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With recent events occurring on Baal, I see a lot of people discussing the idea that Sanguinius will return in the same manner Guilliman has to save the day. Its time to let go man. He's gone. In fact, he is so dead that Blood Angels are still feeling the pain of his death 10,000 years later.

When their beloved Primarch was slain at the hands of the Arch-traitor Horus at the very height of the Horus Heresy, every Blood Angel was doomed to share a portion of the pain inflicted upon his flawless form. From that day forth, every Blood Angel has been tormented by visions of the last moment of Sanguinius. The older the Space Marine gets, the more frequent and debilitating such waking nightmares become. Should he not fall in battle, every Blood Angel will one day become so consumed by these soul-searing visions that he will descend into a madness in which he must witness the death of Sanguinius over and over again, ever unable to intervene as the Warmaster enacts his vile treachery.

In all of 40K, Sanguinius is amongst the top 3 most dead characters in the entire setting. Don't get me wrong, Blood Angels/Salamanders/Black Templar are my favorite SM chapters. Imo, Sanguinius is probably the most badass primarch since he defeated Khabandha & attempted to defeat Horus infused by the chaos gods alone.

We all love Sanguinius, but hes gone man. He died with greater honor than pretty much anyone. Bringing him back would do more damage to the setting than good.

Except i heard a rumour that the horus heresy is getting retconned somewhere along the line. So we might wake up tomorrow and oh yeah sanguinius went into a coma that just looked like he died and now he's woken up and wants to know if that music group is still together and playing. Just saying.

HH has already been retconned far more significantly than leaving Sanguininus potentially alive.

At this point, it would probably go unheralded.

Sanguinius' death, along with that of Ollanius Pius, is what finally prompted the Emperor to stop holding back. Other than Horus himself Sanguinius is the deadest of the Primarchs along with Ferrus Manus. Retconning him back in as being alive all along would be dumb. As a reincarnation, sure, there's precedence, but being alive all along? Nope.

Reincarnation would be super cool. But to be honest they have actual potential living primarchs.

I was hoping Guilliman's new clones would be reincarnations of the primarchs but i guess not.

Wait?! What?! Seriously. Have you guys just never read any Blood Angel codex ever? Ignored the Swallow books completely?! Do you really come to a lore conversation knowing absolutely nothing of the actual lore you're taking about. Because in 2005 we got beat you over your head, can't miss it if you're literate, short of a neon sign, foreshadowing of "Horus might go bad" level obvious warnings that Sanguinius wasn't staying dead. If you missed this TWELVE YEAR HINT DROPPED EVEYWHERE, often, posted on walls, mentioned consistently in multiple unit summaries, chapter materials, codices, short stories, and the actual name of a unit... you forfeit the right to converse about fluff in a fluff rich game.

I mean they flat out told you he was coming back. If this caught you off guard, go watch Scooby Doo episodes, I bet the end will shock you every time.

Let me make the same call everyone could make 12 years and 4 editions ago... Sanguinius is coming back or at least Azkaellon will be reformed as Sanguinius reborn. The retcon will be if he doesn't

I'd hate them to bring back Sanguinius or change the fluff so that he never died. I'm open minded to GW changing the HH fluff to some degree, but I'd prefer that they kill more primarchs rather than find reasons for them to still be around

I'm a supporter of primarchs coming back to 40k, but I think a good balance can be reached where some of the missing/daemon primarchs actually die in the heresy and a handful make it to 40k with Guilliman and Magnus. It would be absurd if a majority of primarchs are still around in 40k, it would really cheapen the 30k lore

Maybe i'm just an old codger, but i remember the good old days where both marines *and* primarchs could and did die of old age. There were two primarchs that could be brought back, and one of them (rowboat) was iffy due to that whole poisonous slash to the neck thing. Nowadays, every primarch is just lurking the in the darkness waiting for the prophecy to be fulfilled so that they can return. It ain't right i tells ya.

 Torga_DW wrote:
Maybe i'm just an old codger, but i remember the good old days where both marines *and* primarchs could and did die of old age. There were two primarchs that could be brought back, and one of them (rowboat) was iffy due to that whole poisonous slash to the neck thing. Nowadays, every primarch is just lurking the in the darkness waiting for the prophecy to be fulfilled so that they can return. It ain't right i tells ya.

I'm of the same mindset. Maybe I am just old but when people die, I expect them to stay dead. Its part of advancing the story. They're many characters I'd like to see come back, but this is supposed to be a grimdark setting. If every important character that dies comes back because "reasons" it negatively impacts the setting as a whole. Several of the primarchs could very well be alive. Why not focus on bringing the ones shrouded in mystery rather than bringing back those who are well beyond dead?

Bringing back Sanguinius will not make him more interesting or improve the setting. He reached the height of any mans glory. Let him rest & honor his memory.

He's dead forever - until the rumoured changes to the Emperor being struck down retcon that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Theory - you heard it here first

Horus will become Malal in the new fluff, Sanguinius' soul was placed inside the Sanguinior's sword as a final act of the Emperor's Psychic prowess.

GW can I have a job now pls

Maybe Blood Angels find out that the psy echo of Sanguinius death is his essence scattered through his sons, waiting to reborn in the darkest hour.
The entire chapter the vessel of Primarch's soul, safe from Chaos through the millennias, Red thirst and Black Rage the pain for future reborn and salvation.

I think the best (most humourous?) way to bring him back is just to bring him back and not talk about it. Sorta like one of those old x-files episodes where mulder dies at the end of one episode (or is about to get an arm cut off or something) and then the next episode he's all well and good and they *just* *don't* *talk* *about* *it*.

 Commissar Benny wrote:


In all of 40K, Sanguinius is amongst the top 3 most dead characters in the entire setting.

Bucky Barnes.

Jason Todd.

20 years ago everyone would have said those two where deader then dead.

there is ample room for Sanguinis to be brought back should GW desire it most likely he'll be reincarnated through the sanguinor and some fancy warp BS

 Lobukia wrote:
Wait?! What?! Seriously. Have you guys just never read any Blood Angel codex ever? Ignored the Swallow books completely?! Do you really come to a lore conversation knowing absolutely nothing of the actual lore you're taking about. Because in 2005 we got beat you over your head, can't miss it if you're literate, short of a neon sign, foreshadowing of "Horus might go bad" level obvious warnings that Sanguinius wasn't staying dead. If you missed this TWELVE YEAR HINT DROPPED EVEYWHERE, often, posted on walls, mentioned consistently in multiple unit summaries, chapter materials, codices, short stories, and the actual name of a unit... you forfeit the right to converse about fluff in a fluff rich game.

I mean they flat out told you he was coming back. If this caught you off guard, go watch Scooby Doo episodes, I bet the end will shock you every time.

Let me make the same call everyone could make 12 years and 4 editions ago... Sanguinius is coming back or at least Azkaellon will be reformed as Sanguinius reborn. The retcon will be if he doesn't

No. 40k used to be setting for you to make up your own stories. Those were just plot hooks for players to use if they wanted.

It's only now that current GW mixed terms setting and story and decided ignore what 40k was to make a cash grab.

tneva82 wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Wait?! What?! Seriously. Have you guys just never read any Blood Angel codex ever? Ignored the Swallow books completely?! Do you really come to a lore conversation knowing absolutely nothing of the actual lore you're taking about. Because in 2005 we got beat you over your head, can't miss it if you're literate, short of a neon sign, foreshadowing of "Horus might go bad" level obvious warnings that Sanguinius wasn't staying dead. If you missed this TWELVE YEAR HINT DROPPED EVEYWHERE, often, posted on walls, mentioned consistently in multiple unit summaries, chapter materials, codices, short stories, and the actual name of a unit... you forfeit the right to converse about fluff in a fluff rich game.

I mean they flat out told you he was coming back. If this caught you off guard, go watch Scooby Doo episodes, I bet the end will shock you every time.

Let me make the same call everyone could make 12 years and 4 editions ago... Sanguinius is coming back or at least Azkaellon will be reformed as Sanguinius reborn. The retcon will be if he doesn't

No. 40k used to be setting for you to make up your own stories. Those were just plot hooks for players to use if they wanted.

It's only now that current GW mixed terms setting and story and decided ignore what 40k was to make a cash grab.

moving the story forward isn't going to have much impact on "your dudes" unless your army is Ultramarines, Blood Angels, or another cannon chapter/army you're not going to be impacted by things much if at all.

My "Emperor's Pink Marines" chapter fighting in my local gaming scene in the "local club sector" isn't going to be that impacted by Cadia falling. the space wolves losing their home etc. the 40k setting is so LARGE GW can do story stuff, with LOTS of room in the margins and cracks for us to fill in with our imagination.

I used to play Battletech, I stopped actively playing it because of the speed of the setting changes, the differance is that the setting consists of basicly 2000 worlds, and the writers in their "wisdom" decided to nuke the Mercenary recruiting world.

the changes to 40k? sure they're big but for most of us they're also pretty much ignorable.

Needs moar Sisters.

ERJAK wrote:
Needs moar Sisters.

Nah. All the Sisters of Battle will sacrifice themselves to resurrect Sanguinius. Once the last Sister is dead, Sanguinius will rise again, piloting a flying Imperial Knight armed with hundreds of multi-lasers.

Coming soon. Co-authored by CS Goto and Mat Ward.

BrianDavion wrote:

moving the story forward isn't going to have much impact on "your dudes" unless your army is Ultramarines, Blood Angels, or another cannon chapter/army you're not going to be impacted by things much if at all.

My "Emperor's Pink Marines" chapter fighting in my local gaming scene in the "local club sector" isn't going to be that impacted by Cadia falling. the space wolves losing their home etc. the 40k setting is so LARGE GW can do story stuff, with LOTS of room in the margins and cracks for us to fill in with our imagination.

I used to play Battletech, I stopped actively playing it because of the speed of the setting changes, the differance is that the setting consists of basicly 2000 worlds, and the writers in their "wisdom" decided to nuke the Mercenary recruiting world.

the changes to 40k? sure they're big but for most of us they're also pretty much ignorable.

Well does mean I'm 100% unable to utilize anything of their fluff and numarines are 100% locked out as well.

It's entirey plausible that the Yinnari (spelling?) come hopping out of the webway somewhere in the Baal system and help the Blood Angels defeat some splinter fleet of Tyranids, then request an audience with Dante.

Yvraine brought back a long dead Rubric Marine right in front of Ahriman from literal dust and bones. Sanguinius has a mortal wound but his body has been kept in stasis since hours or at most a few days since his death. It's currently held in stasis beneath the Blood Angels fortress monastery on Baal.

It's entirely plausible she could restore Sanguinius to life. She restored Guilliman after he dies when the stasis field went down, and Cawl's new armor is keeping the poison Fulgrim used at bay.

The Imperium Nihilus will need a hero to rally the forces trapped in the space above the great warp scar spanning the galaxy. I can think of no better hero to stand and fight for the "Dark Imperium" than a LITERAL Angel with a golden halo of light 'round his head.

It's not retconning anything either with this progression, at least. It's taking current story and advancing it in a fairly logical direction based on what has happened up to this point with the story, what with Fall of Cadia and Rise of the Primarch.

Don't write it off is all I'm saying. Let's see what comes, first.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
It's entirey plausible that the Yinnari (spelling?) come hopping out of the webway somewhere in the Baal system and help the Blood Angels defeat some splinter fleet of Tyranids, then request an audience with Dante.

Yvraine brought back a long dead Rubric Marine right in front of Ahriman from literal dust and bones. Sanguinius has a mortal wound but his body has been kept in stasis since hours or at most a few days since his death. It's currently held in stasis beneath the Blood Angels fortress monastery on Baal.

It's entirely plausible she could restore Sanguinius to life. She restored Guilliman after he dies when the stasis field went down, and Cawl's new armor is keeping the poison Fulgrim used at bay.

The Imperium Nihilus will need a hero to rally the forces trapped in the space above the great warp scar spanning the galaxy. I can think of no better hero to stand and fight for the "Dark Imperium" than a LITERAL Angel with a golden halo of light 'round his head.

It's not retconning anything either with this progression, at least. It's taking current story and advancing it in a fairly logical direction based on what has happened up to this point with the story, what with Fall of Cadia and Rise of the Primarch.

Don't write it off is all I'm saying. Let's see what comes, first.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I get where you are coming from & maybe that is exactly how it will play out. Perhaps Yvraine will bring back Sanguinius in the same manner Guilliman was resurrected. Will the story be better for it though? If Sanguinius can be brought back, why couldn't the Emperor? Why not bring back Lord Solar Macharius & every other hero of the IoM? The death of Horus was the most significant event to occur in the 40K setting. Largely due to the death of both Sanguinius & the emperor. By bringing back Sanguinius it makes that event less significant. Sanguinius sacrifice cannot be surpassed.

Again, I'm not hating on Sanguinius or Blood Angels. I'm a big fan of both. I just don't see how it improves the setting. Its kind of like what happened in Game of Thrones recently. One of the main reasons people watch Game of Thrones is because anyone could die. Recently however, several characters which were deemed dead, or died came back to life due to plot armor. In doing so, it allows the audience to latch onto those characters because they know they have said plot armor and they will not die. In the end, the very thing that attracted said audience to the show was lost in the process.

 Commissar Benny wrote:
I get where you are coming from & maybe that is exactly how it will play out. Perhaps Yvraine will bring back Sanguinius in the same manner Guilliman was resurrected. Will the story be better for it though? If Sanguinius can be brought back, why couldn't the Emperor? Why not bring back Lord Solar Macharius & every other hero of the IoM? The death of Horus was the most significant event to occur in the 40K setting. Largely due to the death of both Sanguinius & the emperor. By bringing back Sanguinius it makes that event less significant. Sanguinius sacrifice cannot be surpassed.

GW should give out SOME logical limits for Yvraine's power. Otherwise it's completely illogical why it's not resurrecting...well basically everybody that would fight for them.

You don't need fiction to follow IRL rules to be realistic. You do need internal logic though. If you introduce somebody bringing dead back you need to think what it would mean. And logically it would result in lots of people getting...well resurrected! If you don't want death become irrelevant by everybody being brought back you need to have some sort of limitations to the power. That or figure how world becomes when death is no worry anymore and everybody is essentially immortal.

Now not saying Yvraine is bad and maybe GW HAS explained somewhere what it's limitations are and why it's not resurrecting big names left and right.

He's dead, but as we all know space vampires have a space habit of not staying space dead for space ever.

Ps. I like the idea that the chapter's curses are actually the fractured psych of Sanguinius. Cool twist.

 Snake Tortoise wrote:


I'm a supporter of primarchs coming back to 40k, but I think a good balance can be reached where some of the missing/daemon primarchs actually die in the heresy and a handful make it to 40k with Guilliman and Magnus. It would be absurd if a majority of primarchs are still around in 40k, it would really cheapen the 30k lore

This. If you start bringing back every Primarch and his dog back the whole thing loses weight. Those handful that managed to survive this long? A really big deal. Not so much if literally everyone came back.I love the Blood Angels, use to have an army at one point, but the permadeath of Sanguinus is part of their appeal. Arguably the most noble and heroic of the chapters and their Primarch made the most heroic and noble of sacrifices.

At MOST I can see the factured psych of Sanguinus within the chapter curse taking a physical form in a moment of dire need. But a full on return from the dead? That hasn't been alluded to, and it's be a bad(story wise) thing if it did. People stop reading books or watching TV shows if every major conclusive death is handwaved away, same principle applies here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thud wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Needs moar Sisters.

Nah. All the Sisters of Battle will sacrifice themselves to resurrect Sanguinius. Once the last Sister is dead, Sanguinius will rise again, piloting a flying Imperial Knight armed with hundreds of multi-lasers.

Coming soon. Co-authored by CS Goto and Mat Ward.

Argh, my eyes!!!

nareik wrote:
I like the idea that the chapter's curses are actually the fractured psych of Sanguinius. Cool twist.

Now you're on to something.

The psychic shock of all the Blood Angels dying at once causes Sanguinius to reform.

Oh, wait, thats the Eldar tale, never mind

tneva82 wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:
I get where you are coming from & maybe that is exactly how it will play out. Perhaps Yvraine will bring back Sanguinius in the same manner Guilliman was resurrected. Will the story be better for it though? If Sanguinius can be brought back, why couldn't the Emperor? Why not bring back Lord Solar Macharius & every other hero of the IoM? The death of Horus was the most significant event to occur in the 40K setting. Largely due to the death of both Sanguinius & the emperor. By bringing back Sanguinius it makes that event less significant. Sanguinius sacrifice cannot be surpassed.

GW should give out SOME logical limits for Yvraine's power. Otherwise it's completely illogical why it's not resurrecting...well basically everybody that would fight for them.

You don't need fiction to follow IRL rules to be realistic. You do need internal logic though. If you introduce somebody bringing dead back you need to think what it would mean. And logically it would result in lots of people getting...well resurrected! If you don't want death become irrelevant by everybody being brought back you need to have some sort of limitations to the power. That or figure how world becomes when death is no worry anymore and everybody is essentially immortal.

Now not saying Yvraine is bad and maybe GW HAS explained somewhere what it's limitations are and why it's not resurrecting big names left and right.

Far as we know Yrvine's pwoers are pretty limited. it looks like Yrvvine can only interact with souls AS THEY DEPART. in other words the person's got to literally be dying at the time they're ressurected. also given Gulliman HAS to wear the armor, chances are Yrvvine cannot heal the PHYSICAL damage. (thats what Cawl and the armor was for. Yrvvine, simply "repaired the damage to his soul")

BrianDavion wrote:
Far as we know Yrvine's pwoers are pretty limited. it looks like Yrvvine can only interact with souls AS THEY DEPART. in other words the person's got to literally be dying at the time they're ressurected. also given Gulliman HAS to wear the armor, chances are Yrvvine cannot heal the PHYSICAL damage. (thats what Cawl and the armor was for. Yrvvine, simply "repaired the damage to his soul")

Couldn't the Emperor be brought back to life then? The golden throne has prevented his soul from departing per the fluff:

"the Golden Throne's life support systems will eventually malfunction and the Emperor of Mankind will die, surrendering His spirit to the Warp and throwing all of Mankind into darkness once more"

Yvraine could simply resurrect him as the remains of the Emperor were removed from the throne. These are the kind of silly plot holes GW is creating by attempting to rush the setting.

Take the primaris marines for example. So Fabius Bile has spent the last 10,000 years attempting to create superior space marines. It should have been him who came up with the means of creating advanced space marines that invaded and overwhelmed Cadia during Abaddon's crusade. Then in reaction to said threat Guilliman needing an immediate answer to said threat, should have had Cawl create Thunder Warriors specifically to deal with the new chaos marines.

Infinitely better than the cannon lore. Grimdark & still keeps the IoM in a technological regression era. GW needs to slow down, lest they bring back Sanguinius and ruin one of the greatest characters that ever existed in 40K.

Sanguinius is very very dead. There has been a bunch of stuff about a BA prothecy. A hero that'll defend the Emperor in humanities darkest hour, wearing golden armour. Of course people are going to think of Sanguinius for this because come on, when you think "blood angels" and "gold" Sanguinius will be the first thing you think of. No other character could possibly fit the description.

and so Sanguinius was revived... and no longer did the Blood Angels see a horrifying death every day...

So now that the Blood Angels were finally feeling pretty chill, they decided to retire to the beach planet of Planet Kalgan.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:


In all of 40K, Sanguinius is amongst the top 3 most dead characters in the entire setting.

Bucky Barnes.

Jason Todd.

Thomas and Martha Wayne, Uncle Ben.

I can do this too. 40k ain't a comic, so stop trying to compare their respective narrative styles.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Far as we know Yrvine's pwoers are pretty limited. it looks like Yrvvine can only interact with souls AS THEY DEPART. in other words the person's got to literally be dying at the time they're ressurected. also given Gulliman HAS to wear the armor, chances are Yrvvine cannot heal the PHYSICAL damage. (thats what Cawl and the armor was for. Yrvvine, simply "repaired the damage to his soul")

Couldn't the Emperor be brought back to life then? The golden throne has prevented his soul from departing per the fluff:

"the Golden Throne's life support systems will eventually malfunction and the Emperor of Mankind will die, surrendering His spirit to the Warp and throwing all of Mankind into darkness once more".

Isn't emp's problem a largely physical one in the first place? Unless the eldar are going to volunteer their new god to work as his new life support chair I don't see that working out in the long run.