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Made in au
Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot





Australia

Hey guys,

So I'm helping someone on my Friendly Local Fanon Wiki with a Chapter that revolves around the idea that at least most of the Chapter are exiled from their parent Chapter for particular crimes or short-comings (or something else that might earn them extreme dishonour) and are brought into this Chapter to swear Oaths of Moment (or whatever the 41st Millennium equivalent is) to make up for said transgression(s) by serving this Chapter unto death. For the most part, getting the Chapter to work once these Astartes have been recruited is pretty straight forward since they'd work like any other Chapter with our own creative spin put on it, but the biggest problem I'm coming across in terms of helping with this Chapter is how an Astartes might get themselves into a situation where exile from the Chapter (and subsequent recruitment into this particular Chapter) is an option. Here's what I have so far in terms of recruitment:

-- So there'd have to be a permanent baseline Chapter (For example - A baseline Chapter of 100 - 200 Astartes founded from Ultramarines gene-stock). This would allow some level of 'normal' within the Chapter in terms of recruiting and numbers as well as allowing the Chapter to be part of the normal Foundings and whatnot.

-- As for these "Repentant Astartes", I was thinking something like how an Astartes might be put into the service of the Deathwatch but instead of being experienced, honoured Astartes that join this Chapter, it's the most dishonoured and shamed Astartes within the Chapter that are exiled and sent to this Chapter. This part ties in with the problem I have.

So my question is this: How can I make this work? Am I on the right path or do I need to take another route?

Cheers

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 14:16:45


 
   
Made in gb
Agile Revenant Titan






Well I think this idea is excellent like the Night's Watch, but with posthuman supersoldiers.

I don't necessarily think there's a need for a base chapter. Just do like the Night's Watch and have some of the dishonoured scum of the Astartes world rise to positions of authority. If you want them to be heroic have them commit some atrocity that had to be done, event though they knew the result.

If you want the history they could once have been a genuine chapter who disgraced themselves, and the other chapters saw an opportunity to rid themselves of all those deemed to be too malicious, psychotic or just politically inconvenient to remain in the chapter

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Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







So...we're talking sort of a penal legion version of the Deathwatch?

Lore on this sort of thing that I've seen previously implies that an individual Chapter will send disgraced Marines off on ad-hoc penitent-crusade suicide missions rather than having an established protocol, so I'd expect this to be fairly informal ("You're sentenced to exile! Go die honourably and we'll put your name in the book of the honoured dead!" "Well, okay, I guess I'm going to go team up with the Legion of the Dead, then." rather than "You're sentenced to go find the Legion of the Dead! Go die honourably!" "Okay, then.") or a sector-wide arrangement rather than something galaxy-spanning.

As for how you might get sentenced to go join the Legion of the Dead (using this as a temporary name because of some dwarves in Dragon Age that work this way) anything that might get you shot in a real military could be on the table (cowardice in the face of the enemy, desertion, that sort of thing), but in the 41st millennium you've also got "Suspected corruption: go off and die nobly to prove you weren't actually corrupted" out of some kinds of contact/interaction with Chaos/xenos forces to worry about.

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Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

Something like 100 chapters were sent into the Eye of Terror on a penitent crusade after some heretical super-pope declared them to be unclean.

So yeah, it's absolutely possible.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

What if the Marines who exiled the dishonorable ones are all obsessed with hunting down the exiles? And maybe the exiles are really the honorable ones after all??

In all seriousness, this is a pretty tried and true idea. A little more complicated example would be the Sons of Medusa. They are a IH successor but ... well, not in the traditional sense. There was a heresy within the AdMech and IH being quite close to the AdMech they got drawn into the whole mess. To avoid a Chapter War, the faction of IH that supported the heretical techpriests split off and became the Sons of Medusa.

As to DW service, see Black Shields.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 16:32:00


   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





as noted, sending pentinents off to basicly die honorably is doable. I could see a space marine company being given that treatment. I'd caution agaisnt using the word chapter to describe it for two reasons. 1: if they where really dishonored and exiled chances are they would NOT be recruiting. their mission is to die, not to compound their dishonor by bringing new faces into it. This is doable but if so I'd make some reccomendations to your force set up. to start with I'd avoid any veterns or terminator armor, I'd try to paint the gear to look worn etc I'd consider avoiding a heavy use of specialists etc. basicly, avoid any units in which would make people go ".. a bunch of exiles had access to this?"

you could likewise do something similer to the sons of medusa where a chapter was split due to some sort of schism that happened. but that wouldn't nesscarily be dishonor. (you could even tie it into the Primairs Marines. if a chapter for example became incrediably split on weather or not to accept them)
this would require a little more thought then just "ohh they're exiles attempting to regain their honor" but it'd allow you to do a bit more with it.

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Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

If anybody wants to read more about the ideological/theological conflict behind the "founding" of the Sons of Medusa, see here:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/457902.page

   
Made in gb
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend





Perhaps look into the Souldrinkers? Excommunicated Astartes fighting on the good guys' side.

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Made in au
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





This can work one of two ways.

1) A Night's Watch equivalent of the Deathwatch, where individuals from many different chapters are excommunicated and sent to redeem themselves (in death) during service to this separate chapter. The problem with this being that there are few such disgraces that cannot be dealt with internally that ALSO don't quite warrant straight up execution.


2) A collection of several severely understrength chapters that are disgraced, defeated or otherwise undesirable and have been thrown together for a pentient crusade. Despite the odds they keep surviving and, through their mutual cooperation, have over time formed a recognisable chapter of their own. Perhaps in part to wash out the shame of their old chapters.

Either way these marines are sent, tasked with or seek out the most dangerous of targets and missions with the most dubious chance of success. Realistically speaking the 2nd option seems more likely, the Imperium will dispose of an unworthy marine or two internally no doubt. However entire chapters in disgrace must be put to some use rather then expunged en masse if it can be helped. There is also definitely evidence for this occurring as some others here have mentioned. The Badab War, at least apart from the Astral Claws, is a good example. Many 'rebel' Astartes Chapters underwent the exact same thing, however the difference would be that the chapters were still strong enough to operate independently. It's easy enough to see how pentient chapters might be thrown in together, say one chapter lost its entire fleet while another has the fleet but barely anyone to man or operate from it.

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Made in my
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






At my desk

Space Marine Bad Company?

Realistically the logistics of such an organisation would be horrendous. But it's a nice concept and an army of different Astartes colours would look interesting if pulled off correctly.

So sure, why the hell not?

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Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior





West Virginia

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
2) A collection of several severely understrength chapters that are disgraced, defeated or otherwise undesirable and have been thrown together for a pentient crusade. Despite the odds they keep surviving and, through their mutual cooperation, have over time formed a recognisable chapter of their own. Perhaps in part to wash out the shame of their old chapters.


I think this sounds like it could be pretty cool. Maybe a chapter got basically wiped out by an "inferior" force and their few remaining members are shamed for the defeat, or a group from a chapter retreated from a position that other marines felt should have been defended to the last man. All these stragglers and shamed marines coalesce into this force where they are all out to prove that they are still capable warriors so they take on crazy missions.

I feel like the idea of them committing crimes against the chapter and that sort of thing would be a little more difficult to pull off because I feel like they would be more likely to just execute them if they did anything bad enough that would otherwise necessitate expulsion from the chapter. But, it is your idea, so do it however you want.
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph





'Straya... Mate.

I personally really like this idea, company command + a squad or so extra keep an eye on the rest.
Have the untrusted mark their armour with a mark of shame.

 
   
Made in gb
Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds




Great idea, have you read the ultramarines series by Graham McNeil? Something similar happens in that and there are a bunch of dishonoured Astartes on a planet.

Ultra-Ultramarines are a great idea. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






HATE Club, East London

A good idea as long as they are not turned into Mary Sue types. Make it so the vast majority deserved their exile, and the chapter/brotherhood/crusade can barely function due to the combination of hotheads, loners, egotists and maniacs.

The other option is that they are the remnants of a task force from five or six chapters, and their terrible ordeal against chaos/tyranids/hrud/ghoul stars region or whatever was so cataclysmic that they were in some way reforged and their loyalties to their fellow survivors became more important to them than their old chapter loyalties. Only those who go through similar experiences can then join them. Or, they could, perhaps, still recruit new marines, but have truly horrifying induction procedures that bond groups of recruits to their fellow survivors and the new "chapter". I like that idea so much I might do it myself!

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Made in kr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

Last chancers in power armor. What's not to like?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/21 12:34:13


   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






The Dog-house

Could always go the White Scars route. Make a Chapter formed from those who thought about joining Horus and got sent on suicide missions.

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Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





United Kingdom

How about them being collected together as a sort of 'repentence brigade'?

So they've all committed minor offences, like retreating when others stood their ground, or even standing their ground when they were ordered to retreat. All 'offences' that are too minor to have them put to death, but enough to band them all together and tell them to go and die in the Emperor's name in order to redeem themselves.
   
Made in fi
Confessor Of Sins




One problem with this idea (to work around ofc) is the incredible pride marines usually take in their Chapter, it's reputation and their own accomplishments furthering all that. It would take something quite extraordinary to make them send disgraced marines somewhere someone else can learn of their shame instead of just handling it themself (you'll lead this boarding action and die honorably, or else).

But failing your duty isn't the only thing one might consider. Some aspirants fail because all their implants don't take properly, and even if the Black Carapace forms properly (allowing full use of power armor) they're just not fit for all the duties expected of them. Some Chapters might kill these guys, others could use them for support functions - but what if some let them live long enough to harvest the progenoid glands and then send them off to find a glorious death?
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Earlobe deep in doo doo

Theres a Death Watch story like this based upon cursed founding marines being united together against a common foe by an inquisitor.

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Made in se
Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh






Reading, UK

Would it be a problem though if the outcasts decided to say screw this, kill the 200 and go rogue? I guess it would all depend on the severity of their crimes. I suppose the most extreme cases would have run off and become renegades.

No pity, no remorse, no shoes 
   
Made in no
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






And there's always someone willing to take two companies' worth of disgruntled and dishonoured Space Marines!

   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

 Llamahead wrote:
Theres a Death Watch story like this based upon cursed founding marines being united together against a common foe by an inquisitor.


I think the problem you run into with having a large scale operational force of exiles is simple logistics. Somebody is supplying those boys with ships and ammunition and food and the like.

"Normal" chapters all have pacts with the adeptus mechancus for supplies, while traitor or chaos forces have their own dark mechanicus. For truly rogue chapters, it'll be tougher, but there are a lot of options:
1) They have a powerful patron, such as a chapter grandmaster, High lord of terra, etc. that approves of having some sort of Adeptus Astartes last chancers.
2) they have a powerful patron with their own motives, such as an inquisitor or rogue trader, who sees a lot of value in building his own army of Astartes.
3) they have coopted a chapter that was nearly wiped out and could not be rebuilt, but still have active supply contacts.

I know logistics isn't the sexiest part of 40k, but its one of the biggest reasons you don't see a lot of rogue Space Marines.
   
Made in gb
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Glasgow, Scotland

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Well I think this idea is excellent like the Night's Watch, but with posthuman supersoldiers.

I don't necessarily think there's a need for a base chapter. Just do like the Night's Watch and have some of the dishonoured scum of the Astartes world rise to positions of authority. If you want them to be heroic have them commit some atrocity that had to be done, event though they knew the result.

If you want the history they could once have been a genuine chapter who disgraced themselves, and the other chapters saw an opportunity to rid themselves of all those deemed to be too malicious, psychotic or just politically inconvenient to remain in the chapter



Well, the thing is the Deathwatch already do the same thing the Night's Watch do. The Night's Watch (GAME OF THRONES SPOILERS IF ANYONE HASN'T WATCHED BECAUSE THEY'RE HEATHEN) was original made of honourable men out for glory, but quickly devolved into a Get Out of Execution Free card because they old had to fight the odd Northern invasion. The Deathwatch is already what the Night's Watch should be in theory, and even has room for the odd dishonoured member through the Black Shields system.

The "modern" Night's Watch would be what happens if you got caught for Heresy and volunteered for the Deathwatch because you'd only have to fight the odd Feral Ork mob every few years.


My overall point is that a Night's Watch chapter wouldn't work. The Imperium does not look kindly on heresy, treachery or incompetance, and guilt in any one of the three would be grounds for painful execution. You certainly don't want to put all the heretics, traitors and useless lot in one place, the Night's Watch in GoT is kinda evidence of why that's bad. If they just made a mistake, you send them on a 100 year Penitence Crusade and if they're still stupid, exile or execution. Heresy and Treachery is automatic death sentence, it's just not tolerated in the theocratic Imperium.

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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






The Chapters on the losing side of the Badab War (other than the Astral Claws themselves) weren't painfully executed. They had their Chapter fiefs confiscated and given to the victors, and sent on penitent crusades. During their hundred year crusades, they are not permitted to recruit new Marines. The Mantis Warriors' homeworld was ceded to the Space Sharks, while the Executioners' was taken in trust by the Salamanders. The Lamenters were reduced to around 300 Marines during the conflict, then nearly annihilated by Hive Fleet Kraken.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/23 12:22:52


 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Glasgow, Scotland

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The Chapters on the losing side of the Badab War (other than the Astral Claws themselves) weren't painfully executed. They had their Chapter fiefs confiscated and given to the victors, and sent on penitent crusades. During their hundred year crusades, they are not permitted to recruit new Marines. The Mantis Warriors' homeworld was ceded to the Space Sharks, while the Executioners' was taken in trust by the Salamanders. The Lamenters were reduced to around 300 Marines during the conflict, then nearly annihilated by Hive Fleet Kraken.




I did say "grounds for painful execution." It all depends on which highest-ranking Imperial authority is making the call. A sympathetic Space Marine commander might send them on that crusade, a Puritan inquisitor of the Hereticus might execute them or might forgive as they deceived by Huron. Inquisitor Karamazov would have them all executed for neutrality if he could.

However, any one of those three examples could rightly sentence the Chapters to death and declare them Excommunicate Traitorous for their actions, and it would not only be legally correct but also well justified.

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