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I left 40k 3 years ago and a ton of people at the club wants to run a campaign. Ive always loved the models of 40k more tha FB/AoS so this has definitely gotten me back in. I don't have any experience in this small scale + build your exp/armory kind of game.

1. Have read some forces are strong up front or strong late campaign type of description. What makes a faction strong early on but not late? What makes something strong late but not early on?

2. Spending Prometheum. When the goal of the game is to bank this stuff, is it even a decision to spend them on upgrades or specialists? Early on before the power spikes have hit for certain forces, I can understand other factions wanting to tech up on upgrades sooner to hit their power spikes so adding a special weapon can really swing a game. After the initial tech is it even worth it?

3. Specialist inbalance. I don't know if this is a big issue since I have such little experience in the game, but some specials are disgustingly strong while others seem very underwhelming. The counter argument lots have said is "well option x gives the opponent caches" but this isnt always true. Compare a specialist pick like a DE Succubus vs GSC acolyte. Neither give a PC when taken out while one is literally a HQ 1 man multiwound monster while the other can barely take on an unarmed marine.

Worse yet, compare a Purestrain Genestealer vs the Succubus. Purestrain forfeits a PC while Succubus doesnt, and the Succubus brings more of everything to the table
It's like they just took some random infantry models from 40k with total disregard to statline and gave them all an equal cost. Why wouldn't a succubus be toned down? Why wouldn't a Genestealer be ramped up?

4. Faction picks. I have a GSC ready, but also considering DE or Eldar for their models.
-Concerns for GSC is the super weak specialist picks (if I'll even use them) which leaves not much variety in the force with guardsman stats and small basic weapons. Not sure if a bunch of light arms plus mediocre melee can stand up to the more elite factions.
-Love Eldar and the variety of models they can bring, but pretty expensive $$ wise to get guardians, autarch, dire avengers and a wraithguard box just for this campaign
-DE seem it could get one dimensional, get in close to pistol & melee with basically the same unit type (wyches) with minor statline changes from each different entry
Anyone have experience w these, and thoughts?

Spending promethium is usefull early on to expand upgrade your team. Yes you lose out on banking the stuff, but for some factions its the only way to expand the kill team as their unit cost is so high (Ex. nids, CSM troopers, GK)

In the games weve played the specialists dont make an appearance that much, spending the promethium up front makes everyone nervous.

Archonite wrote:
I left 40k 3 years ago and a ton of people at the club wants to run a campaign. Ive always loved the models of 40k more tha FB/AoS so this has definitely gotten me back in. I don't have any experience in this small scale + build your exp/armory kind of game.

1. Have read some forces are strong up front or strong late campaign type of description. What makes a faction strong early on but not late? What makes something strong late but not early on?

2. Spending Prometheum. When the goal of the game is to bank this stuff, is it even a decision to spend them on upgrades or specialists? Early on before the power spikes have hit for certain forces, I can understand other factions wanting to tech up on upgrades sooner to hit their power spikes so adding a special weapon can really swing a game. After the initial tech is it even worth it?

3. Specialist inbalance. I don't know if this is a big issue since I have such little experience in the game, but some specials are disgustingly strong while others seem very underwhelming. The counter argument lots have said is "well option x gives the opponent caches" but this isnt always true. Compare a specialist pick like a DE Succubus vs GSC acolyte. Neither give a PC when taken out while one is literally a HQ 1 man multiwound monster while the other can barely take on an unarmed marine.

Worse yet, compare a Purestrain Genestealer vs the Succubus. Purestrain forfeits a PC while Succubus doesnt, and the Succubus brings more of everything to the table
It's like they just took some random infantry models from 40k with total disregard to statline and gave them all an equal cost. Why wouldn't a succubus be toned down? Why wouldn't a Genestealer be ramped up?

4. Faction picks. I have a GSC ready, but also considering DE or Eldar for their models.
-Concerns for GSC is the super weak specialist picks (if I'll even use them) which leaves not much variety in the force with guardsman stats and small basic weapons. Not sure if a bunch of light arms plus mediocre melee can stand up to the more elite factions.
-Love Eldar and the variety of models they can bring, but pretty expensive $$ wise to get guardians, autarch, dire avengers and a wraithguard box just for this campaign
-DE seem it could get one dimensional, get in close to pistol & melee with basically the same unit type (wyches) with minor statline changes from each different entry
Anyone have experience w these, and thoughts?

1. Having played a good few games a couple of SWA campaigns now, I think it entirely depends on what kill team you pick, however there are a couple of considerations. Firstly, the model count in the early game is important to avoid bottling early; think about how many models you'll need to avoid this and go for higher uneven numbers if possible i.e. 5, 7, 9. This means you can lose a couple of models before having to start bottle tests. Secondly, I'd suggest planning out your fully kitted out list with max models then working backwards. This'll help you plan out your recruits/rearms and think about what skills you want to get in what priority. Lastly, I like to go for a kill team with a smooth curve in terms of upgrades and recruits, for instance, Necrons have a fairly strong "shooty" starting team (you will get wrecked in melee) and have a decent curve as you progress through a campaign.

2. Entirely depends on who you're up against. I call in a specialist in certain instances: if I've had fighters taken out due to injuries, if I'm up against a known-tough list and want to make it a little easier, or if I'm fairly sure that swinging it my way with a specialist will net me more Promethean i.e. spend one, but can get 3-6 from a Scavenger game.

3. This is just how it goes - we have to deal with it - but you're not wrong. Compare a 1 wound Lychguard, who's only special ability is a 3+ invulnerable, with a Terminator that has 3+ 2D6 save, 5+ invulnerable and cannot be pinned (if the shot isn't high impact).

4. Don't underestimate weight of fire and getting a few lucky rolls in with the occassional "6" injury roll - it will happen! Haven't played or played against Eldar, but weapon platforms and battle focus could be very strong. you should be able to pick a few Guardians/Dire Avengers up off eBay for very cheap and just convert up an Autarch. I've personally got a DE list and have a few games under my belt. If you get into combat it can be fun and neat, but the game is just too shooting-centric and you will die getting there unless you're playing on VERY dense terrain or have Harlequin shenanigans on your side.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for the great answers. Have convinced me to stick with GSC and I think i'll just stick with non operatives even if I have a tough match coming up. I'll just plan for them accordingly topping up on upgrades and recruits consistently rather than using the awful ops.

Archonite wrote:
Thanks for the great answers. Have convinced me to stick with GSC and I think i'll just stick with non operatives even if I have a tough match coming up. I'll just plan for them accordingly topping up on upgrades and recruits consistently rather than using the awful ops.

Cant recommend enough Grenade lauchers for your heavies.. forget the actual heavy weapons..

28" range, move and shoot with an option for popping high armour duders and large blast for larger mobs.. honestly the best option in the list

Why do all spec ops have the same price considering there is so much variation in strength? Bluntly, spec ops are ancillary. Considering (a) how short most SWA games are, (b) how inconsequential most SWA games are, taken individually, to overall campaign victory, and (c) that spec ops are one-use only options paid for in the currency of campaign victory, it's pretty clear that the true purpose of spec ops is to add some potential flavor to the campaign.

 Manchu wrote:
Why do all spec ops have the same price considering there is so much variation in strength? Bluntly, spec ops are ancillary. Considering (a) how short most SWA games are, (b) how inconsequential most SWA games are, taken individually, to overall campaign victory, and (c) that spec ops are one-use only options paid for in the currency of campaign victory, it's pretty clear that the true purpose of spec ops is to add some potential flavor to the campaign.

Well in same cases it depends on what you are fighting against..

But generally there is 1 that is better than the other options..

The only times I would consider using one myself, is if I took some heavy losses and needed to do a rescue mission or such

Or if I pulled just over 15 prom so it isn't wasted (as you cant carry over more then 15)

Hoping I can toss a question in here as well.

How do armour saves work against weapons that modify them to non-achievable levels?

I can't find a section in the rules that says weapons with a high enough armor modifier cancel saving throws, but I also can't find a section that says something like, "a 6 on the die roll will always save."

 infinite_array wrote:
Hoping I can toss a question in here as well.

How do armour saves work against weapons that modify them to non-achievable levels?

I can't find a section in the rules that says weapons with a high enough armor modifier cancel saving throws, but I also can't find a section that says something like, "a 6 on the die roll will always save."

They don't. No 'critical success! your T-shirt has stopped the lascannon blast!' here. If you get shot with something that negates your armour outright you are SOL.

(My SWA-style project (drawing more on Mordheim than Necromunda) ended up finding that most saves needed to be pumped half a point to a point from what they are in 40k (5+ saves for Cultists/Boyz/Kroot/whatnot, upgraded fancy armour that gives Eldar/Tau/Orks access to 3+ armour infantry, that sort of thing) to compensate for save mods, but it also has Mordheim range mods to shooting (simple -1 outside half range) and is much closer to 40k in terms of fire rate (small arms firing two shots at close range are relatively commonplace), so that information may not prove that helpful.)

Cool. Thought that was the case.

Mordheim had awful armor rules. It was really expensive and often simply ignored. So, armor was the thing that you buy when you have nothing else to buy.

SWA - not so much. It's ok as it costs reasonably and there's no crit mechanics. So, only rends lower armor and often don't straight up ignore it.

 koooaei wrote:
Mordheim had awful armor rules. It was really expensive and often simply ignored. So, armor was the thing that you buy when you have nothing else to buy.

SWA - not so much. It's ok as it costs reasonably and there's no crit mechanics. So, only rends lower armor and often don't straight up ignore it.

The other thing to pay attention to is that it's free/really cheap in SWA. In Mordheim a 30gc warrior had to dump 60gc on getting to a 4+ armour save (heavy armour+shield), in Necromunda proper you just couldn't get any armour starting out (you'd need a 1/72 shot on the rare trading chart and then 80 money to spare to come up with a suit of carapace), so by comparison these 90pt Sisters in free power armour are just silly.

More campaign questions before I get into one

With everyone getting rearm/recruit at the end of each game, how imbalanced have you found it to get if people played a different amount of games?

1. If someone only plays the campaign once a month vs someone who does it twice a month, they can get in 3-4 games more so in the end you could be facing 1700 pts vs 1300 pts right?

2. If one group plays faster and can get in 5 games a session vs someone who plays super slow to get in 3 games a session, having a slow opponent actually holds you back?

3. If it's a regular meet and you miss one session, you'd be significantly behind with no catchup mechanics right?

4. How do you keep track of everyone's force and upgrades? In the end it's really up to their honestly to say I've played x number of games and therefore I have x number of points, skills, upgrades and caches, but if you're going in to face someone new for the first time there isnt really anything stopping them from saying I won this many games so far and have these bonuses

Can hedge #1 and #2 by saying everyone just play 4 games each session, but that doesnt apply as well when you miss an entire meetup. We did a 40k campaign awhile ago and not everyone would be able to show up every single time. We had one guy who was in charge of keeping track of the territories held in the campaign, but thats a lot easier than trying to ensure every weapon is paid for and every upgrade is legit

I've played other campaign-based games (Blood Bowl, Frostgrave, Empire of the Dead), so in regards to campaign questions:

1. Yep
2. Perhaps.
3. Potentially, unless your group wants to implement some kind of catch-up mechanic.
4. If you want, your group can use a shared Google Sheets doc to keep track of their warbands. You can also make it required that advancement rolls have to be made in front of an opponent after a game.

Hey Archonite.

The way we play it locally is 1 campaign game per week.
You can play as many as you want. But your first is the only one that counts.

We hand our sheets to our group lead who puts them on a spreadsheet that auto calcs points etc. If we have the Scavenger skill, Promethium sprawl that gives additional points. We note it on the back of the sheet and its signed by your opponent. So this covers any issues mostly.

As for catchup. If I were to miss a week I would be 1 game behind. They would allow me to play 2 campaign games that week against opponents I hadn't played.

If the opponent already has his campaign game that week. He will still play me but will not win anything/lose anything.

C

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Mordheim had awful armor rules. It was really expensive and often simply ignored. So, armor was the thing that you buy when you have nothing else to buy.

SWA - not so much. It's ok as it costs reasonably and there's no crit mechanics. So, only rends lower armor and often don't straight up ignore it.

The other thing to pay attention to is that it's free/really cheap in SWA. In Mordheim a 30gc warrior had to dump 60gc on getting to a 4+ armour save (heavy armour+shield), in Necromunda proper you just couldn't get any armour starting out (you'd need a 1/72 shot on the rare trading chart and then 80 money to spare to come up with a suit of carapace), so by comparison these 90pt Sisters in free power armour are just silly.

So, what's wrong with it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Archonite wrote:
More campaign questions before I get into one

With everyone getting rearm/recruit at the end of each game, how imbalanced have you found it to get if people played a different amount of games?

Not necesserily. You can not only gain but also loose fighters. And if you loose your leader, unless it's an astra militarum or necron leader, it's a huge blow.