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So, I may be acquiring a pair of Imperial Knights this weekend, to complement my Astra Militarum and various Space Marine armies.
Not even fielded one before, so, with the new 8th rules, what would be the ideal weaponry for them?

Note that, whilst I'm only getting two right now, I may pick up a third later, and that the pair are the standard Errant/Paladin Knights. However, I could easily get my hands on the Warden upgrade sprue if Paladin/Errant Knights aren't very good.

So, what to do with Knights?

Personally, I'd get the upgrade sprue just for the carapace weapons. With such an expensive/survivable platform to mount them on, it seems a shame not to use them.

That said, I did a bit of mathhammer on the weapons:



The Avenger is best all-round, IMO. The RFBC has the range and is strong against T7, but that's a narrow niche. The Inferno cannon is good against heavy vehicles, and is non-trivially cheaper than the other two.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So, I may be acquiring a pair of Imperial Knights this weekend, to complement my Astra Militarum and various Space Marine armies.
Not even fielded one before, so, with the new 8th rules, what would be the ideal weaponry for them?

Note that, whilst I'm only getting two right now, I may pick up a third later, and that the pair are the standard Errant/Paladin Knights. However, I could easily get my hands on the Warden upgrade sprue if Paladin/Errant Knights aren't very good.

So, what to do with Knights?

Crusader!

Skip the hull Meltagun. Opt for the missiles on top. Expensive, but deadly.

Is the sword worth getting, or double avenger the way to roll?

 labmouse42 wrote:
Is the sword worth getting, or double avenger the way to roll?

I think the guns just do it better. The Feet will help thin the expected hordes if need be. That you can fall back and shoot seems to make the CCWs not that useful.

Also, no double Avenger for Loyalists. And honestly, that is really pricey anyhow. I think having a Thermal is nice to popping armor - though that may be list dependent.

So, are the melee weapons always invalid? Is Crusader the only Knight worth taking?

I think melee's worth it. It's by some margin the best way of killing tanks/MCs knights have.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So, are the melee weapons always invalid? Is Crusader the only Knight worth taking?

It's also the most expensive knight. If you look at the points, a Crusader with RFBC and Avenger is almost 30 points more than a Knight Warden with a Stormspear missile pod, and can still swing a sword in melee should you find yourself against something tough.

May I jump in

About to get either Paladin or Errant with a carapace weapon to go with my Black Templars army.

Is the Knight able to carry most of my heavy hitting needs? Considering I have a Twin Las Predator and some heavies in my squads and transport, which load out would give me the most synergy?

Edit: To fit a 2K list.

If you don't mind my asking, where can one easily get a Warden upgrade sprue? The only ones I've found have been on E-bay for 35-45 bucks and GW won't sell the sprue separately.

 Gendo wrote:
May I jump in

About to get either Paladin or Errant with a carapace weapon to go with my Black Templars army.

Is the Knight able to carry most of my heavy hitting needs? Considering I have a Twin Las Predator and some heavies in my squads and transport, which load out would give me the most synergy?

Edit: To fit a 2K list.

The Avenger and Thermal can synergise pretty well for range reasons, you can let loose a very deadly arsenal that can threaten anything within firing range. I find that when bringing the battle-cannon, your avenger will often want to be hanging back and sniping targets, so the Ironstorm missiles aren't bad. If you prefer a melee option then the Avenger pairs nicely with your gauntlet/reaper, melee being great at popping vehicles, you don't really need to use either cannon options anyway. Ignore the carapace melta-gun, too expensive to justify now a-days.

It depends on what your list is lacking, though overall, equipment that spits a lot of dice rolls is a good use of the Knight's 3+ to hit.

MrPyro wrote:

 Gendo wrote:
May I jump in

About to get either Paladin or Errant with a carapace weapon to go with my Black Templars army.

Is the Knight able to carry most of my heavy hitting needs? Considering I have a Twin Las Predator and some heavies in my squads and transport, which load out would give me the most synergy?

Edit: To fit a 2K list.

The Avenger and Thermal can synergise pretty well for range reasons, you can let loose a very deadly arsenal that can threaten anything within firing range. I find that when bringing the battle-cannon, your avenger will often want to be hanging back and sniping targets, so the Ironstorm missiles aren't bad. If you prefer a melee option then the Avenger pairs nicely with your gauntlet/reaper, melee being great at popping vehicles, you don't really need to use either cannon options anyway. Ignore the carapace melta-gun, too expensive to justify now a-days.

It depends on what your list is lacking, though overall, equipment that spits a lot of dice rolls is a good use of the Knight's 3+ to hit.

Thought about a Knight Crusader initially as a sitback fire platform but the mobility of the Knight paired with Chainsword and Feet seems pretty good!
The Avenger looks like hurt across the board, so probably will build a Warden, black and gold with white shoulder pads obviously

I too find it's at it's best when it's drawing as much attention to it as possible, even better since it can no longer be threatened with a tarpit, a melee knight can smash everything it touches and in the event it goes down, may end up taking it's attackers with it when it explodes.

The Warden is by far the most versatile option. so much pain on so many levels!

The Crusader is still a great fire platform but one could argue you could get the same results cheaper elsewhere.

Two Crusaders with RBCs and 2 Paladins is a lot of firepower. Get two gatling guns, 8d6 battlecannon shots, plus stubbers i guess. Use your feet to step on Hordes and the big guns to blow away bigger things.

Has anyone looked at the FW knights yet? we havent got the imperial ones yet but the Chaos ones should give a good idea

MarkyMark wrote:
Has anyone looked at the FW knights yet? we havent got the imperial ones yet but the Chaos ones should give a good idea

yes and they should be identical. Not really sure what to make of them so far. I feel they were toned down a bit from the past versions.

Can someone explain to me how to best use these Imperial Knights. The models are so cool however very expensive and I hard to know if it is worth dropping money on them.

How do you build a balanced list around these things? Who do they work well with or do you just run 5 and call it a day?

MrPyro wrote:
I too find it's at it's best when it's drawing as much attention to it as possible, even better since it can no longer be threatened with a tarpit, a melee knight can smash everything it touches and in the event it goes down, may end up taking it's attackers with it when it explodes.

The Warden is by far the most versatile option. so much pain on so many levels!

The Crusader is still a great fire platform but one could argue you could get the same results cheaper elsewhere.

Already changed my mind haha, didn't know damage affects only one model.

As i have some Assault Cannons and mostly CC Crusaders and need taking care of big stuff I think i'll go with the Thermal Cannon which has the added flexibility of becoming HeavyD6 when targeting 5+ models with extra Damage up close.

Still not sure about the Pod, going double on the heavy damage or an Ironstorm to soften up targets for my CC Crusaders even behind cover.

For a mid field Shoot+Charge seems awesome!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gibs55 wrote:
Can someone explain to me how to best use these Imperial Knights. The models are so cool however very expensive and I hard to know if it is worth dropping money on them.

How do you build a balanced list around these things? Who do they work well with or do you just run 5 and call it a day?

How many points do you play? A single Knight could cost you 600pts.

 Gendo wrote:

MrPyro wrote:
I too find it's at it's best when it's drawing as much attention to it as possible, even better since it can no longer be threatened with a tarpit, a melee knight can smash everything it touches and in the event it goes down, may end up taking it's attackers with it when it explodes.

The Warden is by far the most versatile option. so much pain on so many levels!

The Crusader is still a great fire platform but one could argue you could get the same results cheaper elsewhere.

Already changed my mind haha, didn't know damage affects only one model.

As i have some Assault Cannons and mostly CC Crusaders and need taking care of big stuff I think i'll go with the Thermal Cannon which has the added flexibility of becoming HeavyD6 when targeting 5+ models with extra Damage up close.

Still not sure about the Pod, going double on the heavy damage or an Ironstorm to soften up targets for my CC Crusaders even behind cover.

For a mid field Shoot+Charge seems awesome!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gibs55 wrote:
Can someone explain to me how to best use these Imperial Knights. The models are so cool however very expensive and I hard to know if it is worth dropping money on them.

How do you build a balanced list around these things? Who do they work well with or do you just run 5 and call it a day?

How many points do you play? A single Knight could cost you 600pts.

I am in the process of starting a new army and limited experience with 40k (play mainly AOS/Fantasy). I purchased Imperium 1 and 2, now giving myself another week to learn and think before dropping a decent amount of money on an army. To answer your question I will be playing up to 2k points or whatever the competitive scene decides on I guess.

For 2000pt, you can run 4 decent Knights and I think it would be pretty frightening for those not prepared. Though with everything able to hurt everything, it wouldn't be unstoppable like it might have been before.

I'd rather start with deciding which Army you want to play and then how to fit a Knight in it.

I think for the points it's not an expensive model, two LRC tanks cost about the same points/money wise.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
For 2000pt, you can run 4 decent Knights and I think it would be pretty frightening for those not prepared. Though with everything able to hurt everything, it wouldn't be unstoppable like it might have been before.

I haven't played the last few editions, but I recall reading that an all knight army was considered rather unfun for your opponent previously. Which I was always a little sad about because I've got a bit of a thing for big illogical battlemech style scifi. Has 8th edition effectively eliminated that problem, so that I won't get dirty looks if I play knights?

I'd kind of like to have a knight heavy force with a militarum tempestus support detachment. Already got the starter set for scions shipping to me right now. But I was worried it'd be considered unfair and was thinking maybe a baneblade would be more appropriate.

 argonak wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
For 2000pt, you can run 4 decent Knights and I think it would be pretty frightening for those not prepared. Though with everything able to hurt everything, it wouldn't be unstoppable like it might have been before.

I haven't played the last few editions, but I recall reading that an all knight army was considered rather unfun for your opponent previously. Which I was always a little sad about because I've got a bit of a thing for big illogical battlemech style scifi. Has 8th edition effectively eliminated that problem, so that I won't get dirty looks if I play knights?

I'd kind of like to have a knight heavy force with a militarum tempestus support detachment. Already got the starter set for scions shipping to me right now. But I was worried it'd be considered unfair and was thinking maybe a baneblade would be more appropriate.

I think it has. No army is defenseless against them anymore. They also got toned down overall, too. Price going up means only 4 at 2000pt, not 5, too. If anyone complains, remind them that even a lasgun can hurt a Knight!

And run what you want. Nothing is "unfair" as 8th is hot off the presses and the first edition that was heavily balanced, from what I can tell (external playtesting, outside of the UK, etc). Give it a go with the MT and a Knight. I doubt anyone will complain.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
For 2000pt, you can run 4 decent Knights and I think it would be pretty frightening for those not prepared. Though with everything able to hurt everything, it wouldn't be unstoppable like it might have been before.

You'll goomba stomp anyone not rocking tournament ready lists.

And subsequently find yourself with few people willing to play you

How about this as a trio of Knights:

Knight Paladin, Reaper Chainsword, Ironstorm Missiles
Knight Errant, Thunderstrike Gauntlet
Knight Crusader with Gatling Cannon and Thermal Cannon

That leaves one Knight as a close-up assault one, one as versatile firepower, and one as longer ranged cover - works?

stratigo wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
For 2000pt, you can run 4 decent Knights and I think it would be pretty frightening for those not prepared. Though with everything able to hurt everything, it wouldn't be unstoppable like it might have been before.

You'll goomba stomp anyone not rocking tournament ready lists.

And subsequently find yourself with few people willing to play you

I find that a highly dubious statement, since 8th only just officially released and appears to be a move towards balance. Given the preponderance of anti-tank that can mostly negate this things save and force it into a 5++, it isn't nearly so unstoppable as it was in prior editions.

There are a load of answers that even a casual list will run, especially with the shift in Heavy weapons to the -1 penalty. I see so many Lascannon Dev Squads now, its crazy.

Personally, I think a Knight army will always need some ground support for objective capping, mop-up and such. Guard are perfect for the job, IMO; just fluff them as your knight household's family retainers.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
There are a load of answers that even a casual list will run, especially with the shift in Heavy weapons to the -1 penalty. I see so many Lascannon Dev Squads now, its crazy.

it takes ~23 BS3+ lascannon shots to take out a knight. Whether you consider that a little or a lot is up to you

One thing we haven't talked a lot about is carapace weapons. I think the Stormspear is pretty much an auto-take on every knight. Sure, it's the most expensive of the three options, but for comparison it's three krak missiles at a cost less than an IG heavy weapons team. Running the numbers, it's better vs. hordes than the ironstorm, and knocks more wounds of flyers than the icarus autocannon!

momerathe wrote:
Personally, I think a Knight army will always need some ground support for objective capping, mop-up and such. Guard are perfect for the job, IMO; just fluff them as your knight household's family retainers.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
There are a load of answers that even a casual list will run, especially with the shift in Heavy weapons to the -1 penalty. I see so many Lascannon Dev Squads now, its crazy.

it takes ~23 BS3+ lascannon shots to take out a knight. Whether you consider that a little or a lot is up to you

One thing we haven't talked a lot about is carapace weapons. I think the Stormspear is pretty much an auto-take on every knight. Sure, it's the most expensive of the three options, but for comparison it's three krak missiles at a cost less than an IG heavy weapons team. Running the numbers, it's better vs. hordes than the ironstorm, and knocks more wounds of flyers than the icarus autocannon!

Knights can capture objectives... provided there is nothing left alive to contest it.

And Guard? No, sir. Skitarii are the most fluffy!

And 23 BS3+ Lascannons aren't hard to find for Guard. Other armies have many other tools, as well. And they start to diminish at half wounds too, so once you make a deep enough dent, they go downhill.

Also, I am not so sure about the Stormspear. The Ironstorm seems more and more like the obvious choice. Shooting out of LoS, decent damage and only 37% of the cost of the Stormspear. Seems like a strong option if you just need more firepower to help thin hordes. Icarus seems less useful now that hitting flyers isn't near impossible anymore.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
For 2000pt, you can run 4 decent Knights and I think it would be pretty frightening for those not prepared. Though with everything able to hurt everything, it wouldn't be unstoppable like it might have been before.

That's a misconception. Sure a lasgun could wound a Knight. But wounding and killing are not the same thing. A knight has 24 wounds. Lasguns aren't going to be killing knights anytime soon. Lasguns and other similar common troop weapons are useless against knights because they have no save modifier, do only one wound, and in every case outside of Tau pulse rifles, need 6's to wound.

Just looking at the number of wounds and the knight's saves:

24 Wounds with a +3 save means you'll need to do about 72 wounds to a knight to kill it. 72.

So yeah in short unless we're playing for money (aka in a Tournament) I'm not playing your 4 knight army.

Yeah I agree that it looks as if knights will be seriously difficult to get rid of. It doesn't help that they have pretty serious firepower and will usually have first turn.

Things like lascannon predators will get shot up before they can do much. Tau commanders and similar drop assault guys might be able to do a bit of damage - but will almost certainly die when the knight takes revenge.

In terms of building a knight list I think it makes sense to run 3 of them at 2k. That gives you 3 cps and leaves something like 650 points for another detachment of some kind.

That detachment needs to do the things the knights aren't good at. Hold objectives and score maelstrom - and get the relic. I'm not too sure what the best way to do this is yet or which kind of detachment you'd be best with. You want to avoid taking so many units that you lose first turn sometimes, so transports are probably a good option.

A sisters of battle fast attach detachment, maybe with Celestine as your warlord, could be good. Seraphim are great for maelstrom and you get some efficient units to hold your own deployment zone objectives too.