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Link: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/17/528719352/violence-breaks-out-during-protest-at-turkish-embassy-in-washington-d-c

The link has some pretty amazing video.


On the same day that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan visited President Trump at the White House, protesters were gathered at the Turkish Embassy in Washington, D.C.

During Tuesday's demonstrations, an altercation broke out and nine people were injured, two seriously, and two arrests were made.

Dustin Stenbeck, a spokesman for the Metropolitan Police Department, says the fight was between two groups.

He didn't elaborate, but did say that one of the people arrested was charged with assaulting a police officer.

CNN reports a Facebook video showed several protesters who were injured, some covered in blood:

"We are protesting (Erdogan's) policies in Turkey, in Syria and in Iraq," said Flint Arthur of Baltimore, Maryland.
"Arthur accused Erdogan supporters of breaching police lines and attacking protesters on at least three separate occasions. "They think they can engage in the same sort of suppression of protest and free speech that they engage in in Turkey," Arthur said. "They stopped us for a few minutes ... but we still stayed and continued to protest Erdogan's tyrannical regime."
The altercation outside the ambassador's residence occurred hours after the Trump-Erdogan meeting.

The Washington Post reports: "Erdogan is staying at Blair House across from the White House during his visit, and was apparently not at the embassy during the demonstration."

At their White House meeting earlier, Trump and Erdogan had nice things to say about each other — even after the U.S. decided to arm Kurdish fighters in Syria.

Miles Parks reported for The Two-Way:

"The Turkish president made it clear that the Trump administration's decision to arm one group of Syrian Kurds fighting the Islamic State will "never be accepted."

"U.S. military officials have long argued in favor of supporting the Kurds in Syria against ISIS because they are such competent soldiers. The decision to arm them came last week, amid preparation for an offensive to retake what is effectively the capital of ISIS, the city of Raqqa in northern Syria. Military officials say the Syrian Kurds are key to that mission.

"Erdogan's administration, however, considers the Syrian Kurds terrorists because of their ties to Turkish Kurds who have been waging an insurgency to create an independent state for the past three decades. The U.S. and the European Union agree with Turkey that the group of Kurds in

Turkey known as the PKK are indeed terrorists, and the Trump administration has sought to ease Turkish worries that the weapons provided to Kurds in Syria would not end up in the hands of the Turkish Kurds.
Trump said Tuesday that the U.S. would ensure the PKK has "no safe quarter."


This seems like the beginning of a Diplomatic incident.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/17 21:51:21


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Doubtful anything will come of it. The US is trying to up armaments to SDF forces for the long awaited Raqqa siege.

We ain't gonna start a diplomatic row over a street brawl.
   
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SoCal

"Nothing will come of it". I thought we weren't allowed to talk about US politics, let alone encapsulate it in 5 words.

   
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Simplest thing to do is to declare those Turkeyian thugs 'Persona Non-Grata'...

Meaning, they'd have to leave the US stat.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/17 20:30:10


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SoCal

 whembly wrote:
Simplest thing to do is to declare those Turkeyian thugs 'Persona Non-Grata'...

Meaning, they'd have to leave the US stat.




Were they part of Erdogan's entourage, with diplomatic immunity?

   
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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Simplest thing to do is to declare those Turkeyian thugs 'Persona Non-Grata'...

Meaning, they'd have to leave the US stat.




Were they part of Erdogan's entourage, with diplomatic immunity?


It is taking all of my self control not to dump Lethal Weapon memes. All. Of. My. Control.



Also, that video in the OP link with the guy repeatedly kicking the woman on the ground? Classy.
   
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Simplest thing to do is to declare those Turkeyian thugs 'Persona Non-Grata'...

Meaning, they'd have to leave the US stat.




Were they part of Erdogan's entourage, with diplomatic immunity?

That's my understanding...

Not much we can do, other than to immediately expel them from the US.

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At this point aren't the Kurds one of the few options for a semblance of a stable state in that region? Then again, most of the governments there also hate them for the usual reasons you can apply to any of the minority groups in the Middle East.
   
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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Simplest thing to do is to declare those Turkeyian thugs 'Persona Non-Grata'...

Meaning, they'd have to leave the US stat.




Were they part of Erdogan's entourage, with diplomatic immunity?


Yeah, we probably can't charge them with anything, but in the end of the day, agents of a foreign government attacked US citizens on US soil, for using their 1st Amendment rights. Our government cannot just over look this, period.

Our State Department needs to demand everyone of those men be removed from the country immediately.

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 djones520 wrote:


Our State Department needs to demand everyone of those men be removed from the country immediately.


Looks like they are on it.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/17/state-dept-is-working-to-id-erdogan-bodyguards-who-beat-up-protesters/

he State Department is working with Washington, D.C. police and the U.S. Secret Service to identify the bodyguards working for Turkey’s president who beat up protesters outside of the Turkish embassy in Washington, D.C. on Tuesday.

The melee left at least nine protesters injured and generated intense backlash against Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

“We will continue to work with our partners at the United States State Department and United States Secret Service to identify and hold all subjects accountable for their involvement in the altercation,” reads a statement from the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Department.

The department said that Tuesday’s violence stands “in contrast to the First Amendment rights and principles we work tirelessly to protect each and every day.”n a press conference on Wednesday, DC police chief Peter Newsham said that investigators “have a good idea of some of the folks” involved in the violence.

Newsham added that “a diplomatic immunity issue” could arise in the case since registered diplomats are generally protected from prosecution in criminal cases. But Newsham added that “we are going to pursue everything that’s in our legal power” as part of the investigation.

The State Department said in a statement that it is communicating its concern to the Turkish government “in the strongest possible terms.”

We are concerned by the violent incidents involving protestors and Turkish security personnel Tuesday evening. Violence is never an appropriate response to free speech, and we support the rights of people everywhere to free expression and peaceful protest,” State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said.

Video footage of the incident shows men wearing suits clashing with a group of about two dozen Armenian and Kurdish protesters who oppose Erdogan, who was in town to visit with President Trump.

Erdogan had just finished his meeting with Trump when the melee ensued. The authoritarian ruler then went to the ambassador’s residence to meet in a closed session with members of the Atlantic Council, a Washington, D.C. think tank that receives donations from Turkey.

Footage showed that Washington, D.C. police struggled to contain the violence. At least two people were arrested, though it is not clear whether they were supporters or opponents of Erdogan.

Some of the attackers Tuesday were seen kicking protesters in the head, leaving them covered in blood. One man required stitches on his head, and a woman who was beaten underwent a CT scan, a witness told The Daily Caller.

That witness, Aram Suren Hamparian, also captured footage of the attacks. He told The Daily Caller that the pro-Erdogan side appeared to be professional security forces.

“It all took place at once. It was by very capable people. It felt to me, it looked to me like a highly orchestrated attack,” said Hamparian, the executive director of the Armenian National Committee of America.

Hamparian is highly critical of the Turkish government due to its refusal to recognize the Armenian genocide of a century ago.

The actions of Erdogan’s security forces is not a surprise to many observers of Turkish politics. Erdogan has led a nationwide crackdown against critics of his regime. Thousands have been jailed and tens of thousands more have been forced from their jobs, often based on hazy allegations of having ties to terrorist groups.

Erdogan’s bodyguards were involved in a similar incident during a visit to Washington, D.C. last March. The bodyguards verbally and physically assaulted a group of anti-Erdogan journalists outside of an event hosted by the Brookings Institution.

A social media campaign began on Wednesday to identify the Erdogan bodyguards involved in the brawl. #ArrestErdogansBodyguards features still images of video footage of the bodyguards beating protesters.

Frederick Kempe, the CEO of the Atlantic Council, condemned Tuesday’s violence.

“The Atlantic Council strongly condemns the violence that occurred involving protestors and Turkish security personnel Tuesday evening outside an event that the Council was co-hosting for Turkish President Erdoğan,” Kempe said in a statement.

“The proper authorities will determine what, if any, actions should be taken against those who instigated the violence. Such behavior only detracts from the Council’s foundational mission of promoting constructive US leadership alongside friends and allies to secure the future.”


   
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 djones520 wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Simplest thing to do is to declare those Turkeyian thugs 'Persona Non-Grata'...

Meaning, they'd have to leave the US stat.




Were they part of Erdogan's entourage, with diplomatic immunity?


Yeah, we probably can't charge them with anything, but in the end of the day, agents of a foreign government attacked US citizens on US soil, for using their 1st Amendment rights. Our government cannot just over look this, period.

Our State Department needs to demand everyone of those men be removed from the country immediately.


Strange I thought they where on US soil. Oh wait. They have every right as your not in Turkey to exercise those regardless as they are guests in a host country and have no rights to block a citizens rights.

Kick his thugs out. Or have US police guard thr next protest with clear orders to prevent assult by any force required.

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So the democratic government that calls us all Nazis beats up protesters abroad? Noooo, not the great government of Turkey.

I'm by no means a fan of the 2nd amendment, but its a shame no protesters were packing. I'm sure after that video the jury would be sympathetic. Bad showing by law enforcement though.

Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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 avantgarde wrote:
Doubtful anything will come of it. The US is trying to up armaments to SDF forces for the long awaited Raqqa siege.

We ain't gonna start a diplomatic row over a street brawl.

Well, keep in mind who we have as president. He seems to be pretty unconcerned with the mundanities of modern diplomacy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 04:28:08


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 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
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Yeah, I don't see how this doesn't go down as an American politics thread, but considering how politics determines/governs/describes our viewpoints, I don't see how any thread could be anything other unless we just want to divorce it from reality. Which we might. Fiction is good too. But then all good fiction is based upon/commenting upon current reality. So there's that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/17 23:49:56


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I predict nothing of consequence will come of this.

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 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
It is taking all of my self control not to dump Lethal Weapon memes. All. Of. My. Control.




Also, nothing is probably going to happen with this.

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SoCal

So, who is paying for the medical care the victims received? The woman who had the CT scan may also require a lot more care. Can they sue the bodyguards, or does diplomatic immunity prevent that?

   
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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So, who is paying for the medical care the victims received? The woman who had the CT scan may also require a lot more care. Can they sue the bodyguards, or does diplomatic immunity prevent that?

I'm guessing they're going to have a hard time collecting the money even if they can get it to a court with jurisdiction.

Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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I don't think diplomatic immunity protects from civil suits, but I'm not sure.

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 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
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 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Yeah, I don't see how this doesn't go down as an American politics thread


When I think of verboten US politics discussions, I think of domestic politics and I am pretty sure that's the general understanding. This is more of an international incident that happened to occur in the US.

At a minimum, these guys should be ejected from the US. Diplomatic immunity doesn't apply to these guys if it isn't in the course of their duties, so I don't think it's going to apply here. Still, I doubt there will be arrests.


 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I don't think diplomatic immunity protects from civil suits, but I'm not sure.


It would certainly protect from collecting on a judgement, so a moot point I think

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/18 05:48:36


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 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I don't think diplomatic immunity protects from civil suits, but I'm not sure.


It does. However it is common that the host country asks for immunity to be waived for that particular suit, if the other country doesn't comply it often results in that diplomat and his family being expelled.

   
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 Disciple of Fate wrote:
So the democratic government that calls us all Nazis beats up protesters abroad? Noooo, not the great government of Turkey.


I don't know much about the relationship between Turkey and the Netherlands so more info would be enlightening.

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 Wyrmalla wrote:
At this point aren't the Kurds one of the few options for a semblance of a stable state in that region? Then again, most of the governments there also hate them for the usual reasons you can apply to any of the minority groups in the Middle East.




I wouldn't put much stock in the Kurds. They're really no better than any of the rest of them. The Kurds in Iraq have a history of persecution and murder against the Assyrian Christians living in the northern part of the country, just not to the level of Hussein's Ba'athist regime. And there have been hostile Kurdish actions against the lower class Arabs that Saddam forcefully relocated, or lured with the promise of cheap public housing, to the same region, under his policy of "Arabization".



I have no sympathy for the Kurds, despite them having wooed most of the West into believing that they are only victims defending themselves (rather than being guilty of ANY aggression) in the regions conflicts they end up involved in. They were, and still are, allies of convenience against whatever secular dictator D.C. wants to topple at the moment. The fact that they just happen to be fighting against the Islamic State right now is just a bonus.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 14:13:18


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 oldravenman3025 wrote:
 Wyrmalla wrote:
At this point aren't the Kurds one of the few options for a semblance of a stable state in that region? Then again, most of the governments there also hate them for the usual reasons you can apply to any of the minority groups in the Middle East.




I wouldn't put much stock in the Kurds. They're really no better than any of the rest of them. The Kurds in Iraq have a history of persecution and murder against the Assyrian Christians living in the northern part of the country, just not to the level of Hussein's Ba'athist regime. And there have been hostile Kurdish actions against the lower class Arabs that Saddam forcefully relocated, or lured with the promise of cheap public housing, to the same region, under his policy of "Arabization".



I have no sympathy for the Kurds, despite them having wooed most of the West into believing that they are only victims defending themselves (rather than being guilty of ANY aggression) in the regions conflicts they end up involved in. They were, and still are, allies of convenience against whatever secular dictator D.C. wants to topple at the moment. The fact that they just happen to be fighting against the Islamic State right now is just a bonus.


Huh, oh I acknowledge all of you're points, I'm just extremely biased.

   
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 Ahtman wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
So the democratic government that calls us all Nazis beats up protesters abroad? Noooo, not the great government of Turkey.


I don't know much about the relationship between Turkey and the Netherlands so more info would be enlightening.

It was about two months ago. The Turkish government wanted to come and campaign for their presidential referendum, you know, the dictatorship one? Of course they wanted to come right in the middle of our national election campaign right before voting day almost (not suspicious at all). So because we don't really support Erdogan's push for supreme ruler and didn't want his campaign to influence our own elections we said to his ministers to not come before our elections. The minister visiting then tried to force her way into the Netherlands from Germany, after being denied entry into the country. They created multiple fake convoys to evade police interception. Furthermore they made a rally call on Facebook to attend gathering at the consulate in Rotterdam already forbidden on public order grounds. So things come to a head and police manage the block her from entering the consulate. A SWAT team needs to come in and disarm her security guards because they would not divulge if they were carrying weapons and did not let the police approach her. In the end she was declared persona non grata and before she would have been towed back to Germany in her car in the most undignified way she finally gave up. Then all the Erdogan supporters started rioting and riot police needed to intervene to stop them, which resulted in Erdogan calling us all Nazis. Oh and he called the Germans Nazis too for blocking rallies. Of course him calling us Nazis is quite ironic to say the least But it shows that Erdogan considers himself and his supporters above the law, aptly demonstrated by the US example.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/12/netherlands-bars-turkish-ministers-as-nazi-remnant-dispute-escalates

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 15:43:28


Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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 oldravenman3025 wrote:
 Wyrmalla wrote:
At this point aren't the Kurds one of the few options for a semblance of a stable state in that region? Then again, most of the governments there also hate them for the usual reasons you can apply to any of the minority groups in the Middle East.




I wouldn't put much stock in the Kurds. They're really no better than any of the rest of them. The Kurds in Iraq have a history of persecution and murder against the Assyrian Christians living in the northern part of the country, just not to the level of Hussein's Ba'athist regime. And there have been hostile Kurdish actions against the lower class Arabs that Saddam forcefully relocated, or lured with the promise of cheap public housing, to the same region, under his policy of "Arabization".



I have no sympathy for the Kurds, despite them having wooed most of the West into believing that they are only victims defending themselves (rather than being guilty of ANY aggression) in the regions conflicts they end up involved in. They were, and still are, allies of convenience against whatever secular dictator D.C. wants to topple at the moment. The fact that they just happen to be fighting against the Islamic State right now is just a bonus.
There are no innocent groups in the region really, they've all done terrible things and will likely do so again in the future.

That said, the Kurds have been consistent allies of the US over many years, have kept their area of Iraq relatively safe for both themselves and for US/coalition partners, and ultimately have built their own state that is going to be irrevocably autonomous and effectively independent, and that isnt a total heap like much of the rest of Iraq. You can go to malls in Erbil that look like they could be in Europe or the US, you can grab a drink and go to a club. They have real economic growth. If we must support anyone in that area, they're the most logical choice.

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 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I don't think diplomatic immunity protects from civil suits, but I'm not sure.

Diplomatic immunity protects against pretty much everything. It is a great thing to have
Only thing a host country can really do is expelling someone or asking the other country to revoke the immunity. But those things rarely happen as it can severely damage diplomatic relations. Usually when a diplomat goes too far in his host country, his government just recalls him to prevent further problems. Such an incident can be quite a setback to one's diplomatic career, but it is extremely rare for diplomats to be punished further than that. Guards, families and others with diplomatic immunity are even less likely to get punished in any way.
It can be frustrating of course if people with diplomatic immunity do something wrong, but that is just the price you pay for maintaining good relations.

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 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I don't think diplomatic immunity protects from civil suits, but I'm not sure.

Diplomatic immunity protects against pretty much everything. It is a great thing to have
Only thing a host country can really do is expelling someone or asking the other country to revoke the immunity. But those things rarely happen as it can severely damage diplomatic relations. Usually when a diplomat goes too far in his host country, his government just recalls him to prevent further problems. Such an incident can be quite a setback to one's diplomatic career, but it is extremely rare for diplomats to be punished further than that. Guards, families and others with diplomatic immunity are even less likely to get punished in any way.
It can be frustrating of course if people with diplomatic immunity do something wrong, but that is just the price you pay for maintaining good relations.

Yeah... just ask New Yorkers how they feel about diplomats ignoring parking tickets whilst in Manhattan.

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 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I don't think diplomatic immunity protects from civil suits, but I'm not sure.

Diplomatic immunity protects against pretty much everything. It is a great thing to have
Only thing a host country can really do is expelling someone or asking the other country to revoke the immunity. But those things rarely happen as it can severely damage diplomatic relations. Usually when a diplomat goes too far in his host country, his government just recalls him to prevent further problems. Such an incident can be quite a setback to one's diplomatic career, but it is extremely rare for diplomats to be punished further than that. Guards, families and others with diplomatic immunity are even less likely to get punished in any way.
It can be frustrating of course if people with diplomatic immunity do something wrong, but that is just the price you pay for maintaining good relations.


Aye. That's a hard one to truely punish anyone.
However America, Russia etc depending on nation are the big diplomatic jobs.
Us diplomat might be a career peak somewhat

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 whembly wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I don't think diplomatic immunity protects from civil suits, but I'm not sure.

Diplomatic immunity protects against pretty much everything. It is a great thing to have
Only thing a host country can really do is expelling someone or asking the other country to revoke the immunity. But those things rarely happen as it can severely damage diplomatic relations. Usually when a diplomat goes too far in his host country, his government just recalls him to prevent further problems. Such an incident can be quite a setback to one's diplomatic career, but it is extremely rare for diplomats to be punished further than that. Guards, families and others with diplomatic immunity are even less likely to get punished in any way.
It can be frustrating of course if people with diplomatic immunity do something wrong, but that is just the price you pay for maintaining good relations.

Yeah... just ask New Yorkers how they feel about diplomats ignoring parking tickets whilst in Manhattan.

Happens in the Hague too. Middle Eastern princes speeding through the capital cities of Europe. Its a miracle people don't get hurt more often. Its the infuriating side of diplomatic immunity.

Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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