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This is a thread to talk about about things Duardin related. Kharadron, Fyreslayer, Dispossed or Azgorh, take your pick!

Right now I'm in the early phases of starting a Kharadron force, and I can't decide on what Skyport to go with. Should I go with one of the ready made ports or make my own? Back in the day, I had a dwarf army in red and white livery ('the bad santas' ) so making a Barak Thryng force would be a nice call back to that. However, I feel like I can't pass up the opportunity to use the code system to it's full effect and make up my own.

Incidentally, does anyone know where I can find information on the dwarf language? I can't find my old fantasy dwarf book and if I am making up my own port I'll need to know the lingo. It'll be useful for naming the ships too.

One other thing; how are the Fyreslayers. I love the look and lore behind them, and in truth the only reason I didn't get any is because I was already collecting an army of vicious axe wielding killers in the form of the Bloodbound. But since they're an early release I would assume that they don't match up to the later ones. No artifacts of power or anything like that right?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
This is a thread to talk about about things Duardin related. Kharadron, Fyreslayer, Dispossed or Azgorh, take your pick!

Right now I'm in the early phases of starting a Kharadron force, and I can't decide on what Skyport to go with. Should I go with one of the ready made ports or make my own? Back in the day, I had a dwarf army in red and white livery ('the bad santas' ) so making a Barak Thryng force would be a nice call back to that. However, I feel like I can't pass up the opportunity to use the code system to it's full effect and make up my own.

As it stands Urbaz is the best Kharadron build due to their superior khemist buff stacking. However, there is a rumor that with GHB2 buffs with the same name will no longer stack in matched play, which would bring Urbaz down to the same level as the others.

For info on the language try these links
http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khazalid_lexicon
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Khazalid

hth

I hear the frontline gaming guys always talking about Barak-Mornhar a lot and how good they will be.

 Gamgee wrote:
I hear the frontline gaming guys always talking about Barak-Mornhar a lot and how good they will be.

It depends on the enemy. They are certainly good thanks to the command trait, but since the buff is limited to one enemy unit at a time I'm not sure it's THAT powerful. The unit you pick will probably be really, really dead but Kharadron shooting is already more than enough to blow one unit off the board; you generally don't need or want it all focused at the same target. Its also a case of a really powerful command trait on a 5-wound hero...

Perhaps most importantly for someone doing that sort of a build, it would be stronger to just go with Order allegiance and bring a hurricanum.

I am still struggling to come up with a skyport theme as well, most of the pre made ones have one or two good abilities but then the others are not so good.

I'm thinking of going with a teal and white colour scheme similiar to Barak thryng, but swapping the red for teal and maybe a blues wash on the white armour.

As for the code I am going to try
- settle grudges
- always run 6" for skyvessels
- D3 mortal wounds

My starting force will be 2 frigates, 2 company, 1 admiral and a unit of thunderers.


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In regards to Fyreslayers, I bought a small force and used a few
old slayers as proxy's. Found that they are fairly durable in a fight with the battlesmith nearby, but once the numbers get low they get wiped out pretty quick. I would love more but just too expensive. If anything I feel they play like a horde army or a monster heavy army and not much in between due to lack of model range.

I've been running a custom skyport for my games. I appreciate the prebuilt ones, but I don't face anything that can fly ever, and a lot of what I fight are not monsters/heroes. Plus I don't run any of the battalions because I find Frigates are a terrible unit for their cost. I tend to take Settle The Grudges, Always Take What You Are Owed, and There's No Trading With Some People. For a command trait I've been simply taking Stickler for the Code to also have Surrender is Rarely Profitable.

The combination there allows me to finish off a key unit if I need to, keep a squad of company men alive after a devastating attack, reroll ALL THE MINIGUN 1's EVER, and bring two artifacts for my gunhaulers to have.

It's all been working out fairly well in my experience.

Using the regular code seems to be more beneficial than using one of the port cities. The exception would be if your strategy would require a set that would be beneficial to your strategy (A Barak-Nar army against a Tzeench army for example, or gaining advantage from Barak-Urbaz's Aether-khemists)

Also doesn't the rules for Stickler to the code have you roll and not choose? since it said generate a code I would think they meant you had to roll on the footnote table.

IMO "generate" would default to whatever the normal rules are for generating a footnote, which means pick or roll, your choice. But I can see a good argument for it being random too.

I don't think it says you have to randomly decide, I read it over several times for a tournament so I would be certain to have rules correct and I've basically just stuck to the same Code since.

sainted75 wrote:
For info on the language try these links
http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khazalid_lexicon
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Khazalid

hth

Thank you for those links! They'll come in handy for ship names.

And as for stickler for the code, I think that you can choose to pick another one yourself if you want. I think it mentions rerolls just in case you do decide to roll for it. And I think that would be a good opportunity to roll for it myself. You pick the one you really want and then let fate give you a bonus.

And one more question. If I take the Always Take What You Are Owed Amendment and I use it to take an additional Great Endrinwork, can I take the same one for different ships? For example, if I had three frigates in an Iron Sky Squadron, could I take Malefic Skymines for all three of them? One for your regular edrinwork, one for having the battalion, and one for having the Amendment?

I would say no. the Endrinworks are still listed under what would be considered artifacts. So each one should be unique.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

sainted75 wrote:
For info on the language try these links
http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khazalid_lexicon
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Khazalid

hth

Thank you for those links! They'll come in handy for ship names.

And as for stickler for the code, I think that you can choose to pick another one yourself if you want. I think it mentions rerolls just in case you do decide to roll for it. And I think that would be a good opportunity to roll for it myself. You pick the one you really want and then let fate give you a bonus.

And one more question. If I take the Always Take What You Are Owed Amendment and I use it to take an additional Great Endrinwork, can I take the same one for different ships? For example, if I had three frigates in an Iron Sky Squadron, could I take Malefic Skymines for all three of them? One for your regular edrinwork, one for having the battalion, and one for having the Amendment?

Like artifacts, you can have multiples of the same one in your army (you just can't have more than one on the same model). However, Always Take What You Are Owed specifically grants an artifact which =/= a great endrinwork. So you can't pick an extra endrinwork using that amendment, only an artifact.

Oh so Always Take What You Are Owed won't give me an extra Great Endrinwork, but I can gain extra endrinworks for having battalions and it is possible to take the same endrinwork twice, just on different ships? And every ship can only have one.

So in a fleet with an Iron Sky Squadron, I'll have access to two Great Endrinworks (one per normal plus one for the battalion), and I could give two ships the same endrinwork, but only one endrinwork for each ship? Sorry if this is obvious, but I want to get it right for my first game.

Also is it just me or is There's No Trading With Some People a no brainer?

Yeah..uh..don't listen to NinthMusketeer. "Always take what you are owed" specifically states you can take an additional "Artefact of Power" There's no restrictions listed there. "Artefacts of Power" in the book are Great Endrinworks, Aethermatic Weapons, and Treasures of the Sky-Ports. All three of these are directly under artefacts.

It does state heroes can equip an artefact of power, but literally all three things are under the catagory and none of the three are specifically stated as being what you can take.

Oh right!

Well, at present I wouldn't need ATWYO because two works will do. I was looking at the Malefic Skymines, but in truth at present I think sticking The Last Word on each Frigates Aethershot Carbines would be the best way to go. They aren't terribly powerful weapons but I reckon they'd be more likely to do damage than the one shot main gun. And it would let me get aggressive with the ships.

"If a Kharadron Overlords army includes any Heroes, then one may bear an artifact of power. ... You may choose one additional hero to have an artifact of power for each warscroll battalion in your army."

"Additionally, if a Kharadron Overlords army includes any Skyvessels, then one may include a great endrinwork. ... You may choose one additional Skyvessels to have a great endrinwork for each warscroll battalion in your army."

Note how this is called out as being in addition to artifacts of power, as compared to things like Stormcast lanterns or bloodsecrator standards that are specifically named as being instead of.


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Besides... You just said above that each endrinwork and artifact is unique but that's wrong; you can have multiples of the security one in an army. I don't think you have strong rule credibility right now.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
"If a Kharadron Overlords army includes any Heroes, then one may bear an artifact of power. ... You may choose one additional hero to have an artifact of power for each warscroll battalion in your army."

"Additionally, if a Kharadron Overlords army includes any Skyvessels, then one may include a great endrinwork. ... You may choose one additional Skyvessels to have a great endrinwork for each warscroll battalion in your army."

Note how this is called out as being in addition to artifacts of power, as compared to things like Stormcast lanterns or bloodsecrator standards that are specifically named as being instead of.


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Besides... You just said above that each endrinwork and artifact is unique but that's wrong; you can have multiples of the security one in an army. I don't think you have strong rule credibility right now.

I forgot that Sigmar let's you take the same thing more than once, sue me. I do however have the book right in front of me and the FIRST THING under Artefacts of Power are Great Endrinworks. So..yeah..try again.
The other two are not called out specifically. So by your logic heroes can't equip anything on the two pages.

"Alternatively, pick one of the tables on the opposite page..."


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Now if we want to go with your interpretation that endrinwork are artifacts, then they are allocated from the same pool. This means an army with one battalion and always take what you are owed gets three models which can have an artifact, chosen from the endrinwork or other two tables as appropriate.

If endrinworks are not artifacts, then the same army gets three heroes with artifacts AND two skyvessels with endrinworks.

I'll let you pick which one you want.

I'm still sticking to you being wrong on this. All three tables are under Artefacts of Power. Therefore all three are considered Artefacts of Power. I could be wrong. GW has no FAQ on this and they are incredibly bad at things like this. Why place them on the same pages without any distinction if they aren't the same? Why name all three differently but specifically want two tables to be different from the third and only two of them to be what the pages title them as?


Also towards your edit: No. You're twisting my words entirely. The book does state you get an artefact on your hero and a skyvessel gets an endrinwork. But Always take what you're owed allows another. By the entire way the book is set up, you should then be allowed to take 2 heroes with artefacts and a skyvessel with 1. Or alternatively take 1 hero with an artefact and 2 skyvessels with them.

Because the very first thing under artifacts of power is the two paragraphs explaining how the tables work and the distinction between hero artifacts and great endrinworks.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Because the very first thing under artifacts of power is the two paragraphs explaining how the tables work and the distinction between hero artifacts and great endrinworks.

Great Endrinworks are just boat artefacts...

When you make lists, do you give yourself one artifact/endrinwork +1 per battalion, or do you give yourself 1 artifact and 1 endrinwork +1 artifact and +1 endrinwork per battalion?

I thought it was 1 Aethermatic Weapon, 1 Treasure Of The Sky-Ports and 1 Great Endrinwork for your army, with an additional one of each for each battalion?

The rules say that you can take one for a boat and one for a hero. So far literally none of the battalions that can be run under 2000 points seem at all appealing so I don't run any.
But the rules that you're asking about, if I did take a battalion, I would take one on another hero. It specifically mentions that a hero can take another one per battalion. It doesn't say a skyvessel gets an additional per battalion.

You're just reading too far into them saying heroes get an artefact of power. Heroes get access to two different tables for their artefacts while a skyvessel only has the one table. It just makes it far easier. Going over what the paragraphs state, nothing at all says that only the opposite page are what you can take under that Amendment.

Edit:I did just notice the skyvessel part. So I guess one on a hero and one on a boat per battalion.

 mmzero252 wrote:
The rules say that you can take one for a boat and one for a hero. So far literally none of the battalions that can be run under 2000 points seem at all appealing so I don't run any.
But the rules that you're asking about, if I did take a battalion, I would take one on another hero. It specifically mentions that a hero can take another one per battalion. It doesn't say a skyvessel gets an additional per battalion.

You're just reading too far into them saying heroes get an artefact of power. Heroes get access to two different tables for their artefacts while a skyvessel only has the one table. It just makes it far easier. Going over what the paragraphs state, nothing at all says that only the opposite page are what you can take under that Amendment.

Edit:I did just notice the skyvessel part. So I guess one on a hero and one on a boat per battalion.

First off, you don't seem to know the rules very clearly at all since that is the third time youve made a factually inaccurate claim. Secondly, when it is an advantage to you, you are counting artifacts and endrinworks separately to give yourself more of them. But when it comes to the amendment you suddenly switch gears and say they are the same. Either endrinworks are artifacts of power and accordingly reduce the number you have available for heroes when you use them, or they aren't artifacts of power and the amendment can't be used to gain them.


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 Future War Cultist wrote:
I thought it was 1 Aethermatic Weapon, 1 Treasure Of The Sky-Ports and 1 Great Endrinwork for your army, with an additional one of each for each battalion?

Note how both the weapon and treasure charts are referred to as artifacts of power, and how it says a hero assigned an artifact can be given one from either table. If it were one per table per battalion then armies like Stormcast would be getting 4 artifacts just for showing up!

What did I say wrong this time since you seem to be the expert on how it's precisely worded in the book I'm literally reading. The only thing I forgot was that sigmar lets you take the same thing more than once. Sorry I assumed it was still like 40k where a unique piece of gear doesn't suddenly multiply on a whim.

And I've not made any conflicting claims about anything. The amendment says you get a new artefact. Artefacts are both for boats and heroes since all three charts are under the label "Artefacts of Power". The paragraphs say you get one for a hero and one for a boat. Additionally it states you get one for a hero and one for a boat per battalion. That's what I've been saying. It's all right there to read, I'm not sure how you're missing this.

Multiples of the same artifact can be taken. The first thing under artifacts of power is not endrinworks, and an army does gain an extra endrinwork per battalion.

I agree that an army gets one artifact and one endrinwork, plus one of each per battalion. It works that way because they are two separate things. Let me put it this way, where does it say that endrinworks ARE the same as artifacts of power? Your only argument is that it's because they are from the same section, which is because they have overlapping rules. Much like a mournfang's ball of ice is listed under shooting weapons despite it not working the same as shooting attacks.

I think you may need your eyes checked. The first table under it IS Great Endrinworks...
Also the entire first line proves you wrong anyhow. You were too focused on the paragraphs to even realize.

"These artefacts are crafted in the sprawling forges and foundries of the sky-ports. They can be aethermatic weapons, masterwrought armour or wondrous pieces of technology borne by skyvessels, but all are potent tools in the hands of the Kharadron Overlords."

The description even says that the artefacts "borne by skyvessels" are artefacts of power. That would be "part of skyvessels" or shown on the table below as Great Endrinworks.
So I guess I was right the whole time.

So your entire argument is that fluff trumps rules, I see why this has been going nowhere. And no, the first thing on the page is the description of how they work. The first TABLE is endrinworks but that was never what you said.

Edit: I suppose it's four factually inaccurate claims since you also stated that the two hero charts were not called out specifically when they are.