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Made in gg
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




Ok all, got a strange question for you all (with a healthy does of why I want to know)

Can Ogryns become Psykers (I'm fully aware that if one did he would likely be drowned by his fellow ogryns to help put out the fire his body is wreathed in or be taken away by the black ships never to be seen again)

What I am looking for is a plausible explanation as to why a planet is producing far less psykers then would be normal for a planet of its size and type. The World in question has a sizeable Ogryn population (or though in the case of this world ogryns have come about through generations of selective breeding of humans with strength being the main focus).

My Inquisitor needs a to put forward one (or more) plausible theories as to why this world is producing less psykers (its a Hive world with a population of tens of billions so a large drop is likely to be noticed) that would satisfy those who have knowledge of such things (tech biologists, other inquisitors etc) without drawing unwanted attention or unwanted visitors checking for themselves. In practice what is happening is that the Inquisitor is keeping these Psykers for himself.

Hence my question regarding Ogryns. Is there a genetic component needed to develop psychic powers, and if so is it possible (and plausible) that the Ogryns don't have this genetic component. I realise that Psykers have a mutant gene that allows them to become Psykers, could it be possible that the Ogryns are missing this gene (and therefore it cant be mutated). I am thinking that the Inquisitor could put forward that this missing gene still exists in large parts of the non ogryn population and therefore why there is less psykers coming from this world. As for why the drop since the Inquisitor has arrived at the planet, I am still working on that, so any suggestions on how he explains that would be gratefully appreciated.

Ultimately he wants to continue his work without ending up on the wrong end of a bolter.

Currently working on a Hive World Imperial Guard 'Codex' - You can find the WIP here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/711392.page

'My Sword'
'Where did you leave it'
'In the back of a Primarch'

Cookie if you can remind me who said that 
   
Made in us
Imperial Agent Provocateur






If i remember correctly the navigators only exist due to genetic manipulation, as well as blanks. So it would be reasonable to assume something similar is applicable to all other psykers and anti-psykers. Using this line of reasoning, that means that normal humans aren't supposed to be psykers at all.

So you could say that the current population is just the descendants of a population of un-modified humans. And since humans and ogryns are just differant subspecies with commen ancestors this could also be applied to ogryns.

Alternitively, due to polygenetics and/or pleotropic genetics, the ogryns could have developed a gene (or had a dormant gene activated) that naturally supresses the psyker gene. Again due to subspecies relations, this can be applied to regular humans.

Or maybe humans are supposed to evolve into psychic beings, and ogryns just went down an entirely different evolutionary path and lost the ability to become psykers.


If nothing else you can always claim either warp, genetic, plot shinannigans.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/22 06:48:00


1500pts Kabal of the Blood Moon
200pts Order of Ash and Silver
 
   
Made in gr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

One reason for the Imperium of Man is so the Emperor can guide mankind's evolution into a psychic race free from the perils of the warp and daemonic interference (Dark Millenium from the BRB triple pack).

This, alongside the existence of various 'psykerish' mutants, such as Navigator, Pariah, etc strongly suggest to me there I a genetic element in the emergence of psykers and / or the emergence of 'safe' psykers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/22 06:56:52


 
   
Made in gg
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




 Madoch1 wrote:
If i remember correctly the navigators only exist due to genetic manipulation, as well as blanks. So it would be reasonable to assume something similar is applicable to all other psykers and anti-psykers. Using this line of reasoning, that means that normal humans aren't supposed to be psykers at all.

So you could say that the current population is just the descendants of a population of un-modified humans. And since humans and ogryns are just differant subspecies with commen ancestors this could also be applied to ogryns.

Alternitively, due to polygenetics and/or pleotropic genetics, the ogryns could have developed a gene (or had a dormant gene activated) that naturally supresses the psyker gene. Again due to subspecies relations, this can be applied to regular humans.

Or maybe humans are supposed to evolve into psychic beings, and ogryns just went down an entirely different evolutionary path.

If nothing else you can always claim either warp, genetic, plot shinannigans.


The thing is that there has been a drop in the number of psykers (previously it was at a normal level until the Inquisitor). so the descendent option doesn't work. I think I might be able to explain the drop through extensive purges, but for a prolonged drop, that just wouldn't hold water for very long (unless the Inquisitor could come up with a plausible explanation), like it not, the Imperium needs Psykers for the Golden Throne so he would likely be advised to stop his purges (or at least start bringing the Psykers in alive for the Black Ships). This means he needs a plausible explanation as to why after his first round of purges resulted in such a drop (killing off a large portion of the population with the Psyker gene for example). As I say, the reasoning doesn't need to be (and isn't) true, it just needs to be plausible enough that others don't come poking around asking questions.

Currently working on a Hive World Imperial Guard 'Codex' - You can find the WIP here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/711392.page

'My Sword'
'Where did you leave it'
'In the back of a Primarch'

Cookie if you can remind me who said that 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






In the 1st edition rules, Ogryns have a 1% chance of being psychic. I can't remember what the rate of psykers in ordinary humans is, but it's significantly higher than that.
   
Made in gb
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought





It's simple: psychic ability is directly tied to intellectual capacity. Ogryns are just barely sapient so they generate psykers at a ridiculously low rate.
If a planet suddenly (for values of suddenly adjusted for generational spans and Warp-travel) stops producing psykers I'd expect something to be suppressing the intellectual development of the population, be it some novel disease, an industrial by-product, or something else.

Either that or somone's "borrowing" the psykers and fudging the numbers.

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in gg
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




 Mr_Rose wrote:
It's simple: psychic ability is directly tied to intellectual capacity. Ogryns are just barely sapient so they generate psykers at a ridiculously low rate.
If a planet suddenly (for values of suddenly adjusted for generational spans and Warp-travel) stops producing psykers I'd expect something to be suppressing the intellectual development of the population, be it some novel disease, an industrial by-product, or something else.

Either that or somone's "borrowing" the psykers and fudging the numbers.


Read my above post - this is exactly what is happening. My Inquisitor is looking for a plausible (all be it fictional) reason why the numbers have dropped so as not to draw the attentions of other Inquisitors or Magos Biologists.


Currently working on a Hive World Imperial Guard 'Codex' - You can find the WIP here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/711392.page

'My Sword'
'Where did you leave it'
'In the back of a Primarch'

Cookie if you can remind me who said that 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought





Oh, right, misread. Hm. A good "cover" eh?
Wait, if he's got sufficient control to kidnap a bunch of psykers, why doesn't he just have them reported as killed while resisting containment? Normal numbers are "produced" but abnormal quantities are killed before they can be tithed. With enough creativity he could even cover up the unusual death rate amongst the psychic population with manufactured reports of Warp cults rising then being suppressed, by himself.
Hell, he could go full Chessmaster and start cults himself to draw out his prospective "recruits" then have the junior inquisitors and such like root out and 'destroy' them under his guidance.

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in gr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

Lets assume a 1% psyker rate for Hive cities.

Just have him round up 99 non-psychic scum from hive bottom, have him redact any official record they might be involved in and turn them into servitors or dog food.

Or, have him screen newborns and have him kill 99 (before their births are certificated) ... obviously he'd need to screen these for the possibility of developing psychic powers.

This way he can keep the psyker to population rate correct. There are also plot hooks; if the average psyker he abducts is in the teens, there would be a ~15 year latency period between birth rate and psyker population.

Likewise, it is hard to redact every piece of official info on a scum. Perhaps someone notices someone that disappeared and starts digging.

The inquisitor could also start a witch hunt coven; ostensibly they hunt down, judge and kill witches. In truth the inquisitor keeps the 'good' ones. This way the coven gets the 'credit' for the drop in psyker population (and no one is going to be mad a bunch of witches got given the Emperor's Mercy) and the inquisitor gets what he wants.
   
Made in gg
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




 Mr_Rose wrote:
Oh, right, misread. Hm. A good "cover" eh?
Wait, if he's got sufficient control to kidnap a bunch of psykers, why doesn't he just have them reported as killed while resisting containment? Normal numbers are "produced" but abnormal quantities are killed before they can be tithed. With enough creativity he could even cover up the unusual death rate amongst the psychic population with manufactured reports of Warp cults rising then being suppressed, by himself.
Hell, he could go full Chessmaster and start cults himself to draw out his prospective "recruits" then have the junior inquisitors and such like root out and 'destroy' them under his guidance.


The problem with the supressing and killing issue is that after a time, he would be advised to stop killing so many so the black ships can be filled.

The Inquisitor isn't killing them, he is building an army of them (he is border line rogue as it is. If the Magos Biologist or other Inquisitors found out what he was doing he would most likely end up with a Bolter round to the head.

I do like the idea of forming cults and covens himself though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
nareik wrote:
Lets assume a 1% psyker rate for Hive cities.

Just have him round up 99 non-psychic scum from hive bottom, have him redact any official record they might be involved in and turn them into servitors or dog food.

Or, have him screen newborns and have him kill 99 (before their births are certificated) ... obviously he'd need to screen these for the possibility of developing psychic powers.

This way he can keep the psyker to population rate correct. There are also plot hooks; if the average psyker he abducts is in the teens, there would be a ~15 year latency period between birth rate and psyker population.

Likewise, it is hard to redact every piece of official info on a scum. Perhaps someone notices someone that disappeared and starts digging.

The inquisitor could also start a witch hunt coven; ostensibly they hunt down, judge and kill witches. In truth the inquisitor keeps the 'good' ones. This way the coven gets the 'credit' for the drop in psyker population (and no one is going to be mad a bunch of witches got given the Emperor's Mercy) and the inquisitor gets what he wants.


Ok, had to read this a couple of times before I understood where you were going. The problem with this is that the numbers of psykers expected isn't based on actual population numbers, but rather what is expected from a world of this type. If the number of Psykers drop below what would be considered the normal range, then questions are going to be asked, and he needs a plausible reason (such as the belief that, in the same way the mutant gene is missing in Ogryns of this world, it is also missing in a large portion of the Human Population and that his recent over zealous purge may have reduced the population with the mutant gene and that he is currently investigating to see if his theories are correct.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/22 18:36:38


Currently working on a Hive World Imperial Guard 'Codex' - You can find the WIP here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/711392.page

'My Sword'
'Where did you leave it'
'In the back of a Primarch'

Cookie if you can remind me who said that 
   
Made in gr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

Then you need to go in the opposite direction and have a breeding program that kills everything but potential psykers. 14 years later you cream the good ones.
   
Made in gg
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




He is not going to wipe out over 99% of a Hive World. Well, he would, but he would need justification - or though you have now sent me in an interesting train of thoughts there.

Currently working on a Hive World Imperial Guard 'Codex' - You can find the WIP here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/711392.page

'My Sword'
'Where did you leave it'
'In the back of a Primarch'

Cookie if you can remind me who said that 
   
Made in gr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

He doesn't need to wipe out the hive world, he just needs to wipe out a proportion equivalent to the number of psykers he takes...

Although, you may be on to something. It would be logistically expedient to just take the psykers and find a reason wipe the population, or even just one spire. Having no people would explain having no psykers!

After all, hives are hotbeds of villainy. There must be nascent chaos cults or xenos activity bubbling up anywhere!

Perhaps this is your inquisitors schtick? Find a corrupt hive spire, take the psykers and then wipe out the remainders just to be sure.
   
Made in gg
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




He isn't going to wipe out any of my Hives - they have better plot armour than his anti plot bullets.

The reason he is at this world is that due to population size, they produce more psykers than other planets.

Currently working on a Hive World Imperial Guard 'Codex' - You can find the WIP here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/711392.page

'My Sword'
'Where did you leave it'
'In the back of a Primarch'

Cookie if you can remind me who said that 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General





Beijing, China

I would think the best way for an inquisitor to do so would be for him to claim a chaotic tzeench cult is operating on the planet. He convineintly never captures any of the tzeench sorcerers alive, but keeps 'finding' evidence of their existence and then frames it on ordinary humans.

The magos biologist wouldnt be able to see through an inquisitor's ruse there, as a magos bioligist isnt trained in tracking and identifiying tzeench cults. Only another inquisitor with some inspection would be able to see through it and determine that the dead corpses that have been found (claimed to have been chaos sorcerers) were just ordinary humans.

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icn1982 wrote:
The Inquisitor isn't killing them, he is building an army of them (he is border line rogue as it is. If the Magos Biologist or other Inquisitors found out what he was doing he would most likely end up with a Bolter round to the head.


Does his plans for this army actually require that the cover-up holds up for very long? A little drop might not ring any bells for centuries. Imperial bureaucracy is known for being slow and inefficient after all.

And another thought occurred to me - the Black Ships usually visit only once a century. There's only so many of them and a lot of worlds to go through. When the ship closes in on the system the Governor is instructed to prepare a tithe of psykers, which are then picked up. This leaves a good number of years between visits where psykers must be dealt with in whatever manner the Governor finds best. It is his duty. Just arresting them and holding them for up to 99 years doesn't seem very efficient so many are surely routinely killed if discovered, especially if they manifest anything that seems like a dangerous power.

So I'd say the Inquisitor should be able to steal away a significant number of psykers in the normal every day purges required to make sure the planet isn't overrun. There's no need for him to fudge the numbers, or maybe he even has to try adjusting them DOWN - who's to say the psyker mutation doesn't become more common faster if there's more psykers around?

   
Made in gg
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




Spetulhu wrote:
icn1982 wrote:
The Inquisitor isn't killing them, he is building an army of them (he is border line rogue as it is. If the Magos Biologist or other Inquisitors found out what he was doing he would most likely end up with a Bolter round to the head.


Does his plans for this army actually require that the cover-up holds up for very long? A little drop might not ring any bells for centuries. Imperial bureaucracy is known for being slow and inefficient after all.

And another thought occurred to me - the Black Ships usually visit only once a century. There's only so many of them and a lot of worlds to go through. When the ship closes in on the system the Governor is instructed to prepare a tithe of psykers, which are then picked up. This leaves a good number of years between visits where psykers must be dealt with in whatever manner the Governor finds best. It is his duty. Just arresting them and holding them for up to 99 years doesn't seem very efficient so many are surely routinely killed if discovered, especially if they manifest anything that seems like a dangerous power.

So I'd say the Inquisitor should be able to steal away a significant number of psykers in the normal every day purges required to make sure the planet isn't overrun. There's no need for him to fudge the numbers, or maybe he even has to try adjusting them DOWN - who's to say the psyker mutation doesn't become more common faster if there's more psykers around?

That's actually quite interesting. Its perfectly plausible that the Inquisitor would know when a black ship is scheduled to arrive (even years in advance) and so the Planetary Governor could just be handing the Psykers over to the Inquisitor, he's not about to question what the Inquisitor is doing with them. I like it. The only potential problem I see is the vast numbers of troops the World is raising for the Imperial Guard on a yearly basis, but unless another Inquisitor is investigating my Inquisitor specifically, it would be reasonably safe for him to gather these psykers.


Currently working on a Hive World Imperial Guard 'Codex' - You can find the WIP here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/711392.page

'My Sword'
'Where did you leave it'
'In the back of a Primarch'

Cookie if you can remind me who said that 
   
 
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