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It seems that the new-hammer fluff is strongly laying the foundation for the return of Ferrus Manus as the next loyalist primarch. This comes in either of two flavors:

1. Fulgrim is still trying to clone Ferrus. Fulgrim returns, Guilliman gets ahold of a Ferrus clone, emperor puts soul into ferrus clone's body. Enter Ferrus Manus.

2. The legion of the damned show up again, this time accompanied by a big, headless, flaming dude with silver hands. Or maybe a silver skull. It will be ambiguous if this is truly ferrus manus.


Personally, I think Ferrus is coming back with a rebooted legion of the damned.

Colour me jaded but this isn't going to happen.

Fulgrim is well and firmly entrentched in the great game between the Dark Gods, just like the other daemon primarchs. Does he really have that much of a thing for his old bezzie?

As much as I like Ferrus Magnus, I'm afraid he's one of the three Primarchs that has no chance of coming back (the other being Sanguinus and Horus) and we can all "thank" that pretty boy Fulgrim for that

Umm he dead... Very dead.

All the deamon Primarchs have for most part never left EOT more than a handful of times. Thr fact them getting off there damn thrones is notable, yet alone going to build a clone and drag it with him across the galaxy.

His return is ... Unlikely in the extreme.

As the OP knows, Ferrus Has been resurrected before.. but i would say it's verrrryyy unlikely he'll come back again.

Especially as there are a lot of missing Primarchs which are easy to bring back.

It's even less likely than my homebrew theory of bringing back a loyalist Magnus. ..

the42up wrote:
It seems that the new-hammer fluff is strongly laying the foundation for the return of Ferrus Manus as the next loyalist primarch. This comes in either of two flavors:

1. Fulgrim is still trying to clone Ferrus. Fulgrim returns, Guilliman gets ahold of a Ferrus clone, emperor puts soul into ferrus clone's body. Enter Ferrus Manus.

2. The legion of the damned show up again, this time accompanied by a big, headless, flaming dude with silver hands. Or maybe a silver skull. It will be ambiguous if this is truly ferrus manus.


Personally, I think Ferrus is coming back with a rebooted legion of the damned.

Both are unlikely though the second option could work better and the idea of Ferrus returning as a flaming, skull headed daemon primarch of the Emperor is one of the most awesome things ever.

In the infamous words of Vulkan,

the42up wrote:
It seems that the new-hammer fluff is strongly laying the foundation for the return of Ferrus Manus as the next loyalist primarch. This comes in either of two flavors:

1. Fulgrim is still trying to clone Ferrus. Fulgrim returns, Guilliman gets ahold of a Ferrus clone, emperor puts soul into ferrus clone's body. Enter Ferrus Manus.

2. The legion of the damned show up again, this time accompanied by a big, headless, flaming dude with silver hands. Or maybe a silver skull. It will be ambiguous if this is truly ferrus manus.


Personally, I think Ferrus is coming back with a rebooted legion of the damned.

When the hell did #2 happen?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

the42up wrote:
It seems that the new-hammer fluff is strongly laying the foundation for the return of Ferrus Manus as the next loyalist primarch. This comes in either of two flavors:

1. Fulgrim is still trying to clone Ferrus. Fulgrim returns, Guilliman gets ahold of a Ferrus clone, emperor puts soul into ferrus clone's body. Enter Ferrus Manus.

2. The legion of the damned show up again, this time accompanied by a big, headless, flaming dude with silver hands. Or maybe a silver skull. It will be ambiguous if this is truly ferrus manus.


Personally, I think Ferrus is coming back with a rebooted legion of the damned.

When the hell did #2 happen?

Well he wasnt headless, but Emperor-Daemon Ferrus Manus showed up leading a "Legion of the Damned" force in The Master of Mankind.

I could see Ferrus coming back if he was a partiuclarly popular Primarch, but he's not, christ even in the Horus Heresy books he mostly exists as a dead man.

As much as some players might like some of the dead Primarchs, I would prefer they stay dead. There is a huge loss of drama when authors start bringing back the dead. It ranks right up there with, "It was all just a dream/nightmare."

Honestly, I would have preferred all the Primarchs to stay out of the setting for the simple reason that the players of chapters/legions that have a dead one might feel left out. I am okay with the Black Legion never having a true Primarch. Abbadon is enough, but some players might not see it that way and feel left out.

 Yougottapaythetrolltoll wrote:
As much as I like Ferrus Magnus, I'm afraid he's one of the three Primarchs that has no chance of coming back (the other being Sanguinus and Horus) and we can all "thank" that pretty boy Fulgrim for that

Don't forget Curze. The whole 'we never saw the deathblow' thing is as bad as 'It was all a dream' imo. Especially since 1.) The assassin escaped, which she wouldn't have done with the job unfinished. 2.) Curze was proving a point by allowing the assassin to kill him which would have been invalidated if he didn't. 3.) He hasn't been seen at all for 10,000 years.
If any of those 4 (Horus especially) were brought back it would massively cheapen the setting.

Poly Ranger wrote:

 Yougottapaythetrolltoll wrote:
As much as I like Ferrus Magnus, I'm afraid he's one of the three Primarchs that has no chance of coming back (the other being Sanguinus and Horus) and we can all "thank" that pretty boy Fulgrim for that

Don't forget Curze. The whole 'we never saw the deathblow' thing is as bad as 'It was all a dream' imo. Especially since 1.) The assassin escaped, which she wouldn't have done with the job unfinished. 2.) Curze was proving a point by allowing the assassin to kill him which would have been invalidated if he didn't. 3.) He hasn't been seen at all for 10,000 years.
If any of those 4 (Horus especially) were brought back it would massively cheapen the setting.

Curze is definitely dead but in that dead folks can come back he could return(his soul wasnt obliterated) and the forces of chaos wouldnt nessisarily be opposed to having him run around again.

Headless Horseman Ferrus on a Bike!!!!
He won't be next Primarch though IMO.

 Exergy wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:

 Yougottapaythetrolltoll wrote:
As much as I like Ferrus Magnus, I'm afraid he's one of the three Primarchs that has no chance of coming back (the other being Sanguinus and Horus) and we can all "thank" that pretty boy Fulgrim for that

Don't forget Curze. The whole 'we never saw the deathblow' thing is as bad as 'It was all a dream' imo. Especially since 1.) The assassin escaped, which she wouldn't have done with the job unfinished. 2.) Curze was proving a point by allowing the assassin to kill him which would have been invalidated if he didn't. 3.) He hasn't been seen at all for 10,000 years.
If any of those 4 (Horus especially) were brought back it would massively cheapen the setting.

Curze is definitely dead but in that dead folks can come back he could return(his soul wasnt obliterated) and the forces of chaos wouldnt nessisarily be opposed to having him run around again.

That vastly cheapens the whole thing about him.
He let himself die, he knew he was monster, had terrible visions and such.

He died to prove a point. (and balance the 8 vs 7 chaos , imperial primarch tally...)

It'd be the Lion if anyone. Least fluff breaking option.

Well Horus soul /was / obliterated and he still managed to come back once. Sigh.

But yeah, there are .. 6? Daemon primarchs. Plenty of material without resorting to crazy resurrections.
The Lion, Russ , Corax and Khan are easy to bring back, as is one handed Dorn.
And Vulkan arguably never left, he's just been busy doing something else.

horus was cloned, doesn't mean it really was Horus, he may have looked like Horus, THOUGHT he was Horus, but he proably wasn't actually Horus

BrianDavion wrote:
horus was cloned, doesn't mean it really was Horus, he may have looked like Horus, THOUGHT he was Horus, but he proably wasn't actually Horus

He also had the memories of Horus. Maybe he was just a pea primarch though.

Regardless, he shouldn't have come back and had his 'chance to come back' and blew it.

I think it would actually be a disservice to Horus, Abaddon, Fabius Bile, The Sons of Horus, The Black Legion, Sanguinius, The Emperor and The Chaos Gods (plus the fans) to bring Horus back (again(?)).

nareik wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
horus was cloned, doesn't mean it really was Horus, he may have looked like Horus, THOUGHT he was Horus, but he proably wasn't actually Horus

He also had the memories of Horus. Maybe he was just a pea primarch though.

Regardless, he shouldn't have come back and had his 'chance to come back' and blew it.

I think it would actually be a disservice to Horus, Abaddon, Fabius Bile, The Sons of Horus, The Black Legion, Sanguinius, The Emperor and The Chaos Gods (plus the fans) to bring Horus back (again(?)).

except DID he have the memories of Horus? we're thinking about the bit from Talon of Horus yeah? yes Horus identified the talon of Horus, yes he identified Abbaddon as being Abbaddon, but these aren't exactly rare and exclusive knowledge, it's the type of knowlegde Fabius Bile would have had, and likely would have programmed into a clone (perhaps via the same Psycho Indoctrination the Legions used for Astartes training) there was no evidance thatthis was Horus, just a copy programmed with knowledge that would make him belive he was Horus.

I think Cruze would rather be right than alive, so he's going to stay dead.


The Space Wolves player in me would love to see Russ come back for another round with Magnus.

The grimdark part of me wants him to come back as a Wulfen Primarch.

Jefffar wrote:
I think Cruze would rather be right than alive, so he's going to stay dead.

It's really not about what he wants at this point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jefffar wrote:
The Space Wolves player in me would love to see Russ come back for another round with Magnus.

The grimdark part of me wants him to come back as a Wulfen Primarch.

As much I don't like the Wulfen models, I would love a wulfen Russ to rock on back to the Imperium.

Went away and thought and something occured to me...

Now if it is correct that one traitor will return to the fold and one loyalist will fall, I started thinking who the traitor could be. (If this is not the case - ignore this entire post.)

Now a Daemon Prince Primarch can't come back from that so that wipes out Lorgar, Magnus, Angron, Mortarion and Fulgrim from the equation. Horus is dead and is never going to turn loyalist again even if he came back. That leaves Pertuarbo, Alpharius/Omegon and Curze left.
I highly doubt Perty will turn as his legion is so bitter now and such an obvious counterside to both Imperial Fists and Iron Hands.
There is the very well made argument for The Alpha Legion (at least half) coming back to the fold under Omegon. But this has been discussed already so I will leave that for now.

But let's think about Curze (I know I just said it would ruin the setting for him to come back but bear with me a minute) Curze realised he would become a monster and so allowed himself to be assassinated. He became disgusted at his own legion when he realised the more recent recruits were mostly criminal scum who were commiting attrocities. He allowed the assassin in to show the Emperor's hypocrisy in fighting a dirty war. Do any of these things sound like the type of way an evil or dishonorable person would act?
He had visions of what the future would become and was horrified by it to such an extent that it drove him mad. These visions of course came true, visions that he was obviously against happening.
Now what happens if Curze did in fact survive and had overcome the madness of his visions? What happens if he had isolated himself from the horror that was happening (aka Luke Skywalker standing on a rock staring into the ocean for 10,000/50 years) and realised that he was wrong to side with Horus? Not that he forgives his father but instead realises that humanity needs protecting against Chaos. He's been avoiding getting involved for 10,000 years, but with warp rifts splitting Humanity in two, he can no longer sit on the sidelines?
Let's face it - if part of The Alpha Legion came back to the fold, nobody in the Imperium would accept them anyway. Same with Curze. But if Curze is alive, he has split himself off from his corrupted legion, only he would be coming back. The Imperium wouldn't accept him, but he might do the whole 'batman' thing and work alone despite the 'authorities' and the villains hunting him.
I know it's a long shot, but it would retrospectively give a whole new meaning to the fights he had with his brother Primarchs. Realising he was spared from death by them and regretting how things happened in the end.
This would be the only way I could accept Curze being alive. It is a whole 180 and totally different from the 'look he survived - another evil psycho Demi God is here to lead the forces of Chaos' whoop de fething do :-|...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It would also lead for some great fluff. Helping out his brother primarchs despite the animosity between them, after him having been a traitor - think the Walking Dead and Merle, for one of many examples of how this has worked well in grimdark fiction before.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Went away and thought and something occured to me...

Now if it is correct that one traitor will return to the fold and one loyalist will fall, I started thinking who the traitor could be. (If this is not the case - ignore this entire post.)

Now a Daemon Prince Primarch can't come back from that so that wipes out Lorgar, Magnus, Angron, Mortarion and Fulgrim from the equation. Horus is dead and is never going to turn loyalist again even if he came back. That leaves Pertuarbo, Alpharius/Omegon and Curze left.
I highly doubt Perty will turn as his legion is so bitter now and such an obvious counterside to both Imperial Fists and Iron Hands.
There is the very well made argument for The Alpha Legion (at least half) coming back to the fold under Omegon. But this has been discussed already so I will leave that for now.

But let's think about Curze (I know I just said it would ruin the setting for him to come back but bear with me a minute) Curze realised he would become a monster and so allowed himself to be assassinated. He became disgusted at his own legion when he realised the more recent recruits were mostly criminal scum who were commiting attrocities. He allowed the assassin in to show the Emperor's hypocrisy in fighting a dirty war. Do any of these things sound like the type of way an evil or dishonorable person would act?
He had visions of what the future would become and was horrified by it to such an extent that it drove him mad. These visions of course came true, visions that he was obviously against happening.
Now what happens if Curze did in fact survive and had overcome the madness of his visions? What happens if he had isolated himself from the horror that was happening (aka Luke Skywalker standing on a rock staring into the ocean for 10,000/50 years) and realised that he was wrong to side with Horus? Not that he forgives his father but instead realises that humanity needs protecting against Chaos. He's been avoiding getting involved for 10,000 years, but with warp rifts splitting Humanity in two, he can no longer sit on the sidelines?
Let's face it - if part of The Alpha Legion came back to the fold, nobody in the Imperium would accept them anyway. Same with Curze. But if Curze is alive, he has split himself off from his corrupted legion, only he would be coming back. The Imperium wouldn't accept him, but he might do the whole 'batman' thing and work alone despite the 'authorities' and the villains hunting him.
I know it's a long shot, but it would retrospectively give a whole new meaning to the fights he had with his brother Primarchs. Realising he was spared from death by them and regretting how things happened in the end.
This would be the only way I could accept Curze being alive. It is a whole 180 and totally different from the 'look he survived - another evil psycho Demi God is here to lead the forces of Chaos' whoop de fething do :-|...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It would also lead for some great fluff. Helping out his brother primarchs despite the animosity between them, after him having been a traitor - think the Walking Dead and Merle, for one of many examples of how this has worked well in grimdark fiction before.

True. As a kinda giant in black armour who seems to apeer and vanish at will. No heraldry, no banners or honours.
A unknown warrior seeking not forgiveness but just fighting for a cause, not caring about life or death and seeing whenever his end fate decides.
Kind of the dark nameless champion.

There is nothing suggestion that he is coming back, dude lost his head.

IMO the order of primarchs to return will be as follows

Mortarian (Duh)
Lion
Fulgrim
Toss up of (russ, Khan, dorn)
Angron
(Toss up between the other 2 not picked from the above.)

I would bet good money you are going to see fulgrim and angron before any other of the demon primarchs because they each represent the chaos gods which GW seems to be on a thing about having a big baddy for each chaos god. As for loyalist, the primarch with the least about of a road block is the lion, because literally someone just need to check the broom closet to realize he is asleep in there. After him, i think Russ is the next best options considering the lion and the wolf have so much lore together.

 jhe90 wrote:




That vastly cheapens the whole thing about him.
He let himself die, he knew he was monster, had terrible visions and such.

He died to prove a point. (and balance the 8 vs 7 chaos , imperial primarch tally...)

He wouldnt have brought himself back. He would still have made the ultimate sacrifice to prove a point, a point that he would still consider made and right. But if someone else brings him back, what is he going to do.

Curze was perhaps sucicidal, but I do not think impulsive. Being Curze he would start having visions, and the visions he has in 40k might be very very different from the visions he had in 30k. They might lead him to a very different action.
And who brings him back. My guess would be Fabulous Bill, but again Fabulous Bill who has 10,000 years of additional knowledge and experience and connections to the Eldar.

I dont think they will bring Curze back from the dead. I dont think they are going to bring A+O back either. I doubt they are going to have any of the undivided daemon primarchs start doing anything(lorgar?) But if they did, I think Curze coming back could be the most interesting.

All the other chaos primarchs have been either ignoring the galaxy or proving ineffective. Something has to change that makes them interested or more effective before they can start making any stories. Curze was detached as well, but he was doing so to make a point, a point he thought he would never come back from. If he wound up alive, I think we would go in a different path.

 Exergy wrote:

Curze is definitely dead but in that dead folks can come back he could return(his soul wasnt obliterated) and the forces of chaos wouldnt nessisarily be opposed to having him run around again.

I don't see Curze wanting to play puppet to the powers of Chaos. In a way, we get to see how Curze would likely behave through Talos of the Night Lords in Soul Hunter. He has the same visions his dad had, which function in a separate way to those premonitions/powers granted by Chaos, and looks down on those who throw themselves away to work for the Dark Gods.

I don't know what Curze would do, but that's his point, he's the wildcard Primarch. He cares not for Imperium, Legion, or family. He abandons all in turn. All that ever mattered to him was reconciling the absurdities of his existence, and it drove him insane in the trying.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
There is nothing suggestion that he is coming back, dude lost his head.

IMO the order of primarchs to return will be as follows

Mortarian (Duh)
Lion
Fulgrim
Toss up of (russ, Khan, dorn)
Angron
(Toss up between the other 2 not picked from the above.)

I would bet good money you are going to see fulgrim and angron before any other of the demon primarchs because they each represent the chaos gods which GW seems to be on a thing about having a big baddy for each chaos god. As for loyalist, the primarch with the least about of a road block is the lion, because literally someone just need to check the broom closet to realize he is asleep in there. After him, i think Russ is the next best options considering the lion and the wolf have so much lore together.

except the rumors have Russ returning and no mention so far of the Lion

 Ketara wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Curze is definitely dead but in that dead folks can come back he could return(his soul wasnt obliterated) and the forces of chaos wouldnt nessisarily be opposed to having him run around again.

I don't see Curze wanting to play puppet to the powers of Chaos. In a way, we get to see how Curze would likely behave through Talos of the Night Lords in Soul Hunter. He has the same visions his dad had, which function in a separate way to those premonitions/powers granted by Chaos, and looks down on those who throw themselves away to work for the Dark Gods.

I don't know what Curze would do, but that's his point, he's the wildcard Primarch. He cares not for Imperium, Legion, or family. He abandons all in turn. All that ever mattered to him was reconciling the absurdities of his existence, and it drove him insane in the trying.

I don't see him wanting to be a puppet of the Chaos powers either, which is why he, along with A+O are the most interesting of the traitor primarchs. For A+O the whole point is we will never know their true motivations, so while interesting you cant really write anything seriously about it without it being 90% chance of just being another ruse.

Curze could do anything, but probably not what anyone else wants exactly. He might create another gotham planet with no crime. He might carve out a little empire for himself. He might escape into the night only to return bent on assassinating those who wronged him in the past.

WWCD(What Would Curze Do) would be fascinating.

Isnt the Legion of the Dammed leader headless...

So he is actually a Undead Cruze with his ghost marines fighting the good fight