "an hour and a half" as "half an hour." Sorry about that.

No worries!!! =D

I think the whole thing look much, much better than the ponderous game we're currently playing.

I look forward to FW doing a complete switchover to the new system as soon as they have time to get it tested.

I can't see any point in 'finishing' all the units for 7ed first - when they started the HH series we were in 6ed, changing editions is relatively normal in war-games and rarely does anyone support the old edition. I'm amused by all the people who are in any way surprised that their books are being made redundant - this has been a normal thing for GW to do for 30 years!!