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Hey guys,

So I'm in the middle of writing yet another Chapter and I've come across a slight problem with regards to the Chapter's Fleet. When it comes to Battle Barges, how likely are they to last millennia at a time? For example, we can expect the Battle Barges of the 'Original Nine' Chapters (Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, Salamanders, etc etc etc) to stand the test of time because - if for no other reason - they're a fleet element of one of the 'Original Nine', but what of the Battle Barges of other 'lesser' Chapters? Can these Battle Barges expect the same sort of longevity? How likely are they to be destroyed?

Cheers

As likely as the plot requires...

In the 40k Imperium ships are incredibly durable, ships have been recovered from space hulks and crash sites, they've been able to operate after millennia adrift. Ships that are holed from stem to stern can be rebuilt and put back in action. Space Marines essentially have a blank check and access to the best technology and workmanship and can keep a ship going forever if they need to. In the recent books Guilleman was using his 10,000 year old battle barge as a flagship, it was still in action with the Ultramarines.

In addition older tech is just better than newer. Technology in the Imperium has been in decline, but also because in the 40k universe there really is such a thing as spirits and machines acquire their own consciousness over time.

Plus I remember an amusing story from the real world. Something like there's this rare antique car, only 100 ever made. Today however there are 200 certified copies of it today. How? To qualify as authentic you need to have an original body, or engine/transmission... so it's not impossible to turn one car into two.

In 40k it's easy to see the same thing. A battle barge crashes on some world. After a few centuries the Adeptus Mech come by and salavage the guts, the reactors, the ship's computer, the engines and leave the hull. They build a new ship around it and present it to a chapter as an authentic Great Crusade ship. A few centuries later a Rogue Trader salvages the hull and installs new guts and presents it to a different chapter.

And so it goes.

So short answer, yes. Anything can be justified with enough thought and good fluff.

Space Marines don't often take part in Space battles, and spaceships in 40k are never retired, so a spaceship can easily last a few thousand years.
Even Imperial Navy ships usually get quite old. Void warfare in 40k doesn't tend to be very intensive. It is usually involves only a very low number of ships and the losing side can often withdraw before being completely destroyed. Space battles in which a ship gets fully destroyed are much less common.
And even if a ship is destroyed, it can often be salvaged and rebuilt.

So yeah, it is perfectly fine for any ships in 40k to be millennia old. Especially for large and valuable designs.

Equally, a lot of successor chapters - at least, second and third founding ones - would have been equipped from the armouries of their progenitor - it's quite likely that the Novamarines flagship was an Ultramarines legion vessel.

But yes, chapter battle barges are often millenia old, even in successor chapters.

Then you get the odd crossovers - like the Space Wolves using an Emperor-class battleship as a battle barge.

It's incredibly likely that a space marine chapter's battle barge IS 10,000 years old. They dont make many of them anymore. Second founding chapters ended up running off with the first founding's leftover toys. Even 3rd and later foundings often ended up with old vessels.

That is IFF they were lucky enough to get a whole battle barge. Most chapters only have a strike cruiser or two. Most do not possess a battle barge.



The original legions had 1-2 glorconda battle barges and then 10-20 smaller battle barges and a few score(to possible a hundred) strike cruisers.

 Exergy wrote:
That is IFF they were lucky enough to get a whole battle barge. Most chapters only have a strike cruiser or two. Most do not possess a battle barge.

I thought it was more along the lines of being that every Chapter had at least one Battle Barge, with the older (e.g. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc Founding) Chapters having more.


At any rate - Would a Chapter founded during the 6th Founding that was Fleet-Based or a Chapter founded during 4th Founding have (for example) two or three Battle Barges?

 IllumiNini wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
That is IFF they were lucky enough to get a whole battle barge. Most chapters only have a strike cruiser or two. Most do not possess a battle barge.

I thought it was more along the lines of being that every Chapter had at least one Battle Barge, with the older (e.g. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc Founding) Chapters having more.


At any rate - Would a Chapter founded during the 6th Founding that was Fleet-Based or a Chapter founded during 4th Founding have (for example) two or three Battle Barges?

Like I said as many as the plot requires.

There's room there for some good stories. Maybe this chapter is very aggressive in hunting down rumors of lost/crashed/captured ships crossing half the galaxy to reclaim a Barge from an Ork fleet.

Maybe they're a bit too aggressive, you don't want to know what they did for that Rogue Trader who gave them a barge back in M38.

Or just unwise, they've built up a fleet but find themselves owing favors to half the forge worlds in the sector.

The fluff in BFG stated that the largest chapter fleets consisted of 3 battle barges, 10 strike cruisers and numerous escort craft (the latter of which were only run by 1-5 marines). We can assume these fleets were fleet based chapters, maybe most 1st founding chapters and a sprinkling of 2nd founding chapters. Obviously not counting Black Templar or Space Wolves as these are above codex allowed numbers. We can also assume as a maximum, these are an exception rather than the rule, as it also stated some chapters had a single or no battle barge at all.

I know it's cheating a bit since Chaos messes with time, but the vengeful spirit was Horus original vessel and Abbadon is still flying the dam thing around. Considering the Imperium is loath to retire anything they can fix, most are probably ancient

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I know it's cheating a bit since Chaos messes with time, but the vengeful spirit was Horus original vessel and Abbadon is still flying the dam thing around. Considering the Imperium is loath to retire anything they can fix, most are probably ancient

vengeful spirit wasn't the only example, until very recently the Ultramarines still held their old heresy era flagship, Macragges honor, sadly it was recently captured by the Red Cosairs (whom between that and a black stone sotress have a lot of firepower) that said I'm kinda hoping the Ultramarines get their flagship back it'd be a fun thing to see the MNacragge's honor and the vengeful spirit scrapping it out in a future story

Spaceships in 40k last for millennia: The Dominus Astra took part in a major conflict in M37 and was destroyed during the Battle for Macragge in 745.M41, over 4200 years later

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dominus_Astra

Odds are it was around a lot longer before the first conflict of note, and had the Tyranids not forced its hand at Circe, it would have been around for a long time.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I know it's cheating a bit since Chaos messes with time, but the vengeful spirit was Horus original vessel and Abbadon is still flying the dam thing around. Considering the Imperium is loath to retire anything they can fix, most are probably ancient

The vengeful spirit is also larger and more advanced than anything the IoM can build today. They repair the old stuff as best they can because if they dont, they wont have anything like it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 IllumiNini wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
That is IFF they were lucky enough to get a whole battle barge. Most chapters only have a strike cruiser or two. Most do not possess a battle barge.

I thought it was more along the lines of being that every Chapter had at least one Battle Barge, with the older (e.g. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc Founding) Chapters having more.


At any rate - Would a Chapter founded during the 6th Founding that was Fleet-Based or a Chapter founded during 4th Founding have (for example) two or three Battle Barges?

Some might, but I dont think all do. There are 1000 chapters, that would mean there are 2-3000 battle barges. Chaos would have approximately the same, as there weren't many built in the intervening 10,000 years. So 5,000 battlebarges in the galaxy. Battlebarges are less common than battleships, so perhaps 50,000 battleships. That just seems too many for anything approaching rare/valuable. Also seems too many considering what comes bigger. 8 Blackstone fortresses(now 2-3 active) 20 Gloriana Battlebarges. 1-2 planet killers, and 1 Phalanx.


A battlebarge is also just too big for a chapter. In the HH they are described as having facilities for almost an entire legion. In times since they are always written about as having deck after deck of vacant space that people haven't ventured into for decades. There are also writings of entire chapters being based out of a strike crusier.


It just doesnt scale right. It makes more sense to have there be only 500 battlebarges and 5000 battleships in the galaxy. At which point there are only 250 or less battlebarges in the IoM and most chapters are going to have to go without
So I think a chapter with 3 battlebarges is going to be very rare with some crazy story as to why they are so well equipped.

Going by the First Founding Chapters we know that they tend to have around 8 battle barges or more.