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Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





I figured I'd start the 8th edition Blood Angel Tactica. My firs army, and still one of my true loves.

Summary of what 8th Edition brought us:

THE GOOD:
-Assaulting from transports - return of rhino/razorback assault squads?

-Mephiston got unnerfed, his weapon is no long "AP3" but rather is -3 to armor saves, at S10 all the time, still being able to cast all 3 powers, and a special 5+ save against everything, he's a power to be reckoned with.

-Detachment(Force Org) changes: We can no bring detachments that allow us to field all fast attack if we want, a release from the pain of the long term BA players who hard 6 assault squads and no way to field them all anymore.

THE BAD:
-Transport costs went up all of the place. No free rhinos for assault squads, droppods are expensive, razorbacks as well.

-Morale changes: Enemy units aren't just going to fold and get swallowed up in combat, they will take extra damage, then they will fallback if they can so that they can shoot our poor assault marines.

-We have a new temporary codex, thus we are missing a lot of our uniqueness. We're still a lot better off then some chapters.

THE UGLY:
-We lost Feel no Pain from our priest, each unit has a 6+ save on wounds. Our priests instead give us +1S(thanks Pendroig), can heal a single model, or bring back alive a slain one on 4+. With Corbulo allowing us also to have a chance to generate extra attacks. Our toughness has diminished for sure.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/02 09:43:49


Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So i'm coming from 6th edition so if something I say sounds off that's why. I've actually played since 2nd but didn't start BA till 5th.

The psychic powers seem pretty good. Blood boil looks completey worthless. Even against T2 units (is there any?) i still would rather use smite and hope for the 10+ for D6 mortal wounds. The other 2 powers are pretty nice although I think i'd rather trade both of them for the ultramarines powers, but we'll make due.

Most of the Special characters seem real good. Nice and killy in CC. Mephiston seems amazing for his points. Lemartes is another good one. Dante looks sick as hell, but pricey, I think you get your money's worth with him. The Sanguinor being able to fallback on your turn, then charge again in the charge phase seems really nice.


One thing I think you forgot to mention in THE GOOD column is Assaulting from DS with an army that can run lots of JP's. I know you still need a 9+ on 2D6 to make the charge but just got to drop in enough units to hit a couple charges. Lemartes can help in this regard since he allows you to reroll charge ranges. Lemartes leading some JP Death Company seems like a good start.

Even though the DC have lost quite a bit over the last 2 editions, they are getting nice and cheap for the 2 extra attacks over assault marines base of 1(black rage and 2 base). Black Rage also gives the 6+ FnP so thats atleast something, and of course the ability to outfit them all into upgraded wargear makes them a very killy unit.

Sanguinary guard are real nice now as well. Another squad prime for Deep striking them in.

A big disappointment for me was the blood talons for dreadnaughts. They are identical as the fists, other than rolling a D6 on the irst.

My hope is 2 fold. Firstly, that this game is as balanced as possible, and my jump assault Blood Angels" get much more competeive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 07:26:17


 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





bobafett012 wrote:
One thing I think you forgot to mention in THE GOOD column is Assaulting from DS with an army that can run lots of JP's. I know you still need a 9+ on 2D6 to make the charge but just got to drop in enough units to hit a couple charges. Lemartes can help in this regard since he allows you to reroll charge ranges. Lemartes leading some JP Death Company seems like a good start.

Even though the DC have lost quite a bit over the last 2 editions, they are getting nice and cheap for the 2 extra attacks over assault marines base of 1(black rage and 2 base). Black Rage also gives the 6+ FnP so thats atleast something, and of course the ability to outfit them all into upgraded wargear makes them a very killy unit.


A big disappointment for me was the blood talons for dreadnaughts. They are identical as the fists, other than rolling a D6 on the irst.


Good points. DC might very well be the go to unit, especially since when I was looking at assault marines, I noticed that since we have to use generic marine datasheet for them, we no longer have meltaguns on our assault marines. Sigh!

On a better note, I was slightly disappointed with the Dreads, but so happy that they can no long be immobilized and they don't have diminishing stats like other vehicles. They fight to the bitter end, and they fight well. They move fast and hit hard. These are more so for killing enemy large single models then they are for killing infantry like they used to.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Coyote81 wrote:

THE UGLY:
-We lost Feel no Pain from our priest, each unit has a 6+ save on wounds. Our priests instead give us +1 A, can heal a single model, or bring back alive a slain one on 4+. With Corbulo allowing us also to have a chance to generate extra attacks. Our toughness has diminished for sure.


SP give +1 Str not +1 Atk, Sanguitor gives +1 Atk

si vis pacem, para bellum 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Coyote81 wrote:
Good points. DC might very well be the go to unit, especially since when I was looking at assault marines, I noticed that since we have to use generic marine datasheet for them, we no longer have meltaguns on our assault marines. Sigh!


Everything will change a bit once we actually get a codex. We'll get at least some of our flavor back because at the moment, all SM chapters are just very bland, no chapter tactics, special rules are mostly gone etc etc, but who knows when that will be.


 Coyote81 wrote:
On a better note, I was slightly disappointed with the Dreads, but so happy that they can no long be immobilized and they don't have diminishing stats like other vehicles. They fight to the bitter end, and they fight well. They move fast and hit hard. These are more so for killing enemy large single models then they are for killing infantry like they used to.


I was very happy myself, until I saw dreads can no longer be drop poded in. That might be a real killer for CC dreads even with their 8" move. At least BA have the stormraven to drop them in, but its gotten a lot more expensive too, just like land raiders did, so i don't know how viable that will be either.


   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




*Current meatspace coordinates redacted*

The Magna Grapples will help those CC Dreads too. Adding a couple of inches to the charge range is deceptively good IMO. Even better, Lemartes lets the DC Dread re-roll charge distances and TH rolls too (keyword DC FTW). Tasty.

He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all. 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





So I had my first battle with the new Blood Angels. It was a 1500pt game against Dark Eldar (I helped him optimize his list, so it was pretty rough)

My list:
Mephiston
Lemartes
10x Death Company with chainswords
Stormraven (MM,Heavy PC,Hurricane Bolters, missiles)
Furioso Dreadnought Frag cannon Heavy flamer magnagrapple
Whirlwind Castellan
Whirlwind Vengeance
3x Tac Squads with PC and sgt with combi-plasma

His list:
Succubus
Succubus
6x wytches Hyrda gauntlet Power Sword
5x wytches Hyrda gauntlet agonizer
5x wytches Hyrda gauntlet agonizer
5x wytches Hyrda gauntlet agonizer
5x wytches Hyrda gauntlet agonizer
Raider Dark Lance (DL) - 2x 5man wytches in here
Raider DL - 2x 5man wytches in here
Raider DL - 6man wytches and succubi in here
Ravager 3x DL
Ravager 3x DL
Ravager 3x DL
Void Raven Bomber - Void Lances, missiles, bomb


Mission Only War - modified

We did the random objectives after placing and got relic, we had a trailer of objectives across the middle of the map, so the DE player choose hammer and anvil to hamper me since I had a bunch of foot troops. he got luck and got the objective in his deployment zone as the relic.

I got to go first.


I put lemartes + 10x DC and the Dreadnought in the stormraven, flew forward quickly to force him to deal with them instead of my tactical squads placed in various terrain. With the whirldwind hiding in back.

His placement was spread around some since I saved my stormraven for last and he didn't know where it would go.


I'll just give a summary of events:
-Due to misjudging how many shots it took to finish a ravager, i failed to kill it first turn, and later paid for it when it rolled 2 5's for shootingwith DLs at my Stormraven.

-Dark lances are no joke good, and blaster pistols even better. Why do Eldar Lances become assault on vehicles while almost every marine weapon stay as a heavy even when on a vehicle? This make Ravagers amazing, higher mobility then Marine vehicle can achieve, no penalty for moving and shooting, super cheap, and yes a little weaker, but they all have 5+ inv saves. Him saving every 3rd shot was amazing, where as my expensive storm raven so some serious hits, and never got to roll an armor save all game.

-I think DE might have the best flyers as well, The voidbomber is very good and priced well.

-We had some serious melee clashes, and got to learn a lot about the new melee rules. having to back up a few times to fix mistakes made in turn order and charging/pile rules.

-My Dreadnought felt rather ineffective, but thats mostly because every unit champion and succubi had blaster pistols and just took him down very quickly, I think I should have left him in the Stormraven for another turn.

-Those Death Company with great, and especially tough with a nicely times Sanguinary Shield from mephiston the turn before the got charged by everything (Wish I hadn't lost 3 to the raider explosion)

-Lemartes kill the most out of anything that game, he was beast, making tons of save (made 2 6+ FNP, calling that last save FNP, for old times sake, when he only had 1 wound left.)

-Mephiston felt like his old self again, pre-AP3 sword days.


Lesson Learned - Invulnerable saves are the best thing to have in this edition. With cover adding to armor, and every army having access to -3/-4AP weapons, if they want a unit to die, they can make it die, the only thing stopping them are inv saves and FNP. I saw this as I struggled to kill his vehicles despite wounds them often, and him basically laughing at my stormraven. Then again when my DC have inv saves and thet absorbed his whole army's shooting and assault in one turn to kill 7 guys. Then again with Lemartes and Mephiston shrugging off many wounds and the enemy Wytches/Succubi saving 4 wounds at the end of 2 different combats in a row on 4+ invs.

From list building efforts, we find DE can easily make a brigade army in 1850. This si something Marines just can't pull off (While staying as a marine only army of course) So we are going to have to find a way to deal with spammy list the fill out brigades.

Last point: Command points, my opponent only used his for rerolls, but they were rather effective. I time one combat to interrupts his charging and used my DC to kill a succubi that hadn't attacked yet that round, I felt that was really really strong.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Coyote81 wrote:
So I had my first battle with the new Blood Angels. It was a 1500pt game against Dark Eldar (I helped him optimize his list, so it was pretty rough)

I put lemartes + 10x DC and the Dreadnought in the stormraven, flew forward quickly to force him to deal with them instead of my tactical squads placed in various terrain. With the whirldwind hiding in back.


Why not DS Lemartes with the DC since he has the re-roll to charge?

 Coyote81 wrote:
-My Dreadnought felt rather ineffective, but thats mostly because every unit champion and succubi had blaster pistols and just took him down very quickly, I think I should have left him in the Stormraven for another turn.


Yeah, I could tell Dreads were not going to be good sadly. The BA dreads are not killy enough to consider in my opinion. they are not going to kill enough bodies a turn to acomplish anything for their ridiculous points increase, on top of which, the Blood talons are a joke and the Furioso and DC dread are literally identical except the DC dread gets the gakky bonuses from Rage, so unless your going the frag cannon route, there really is never a reason to take furioso and that makes me sad.

 Coyote81 wrote:
-Those Death Company with great, and especially tough with a nicely times Sanguinary Shield from mephiston the turn before the got charged by everything (Wish I hadn't lost 3 to the raider explosion)


DC at the moment, while no wheres near as good as they were before still seem like the blood angels best go to unit since they are pretty cheap and are slightly better than assault squads, plus, since points came way down on power weapons, you can actually outfit them fairly well without having a 300+ point squad.

 Coyote81 wrote:
-Lemartes kill the most out of anything that game, he was beast, making tons of save (made 2 6+ FNP, calling that last save FNP, for old times sake, when he only had 1 wound left.)


When I first read the BA book, I thought Dante, Mephiston, and Lemartes all looked amazing. I am agonizing about which 2 to take in my list. Seems folly though, not to bring a psyker for Deny the witch, so I think Meph and Lemartes will be a real nice pair, but i still want to get some Dante in there, he is so good in CC now...

 Coyote81 wrote:
-Mephiston felt like his old self again, pre-AP3 sword days.


Awesome, glad to hear this!!


 Coyote81 wrote:
Lesson Learned - Invulnerable saves are the best thing to have in this edition. With cover adding to armor, and every army having access to -3/-4AP weapons, if they want a unit to die, they can make it die, the only thing stopping them are inv saves and FNP. I saw this as I struggled to kill his vehicles despite wounds them often, and him basically laughing at my stormraven. Then again when my DC have inv saves and thet absorbed his whole army's shooting and assault in one turn to kill 7 guys. Then again with Lemartes and Mephiston shrugging off many wounds and the enemy Wytches/Succubi saving 4 wounds at the end of 2 different combats in a row on 4+ invs.


Its funny that you mention this, I watched Frontline gamings live video they did yesterday, and they said invul saves were not as important, which I though was ridiculous since damn near everything modifies armor saves now.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think for me the obvious "I want to try this" choice right off the bat for the blood angels are the 10-30 Death Company + Lemartes + Terminator Ancient + Sang Priest dropping in on turn one.

Re-rolling charges, re-roll hits and wounds in the Fight phase, Ld10, Str 5, 3 or 4 (3 power weapon or 4 chainsword) attacks each on the charge seems about as scary as it gets.

And you can get 20 DC and the three characters + weapon upgrades (I imagine i'd throw in 4 or so power swords and maybe a couple power fists?) for under 800 points, which really isn't that bad for how deadly they are likely to be.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Lemartes, SP w/ JP, 60 DC = 2000 points...

Enjoy the slaughter

si vis pacem, para bellum 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Pedroig wrote:
Lemartes, SP w/ JP, 60 DC = 2000 points...

Enjoy the slaughter


2000 points? thats less than 1500 points, 1415 to be exact I believe. that leaves LOTS more room for even more!!
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




No, it's 1999... I forget, there are strange people who think DC should walk or something...

Vanguard Detachment

Lemartes (1) - 130pts
1 Lemartes

Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack (1) - 109pts
1 Sanguinary Priest: Inferno pistol,Thunder hammer

Death Company with Jump Packs (15) - 440pts
1 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Power fist
14 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Chainsword

Death Company with Jump Packs (15) - 440pts
1 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Power fist
14 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Chainsword

Death Company with Jump Packs (15) - 440pts
1 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Power fist
14 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Chainsword

Death Company with Jump Packs (15) - 440pts
1 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Power fist
14 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Chainsword

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/06 00:49:38


si vis pacem, para bellum 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




*Current meatspace coordinates redacted*

Something to keep in mind with the DS Death Company - it's really cheap for a lot of lists to bubble wrap the center of the table and push DS deployment way, way back from any targets that matter If the bubble wrap is even 9 inches away from the rest of the force (1 movement phase) that means you'll be deep striking a minimum of 18" away,from units that matter and a clever player will make sure you have no room to DS inside that bubble.

I'm not saying DS is bad or anything, it's great, it's just maybe a little more complicated in some cases (Tau and AM are the armies that pop to mind). If DS is a big part of how you want your army to play you want to have a plan for bubble wrap.

He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




DS? That's an option, I might hold back 1 unit of DC to DS and both HQ. Bring down the HQ's when you are in range to charge, let them rip, the last one is for either reinforcement if you've taken enough casualties, or to hit objective hopping bunnies...

This list isn't one of them "need this for that to happen" lists, it is a bunch them up, and furball the opposing forces, unit by unit...

si vis pacem, para bellum 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I have very different ideas for BA. I'm thinking about a list that's equal parts CC and shooting. I'm starting with a whirlwind battery with castellan launchers at 2K.
   
Made in my
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






At my desk

Considering BA have generally lost some of their CC focus on their general units in 8th, you can definitely afford to take shooting units and be effective because you're not giving up the assault ability granted by our old 'chapter tactic'. So I'd definitely say having some gunline units would be cool.

I've noticed that there is not a Power Fist listed on the Death Company page in the rules leak. Do they not have access to Power Fists anymore?

And also what do you make of Command Squads (Or representations of them using all the individuals) in the new edition? Sanguinary Guard were always the more competitive choice for close combat (and they continue that trend, by the look of them) but I think the Command Squad looks a little more viable now. The only issue is that they both benefit from having the Warlord nearby, so choosing which to use as an escort would be difficult.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/06 05:14:50


3000pts Blood Angels (4th Company) - 2000pts Skitarii (Voss Prime) - 2500pts Imperial Knights (Unnamed House) - 1000pts Imperial Guard (Household Retainers)

2000pts Free Peoples (Edlynd Fusiliers) - 2000pts Kharadron Overlords (Barak Zilfin) - 500pts Ironweld Arsenal (Edlynd Ironwork Federation) - 1000pts Duardin (Grongrok Powderheads)

Wargaming's no fun when you have a plan! 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Command squads can deep strike in meltaguns still. That's pretty hot.
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




bobafett012 wrote:


 Coyote81 wrote:
-My Dreadnought felt rather ineffective, but thats mostly because every unit champion and succubi had blaster pistols and just took him down very quickly, I think I should have left him in the Stormraven for another turn.


Yeah, I could tell Dreads were not going to be good sadly. The BA dreads are not killy enough to consider in my opinion. they are not going to kill enough bodies a turn to acomplish anything for their ridiculous points increase, on top of which, the Blood talons are a joke and the Furioso and DC dread are literally identical except the DC dread gets the gakky bonuses from Rage, so unless your going the frag cannon route, there really is never a reason to take furioso and that makes me sad.


I fought Tyranids twice this last weekend and found my Furioso with two fists quite effective. His rerolls to hit and durability kept me in those games. My Infantry just disappeared under waves of bugs. Those suckers are way too fast now.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Pedroig wrote:
No, it's 1999... I forget, there are strange people who think DC should walk or something...

Vanguard Detachment

Lemartes (1) - 130pts
1 Lemartes

Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack (1) - 109pts
1 Sanguinary Priest: Inferno pistol,Thunder hammer

Death Company with Jump Packs (15) - 440pts
1 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Power fist
14 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Chainsword

Death Company with Jump Packs (15) - 440pts
1 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Power fist
14 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Chainsword

Death Company with Jump Packs (15) - 440pts
1 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Power fist
14 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Chainsword

Death Company with Jump Packs (15) - 440pts
1 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Power fist
14 Death Company Marine: Hand flamer,Chainsword


I was talking about JP DC. I just wasn't calculating more than 100 pts of extra wargear, on each squad because i've always felt there just isn't any reason to run wargear on every single DC marine. In squads that size, at least 5 marines are nothing more than ablative wounds for the squad, so might as well just run a 5th squad instead. Power axes, swords, and mauls are so cheap now, at least a couple per squad i'd consider mandatory.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
bobafett012 wrote:


 Coyote81 wrote:
-My Dreadnought felt rather ineffective, but thats mostly because every unit champion and succubi had blaster pistols and just took him down very quickly, I think I should have left him in the Stormraven for another turn.


Yeah, I could tell Dreads were not going to be good sadly. The BA dreads are not killy enough to consider in my opinion. they are not going to kill enough bodies a turn to acomplish anything for their ridiculous points increase, on top of which, the Blood talons are a joke and the Furioso and DC dread are literally identical except the DC dread gets the gakky bonuses from Rage, so unless your going the frag cannon route, there really is never a reason to take furioso and that makes me sad.


I fought Tyranids twice this last weekend and found my Furioso with two fists quite effective. His rerolls to hit and durability kept me in those games. My Infantry just disappeared under waves of bugs. Those suckers are way too fast now.



Even still, Whats the reasoning for running a Furioso over the DC dread? He has same stats other than 1 less LD which is meaningless to vehicles, but he gets not only black rage but also insatiable special rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/06 05:45:00


 
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




My Furioso is painted and my DC Dread isn't.
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




Little Rock, Arkansas

Ran 2 games today, 2k points, with a firebase + deep strike assault type list:
The firebase: Dante, corbulo, and a company ancient sit in the middle of 6 tac squads, each with a heavy weapon (I did 2 grav cannon, 2 lascannon, 2 heavy bolter,) with the whole pile of marines shoulder to shoulder in a terrain piece for cover so that Dante's reroll to hit aura, and the ancient's ld+1 and "dying guys may get an immediate shot off" aura covers everyone. Dante also provides counterattack potential while corbulo makes everyone in his aura +1str and have bonus attacks on 6's to hit in melee, making the entire firebase very threatening in cc should someone attempt to get close. A vindicaire assassin rounds out the firebase with some character sniping.

The flank team: Lemartes, the Sanguinor, and a power fist jump priest accompany 3 sets of 5 jump DC, each with one power sword wielder, on some deep strike charge attempts, which Lemmy and the DC get to reroll. The three characters end up giving the DC rerolls to hit, +1a, +1s for being nearby, as well as being very threatening themselves.

The spec ops: The last of the list is the other 3 assassins, who show up at the same time as the DC, but, not benefitting from the character auras, are free to try to hit other targets of opportunity and attempt to cause mayhem. There are also 6 shotgun scouts that attempt to find a good LOS hiding spot midfield to see if they can create trouble.

I'll just go over the game against meched up marines. 3 lascannon razorbacks, a land raider godhammer, tac squads in the 'backs with a combi-melta each, one of which has a captain, and a contemptor dread, along with a deep strike force of a chaplain and 10 ASM. Lastly there was a full set of 3 tech marines and 3 thunderfire cannons in hiding.

He went first, roving on up and leaving the jumpers out for the turn. Shots go into the marine blob, knocking out a few boltguns. As a point of humor, the first guy to drop did a reaction shot from the banner, my first shot of the new edition, and successfully stuck a wound on the land raider with his bolter. (Lulz)

My turn, scouts and a DC charged a razorback on a far flank, two of the assassins charged the tfc's from one side while a DC and lemmy came at them from the other, sangy, the priest, and the third DC failed to reach anyone. Heavy weapons knocked the LR down to its middle health bracket, the tfc's took some pain, losing 2 techies that intervened and a cannon, and the squads on the razor flubbed, only getting a couple wounds on it.

He responded by emptying that razor as well as one nearby, flubbed his shots at the DC that failed to charge anyone last turn, and the dread, last razor, and LR continued to pressure the firebase, while the chappy and ASM jumped in to mess them up a bit. Only the asm made the charge, Dante intervened and the asm squad was barely alive. The tfc group got finished off while the captain joined his razorback in melee, KO'ing some DC.

The Callidus went over to start neural shredding the crippled land raider, while everyone else from the flank team joined in on the captain and razorback, knocking out both. The firebase pistol'd themselves out of combat and then got in on the chaplain, who managed to down the banner-man before dropping. (I should probably not charge good enemy characters with a bolter-equipped banner dude.)

He got the contemptor into the firebase marines, removing a squad, while the LR and lasbacks tried to whittle down the flank forces, but just knocked out a nameless joe here and there.

Everyone from the firebase hopped in on the dread, while the flank forces steamrolled over two packs of marines and the razorback on that side of the field, and began heading towards the last razor and LR. Two points of interest: a wounded Lemartes died to a razorback melee attack after being previously wounded by techmarine servo-arm, and Dante flubbed hurting the dread, and only lived thanks to the FNP-warlord trait. (6 hits, 0 wounds with s7 -_-). But we scratched some paint on it with marines.

Dread stomped Dante, dudes got out of the last razor and fired frantically, doing nothing of note, along with crippled raider and the razor, which fry a guy or two. Corbulo and the last few marines scratch the dread some more while losing a few more dudes.

The flank forces reach the pair of vehicles and 5 man marine squad, which all evaporate under the combined shots and charges of sangy, fist-priest, remnants of 3 dc squads, scouts, and 3 assassins. Dread is getting hurt and is missing in combat.

Dread continues to degrade, and is the last model left. Does knock the firebase crew down to 3 heavy weapons and corbulo, but on my following turn, more than half of the flank forces reach him, and Sangy slays him personally, clearing the table. Of note vindicaire was shooting the whole time, but virtually never had an infantry target available that was worth shooting at. He ended up stripping the raider of a few wounds through the game.


So, things of note:
-Characters with cool auras all encouraging several squads at once seem pretty good.
-Don't charge with bad characters that have cool auras.
-It seems very easy to have a squad kill another allied squad out of striking range. Character badasses like sangy and assassins are especially guilty of this.
-msu heavy weapon tac squads seem to work nice, but the downside of msu is that you never get to go first. :(
-not having random or forced reserve arrival is awesome.
-while corby is damn cool in the middle of a bunch of dudes, I don't think he's worth it in this list. He basically just brought back a couple bolter marines and then fought in melee the rest of the time. May replace him for a bit more firepower like a dev squad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/06 06:09:51


20000+ points
Tournament reports:
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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:

I've noticed that there is not a Power Fist listed on the Death Company page in the rules leak. Do they not have access to Power Fists anymore?


Very first Wargear option: Any model may replace his bolt pistol with a boltgun, hand flamer, inferno pistol, plasma pistol, power, axe, fist, maul, or sword. Any model may replace chainsword with power axe, fist, maul, or sword. No sure why stas aren't listed on Datasheet. Oversight typo 1st edition release error would be my guess.

And I'm not saying my All DC is best to play, but it is fluffy and fun as hell...

si vis pacem, para bellum 
   
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Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





So after doing some more scanning on the generic space marine units, I think Vanguard vets are a better by then DC. I can get a VV with jumppack and storm shield for 23pts. that is 3 attacks every round with a 3++ and the champ can take a relic blade. DC with jumppacks cost 20, and I found that 6+ FNP is rather worthless, think i rolled it once all game, and only on Lemartes. With all the armor modifiers out there, inv saves seem to be a must and VV with storm shields are "cheap as chips". Sorry it's a saying stuck in my head lately from various British battle reports.

So for 255pts you get 10x VV with Stormshields, 9x Chainswords and 1x Relicblade, 1x Melta Bomb 10x Jumpppacks. Follow them around with a priest for +1S and reviving 3++ save models is really good imo. Maybe lead by the Sanguinor for +1A


Random other thought:
-The only other way to reduce enemy shooting effectiveness (other then taking inv saves) is to make them no hit so well. how do we do this? Well Stormravens come with an inherit -1 to hit them. But if we look to our allies, there are ways to further reduce shooting. If we bring either a Dark Angel Librarian or a Space Wolf rune Priest, then we gain access to psychic powers that give enemy units -1 to hit. we could even bring both.

Example Scenario: fly 2x stormraven with VVs (no packs) 1 with a priest with a JP and the other Sanguinor, After we move the stormravens into the appropiate position, we deepstrike in our librarian/runepriest within range to give negative modifiers to the units most likely to kill the storm ravens. Noone can target the librarians because the stormraven is the closer unit. No the enemy units most likely to kill the storm ravens are at -2 maybe even -3 to hit. Even worse if they need to move.



Here is a list with that idea in mind:
2000pts
Vanguard Detachment
HQ Sanguinor
Elite Vangaurd Vets x10- 9x CS 1x RB
Elite Vangaurd Vets x10- 9x CS 1x RB
Elite Evesor Assassin
Flyer Stormraven- TAC, TML, 2x HUR, 2x SSM
Flyer Stormraven- TAC, TML, 2x HUR, 2x SSM

Spearhead Detachment
HQ Rune Priest JP Runic Sword
HQ DA Librarian JP Force Sword
Heavy Devastatorsx5- 4x Las, Cherub
Heavy Devastatorsx5- 4x Las, Cherub
Heavy Whirlwind- Castellan Launcher


This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/06 16:35:37


Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






Sanguinary guard seem like one of the best units in any SM rules list this edition. 2 wounds, good armor save and GREAT wargear at a fairly low cost make me feel like they're one of the go to units in our army.

Baal Predators seem hot too as fire support.

Are psykers THAT important right now? Mephiston seems really good, but I don't really want to take him over some of the other HQs. My personal choice is The Sanguinor (who's my favorite HQ in the book), Lemartes, and a Sanguinary Priest. Taking 2 detatchments isn't hard, so a 3rd or 4th HQ slot is very available.

5,000
:cficon: 1,500 
   
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Dakka Veteran




 th3maninblak wrote:
Sanguinary guard seem like one of the best units in any SM rules list this edition. 2 wounds, good armor save and GREAT wargear at a fairly low cost make me feel like they're one of the go to units in our army.

Baal Predators seem hot too as fire support.

Are psykers THAT important right now? Mephiston seems really good, but I don't really want to take him over some of the other HQs. My personal choice is The Sanguinor (who's my favorite HQ in the book), Lemartes, and a Sanguinary Priest. Taking 2 detatchments isn't hard, so a 3rd or 4th HQ slot is very available.


Baal Predators are overcosted sadly. You're better running Razorbacks.
Twin AC Razor is 100pts, Twin AC Baal is 142 points - for those extra 42 points you just get an extra wound and the not very good overcharged engines (whilst also loosing transport capacity). You can sink more points into the Baal of course with sponsons, but then you're making it 162 points...
You can debate Twin HF Razors are cheaper and better than Flamestorm Baals too.

Anyhoo, as Martel mentioned, I think Twin HF Razors have good synergy with BA to push up and support BA jump units. Playing first game of 8th ed at 750pts to test things out and will trying HF Razors

Sang Priest w/ JP, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword
5x Sang Guard w/ 5x Plasma Pistols, 4x Swords, 1x Fist
5x Tacs w/ Combi-Melta, Power Sword, Meltagun
5x Tacs w/ Combi-Melta, Power Sword, Meltagun
Razorback w/ Twin HF, Storm Bolter
Razorback w/ Twin HF, Storm Bolter
   
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






Both of my razors are las/plas. Wondering how those will work out given the new rules. Rapid fire 2/4 still seems strong, and lascannons shore up our weakness vs high wound targets.

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:cficon: 1,500 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





 th3maninblak wrote:
Both of my razors are las/plas. Wondering how those will work out given the new rules. Rapid fire 2/4 still seems strong, and lascannons shore up our weakness vs high wound targets.


Just beware using overcharge on the twin plasmagun, it does indeed oneshot the razorback.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I keep seeing a lot of people in various places referring to a 6+ FNP on Blood Angels. They don't have that. That's only on Death Company.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
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Dakka Veteran




 th3maninblak wrote:
Both of my razors are las/plas. Wondering how those will work out given the new rules. Rapid fire 2/4 still seems strong, and lascannons shore up our weakness vs high wound targets.


I think the Twin Las, Twin AC and Twin HF Razors are probably the best - for backfield, midfield and opponent deployment zone respectively.
The Twin HB is 'ok' but I'd still probably want to spend a bit more for the Twin AC

The Las/Plas Razor is in a funny place. You'll be driving the Razor up to get into 12/24" range for the Twin Plasma, meaning the Lascannon will be at -1 to hit mostly. It's not bad, but I'd still probably pick one of the other choices.

Stormbolters at 2pts seem like a bit of a no brainer upgrade for Razors now
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





Bartali wrote:
 th3maninblak wrote:
Both of my razors are las/plas. Wondering how those will work out given the new rules. Rapid fire 2/4 still seems strong, and lascannons shore up our weakness vs high wound targets.


I think the Twin Las, Twin AC and Twin HF Razors are probably the best - for backfield, midfield and opponent deployment zone respectively.
The Twin HB is 'ok' but I'd still probably want to spend a bit more for the Twin AC

The Las/Plas Razor is in a funny place. You'll be driving the Razor up to get into 12/24" range for the Twin Plasma, meaning the Lascannon will be at -1 to hit mostly. It's not bad, but I'd still probably pick one of the other choices.

Stormbolters at 2pts seem like a bit of a no brainer upgrade for Razors now


I actually found my Las/TWplas Razorback to be great for protecting my backfield. I was laying down Lascannon shots down field at the enemy riptide while double tapping (and crossing my fingers as I overcharged) at Crisis suits on my flanks.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
 
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