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So here it is, a poll to get a sense of whether people like or dislike the new Primaris Space Marines

I dislike them- I think the idea is weak, and spoils the lore of the normal marines. I would rather GW just be honest about intentions to ultimately upscale the whole range, rather than release a weak concept to try and deceive the collectors.

Also what is going on with the gunshields on the new assault marines.

Negative. I like the models I've seen but just not sure we need even bigger marines. Unless of course, GW decides to do to the Astartes with the Primaris what the Emperor did to the Thunder Warriors with the Astartes.

Then we are stuck.

I voted both because I like the models and their design (well, maybe not the flying cartoon robot Inceptors) and their actual rules, but I dislike their role in the lore and the position their rules hold within the hierarchy within the Space Marine army as a whole.

Wow... I turned positive but understand why many haven't.

I'm neutral: I love the design of the models, but I think they are too big, unless they plan on upscaling the custodians as well. (with thinner legs and helms to match the ccg art, please!!)

The lore is terrible. What are home brew chapters descended from the unknown primarchs, or loyalist traitors supposed to do fluffwise to include these new guys?

Positive or Negative, at least the narrative is moving forward.

SJ

I really don't want all my current Marines phased out, which is a possibility with the Primaris Marines. If it was confirmed they would always be like a support unit I'd be completely positive, but it is not the case.

It changes the army fluffwise too. Marines were always the outnumbered, but never outgunned type, and since I play Crimson Fists, their whole draw about a Chapter on the edge of extinction goes out the window when Rowboat says "hey, have a Chapter of new Marines". No longer are the CF threatened, as to preserve their own geneseed they'll just send the Primaris Marines instead. There's too many inconsistencies for them to really make sense in the fluff, which is why I went for positive and negative.

Did we really need another Primaris marines poll?

But Primaris marines fit in the lore. Didn't the Ravenguard Primarch do it once, but got screwed over by the Alpha Legion? Why couldn't Cawl use his notes/research to do it again? If that's not the case, it's happened once so why not a second time after 10,000 years? To me it fits the lore and they're awesome minis so I'm not quite sure what the problem is.

- They look awesome
- They fit the lore more than people give them credit for
- No more fishing through boxes and boxes of units to get enough heavy weapons for your units
- They still haven't replaced original marines who are still good in their own right
- If Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Noise Marines and Khorne Berserkers are a thing for Chaos, why can't Marines get their own equivalent?

I don't mean to try and tell people who don't like them they're wrong, this is just my opinion and I'm unsure of why people don't like them, other than them not fitting lore, which, in my mind, they do.

I don't play Primaris, I'm playing Death Guard and original Blood Angels, but I think they're awesome personally.

This is my opinion on why they made new dudes and didn't just upscale normal marines:

They don't want to invalidate people's current armies. So they had to keep all of their rules and weapon options and such in the game. But they wanted to release some new good guys who are much simpler to build and play with, as they have far less options to choose from. Current space marine boxes don't even come with every option you can put in a unit. So the Primaris Marines were born to accommodate new players and veterans alike, who want cool figures and an easy time making their army, knowing exactly what each unit does.

Just my thoughts

We can look at it as marine "upgrades"?
They were overdue for a genetic boost maybe?
All I know is the Mechanicus will have their hands full when they try to do ANYTHING with them.
Drop pods: umm, new tin-can design needed.
Terminator Armor: Lost(ish) tech... how are we getting them into one of those? (Actually compared to the very old termies, they may be to scale to the "newer" termies)
Oh! Extra HUGE Centurion armor could be great giggles.

History aside, yes, I am sure they are trying to upscale them to what the lore says they are (people have been "true scale"ing them for ages).
Wouldn't it be funny if it was decided all that are "worthy" can be made into these marines including females?
If you are going to do a re-write, why not go all the way?

It would be great to get those Black Templar knickers in a twist, they have some strange bro-mance with Sisters of Battle anyway.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I really don't want all my current Marines phased out, which is a possibility with the Primaris Marines. If it was confirmed they would always be like a support unit I'd be completely positive, but it is not the case.

It changes the army fluffwise too. Marines were always the outnumbered, but never outgunned type, and since I play Crimson Fists, their whole draw about a Chapter on the edge of extinction goes out the window when Rowboat says "hey, have a Chapter of new Marines". No longer are the CF threatened, as to preserve their own geneseed they'll just send the Primaris Marines instead. There's too many inconsistencies for them to really make sense in the fluff, which is why I went for positive and negative.

My thoughts exactly

 jeff white wrote:
Wow... I turned positive but understand why many haven't.

Same here.

I voted yes, because so far all we have are the rules etc. we simply don't have eneugh lore to JUDGE the Lore.

I think some of them look good, but I voted Negatory as I won't be playing them. Shame they don't stick with 1 size for kitbash purposes and it just makes the rest of your army look like runts.

Models = Boring or bad.

Fluff = Bad. If it wasn't Warhammer I would put the book on a shelf and never read it again.

Other = Marines get more new models. My Eldar still have a load of Finecrap and some hideous models. Other factions need new models. Marines get updates every time a clock chimes.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Positive or Negative, at least the narrative is moving forward.

SJ

Backwards

The narrative is moving backwards...

They are bringing back people who have died, who are apparently using historic design for troops.

I mean seriously, Rowboat designed Primaris 10,000 years ago. Fly a Plane designed 100 years ago...
If the Mechanicus had any sense at all they would have read Towcoats designs and used it as a laugh.

I remember getting into 40k a few years ago, I would visit forums like this and read the thoughts of Warhammer enthusiasts. I was always turned off by the salty old timers throwing stones at every new turn and idea GW produced. I thought I would be always open to fresh ideas, after all, GW has written quite a story. And now this. I am very unhappy with these PRIMARIS space marines. They will come out of the box and tower over my guys. I put a lot of time and effort into my guys. All Forgeworld upgraded, all magnetised, all made with tender loving care. These PRIMARIS marines will defacate all over them. New folks will come in and laugh. I can hear it already. "Wow man, why don't you run those bigger guys?" "Haha, those guys look so much more badass than those small guys!" "Look at how tiny they are! PATHETIC! WHAT LOSER WOULD RUN STUMPY LITTLE MANLETTE MARINES?! POINT AND LAUGH POINT AND LAUGH!!!" I hate PRIMARIS marines.

I like the direction gw is pushing 40k. However, I hope that nu-marines are not broken.
If this is a cash grab, I'm super against it.

Positive, the old SM models are way too small considering they are supposed to be 8ft tall death machines but are the same height as Imperial Guardsmen.

I wish they would have just replaced the current Marines outright instead of this weirdness in the lore with 2 Marine types.

A second kind of Space Marines. Makes no sense to me. Either they are the saviour of the Imperium or not.

Just a note that hasn't been discussed yet I don't think. The Actual Intercessors preform very poorly on the table, and don't fill a good role.

I haven't played with them, but I have played against them and really they didn't do much, his predator killed basically my entire army, and the primaris marines and lieutenants just sat there.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Just a note that hasn't been discussed yet I don't think. The Actual Intercessors preform very poorly on the table, and don't fill a good role.

I haven't played with them, but I have played against them and really they didn't do much, his predator killed basically my entire army, and the primaris marines and lieutenants just sat there.

intercesssors are at the end of the day 2 wound tac marines with a slightly improved boltgun. I'd not be expecting them to be incrediable all stars. they're basic troop units.

I am going to make a poll on how many more polls we need to have on Primaris marines and people's opinions on them

Negative for the fluff, but I understand the decision from a financial standpoint. For the shareholders, it's positive. For CSM players, whom are making Cult troops (Khorne Berserkers and Noise Marines) from 90's (or early 2000s) resin kits reworked from metal moulds with odd numbers of equipment per kit, or whose character options require extensive conversion work, it's annoying as Hell giving the Space Marine players bigger models just because their sausage fingers can't handle normal-sized model.

 ChazSexington wrote:
Negative for the fluff, but I understand the decision from a financial standpoint. For the shareholders, it's positive. For CSM players, whom are making Cult troops (Khorne Berserkers and Noise Marines) from 90's (or early 2000s) resin kits reworked from metal moulds with odd numbers of equipment per kit, or whose character options require extensive conversion work, it's annoying as Hell giving the Space Marine players bigger models just because their sausage fingers can't handle normal-sized model.

honest to god question, have you Read Dark Imperium? if you haven't read it and try to keep an open mind it gives some intreasting insight on the Primaris Marines, notably that they're not test tube babies grown in jars, but where aspiraants looking to join the various chapters that got recruited for the Primaris development program over history. (thus they where human to start with. I'm glad they kept that) some of these Marines are pretty old, with a few dating back from just after the Heresy. (... I'm guessing they where mostly kept in stasis) at the same time until the Indomatus crusade they didn't have any real combat experiance.

it's been 112 years since GS3, during which the Indomatus crusade has been fought pretty much through all that time, hence the Primaris Marines have gotten one hell of a work out.

soi yeah the novel IMHO addresses a lot of the concerns people had about the Marines.

BrianDavion wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Just a note that hasn't been discussed yet I don't think. The Actual Intercessors preform very poorly on the table, and don't fill a good role.

I haven't played with them, but I have played against them and really they didn't do much, his predator killed basically my entire army, and the primaris marines and lieutenants just sat there.

intercesssors are at the end of the day 2 wound tac marines with a slightly improved boltgun. I'd not be expecting them to be incrediable all stars. they're basic troop units.

I understand that, I didn't mean that I'd expect them to be amazing, but they don't have a purpose, SM already have a basic troop unit. I apologize that my OP came off as me suggesting they needed to be amazing units or anything.

I was going to vote "Positive" but I found out GW have actually called a unit of the Space Wolves' Primaris Marines the "Wolf Spear".

There is no justice...

I wish they had replaced Space Marines with Primaris entirely. Not in the fluff, but just the rules and models. Oh, and the Primaris should have used the existing armour marks.
I really like the idea of Marines that are closer in size and rules to how they are in the fluff, but I don't like the fluff of these new Primaris Marines so far.
Still going to get them though. Coincidentally I just came up with an awesome new colour scheme that I might want to use for my homebrew chapter. The Primaris form the perfect excuse to buy some new minis and try out my new colour scheme. If it turns out I don't like it enough to replace my old one, I can still use the newly painted Primaris as the start of a seperate Primaris-only chapter. That way I won't waste my painting work regardless of whether I am going to use it for my existing chapter or not.

Quick note: every instance of "you" in my post refers to the community at large not anyone specific posting here.

BrianDavion wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Negative for the fluff, but I understand the decision from a financial standpoint. For the shareholders, it's positive. For CSM players, whom are making Cult troops (Khorne Berserkers and Noise Marines) from 90's (or early 2000s) resin kits reworked from metal moulds with odd numbers of equipment per kit, or whose character options require extensive conversion work, it's annoying as Hell giving the Space Marine players bigger models just because their sausage fingers can't handle normal-sized model.

honest to god question, have you Read Dark Imperium? if you haven't read it and try to keep an open mind it gives some intreasting insight on the Primaris Marines, notably that they're not test tube babies grown in jars, but where aspiraants looking to join the various chapters that got recruited for the Primaris development program over history. (thus they where human to start with. I'm glad they kept that) some of these Marines are pretty old, with a few dating back from just after the Heresy. (... I'm guessing they where mostly kept in stasis) at the same time until the Indomatus crusade they didn't have any real combat experiance.

it's been 112 years since GS3, during which the Indomatus crusade has been fought pretty much through all that time, hence the Primaris Marines have gotten one hell of a work out.

soi yeah the novel IMHO addresses a lot of the concerns people had about the Marines.

Gene-seed tampering has never gone well in the history of IoM since the First Founding. Corax even left the Imperium because of it. You have Chapters refusing to fight alongside Chapters of the Cursed 21st Founding, which is rumoured to be due to gene-seed tampering. Look at Fabius Bile's creations to figure out where gene-seed alteration usually ends up. Technological improvement and innovation, especially on this scale, also fits poorly with the setting itself.

The manner in which it has been written is also poor - shoehorning in Cawl as the greatest geneticist ever (greater than the Emperor and Fabius Bile), whom seemingly has figured out how to get around the Canis Helix, and potentially a slew of other gene-seed issues. If Cawl had been a character present for longer than a few months, it'd be more palatable, but he's not.

Thirdly, mechanically I have no idea what role they fill. There's just no need in the game design for a 2W Space Marine, especially now we have 2W Terminators.