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Not sure is there any interest in this but there's been rather crazy half a week in Finland. After last elections there was 3 parties in the goverment. One economically right-wing pro free market party, another whose main reason for life is protecting rural areas and one nationalistic group(Perussuomalaiset, henceforth I refer them by initials PS) group that's been riding on anti-EU and anti-immigration a lot. Along with driving for small income folk(at least so they claim) which is origins of the party from '90's. Finland's version of Le Pen though not quite radical...

...Well until Saturday. Previous leader that had been leading them to decades had this year announced he steps down from leadership of the party. On saturday they voted for new leader and out of 2 main candinates picked up the extreme anti-EU, anti-immigration guy that's been convicted of incitation against race/group of people(specifically muslims). Also other top-spots of party were also replaced with similar hard-liners including yet another with conviction from court on similar case. Also seems they were less than respectful of old guard and there's(not verified) reports of nazi salutations having been thrown around.

This triggered crisis in goverment with 2 other parties on sunday declaring they cannot continue with the 3rd party citing too different values. This causes immediate threat of new elections as most likely new goverment(replacing 3rd party with smaller pro-swedish people party and christian party) would not be sure deal either and give mere 101 seats out of 200(though 1 doesn't vote). Very unstable to say the least. Neither greens nor any of the 2 left's would likely be willing to work with the other 2 and were also saying there needs to be elections(particularly greens since polls shows them having about doubled their popularity since last elections).

However in particular the pro-rural areas is unlikely to want elections now as THEIR popularity in gallups has tanked.

However goverment was going to fall anyway and on tuesday prime minister headed(flying airplane himself) to meet president with resignation letter of goverment in his pockets.

HOWEVER the split in PS had managed to piss off whole bunch and in super-secret process had after saturday been talking about splitting off from PS so while prime minister was flying they marched into PS meeting handing out resignation letters of their own resulting in 20(out of 38 or so) seats from Finland's 200 seat parliament including all the previous ministers split off into their own(named New Alternative) declaring they would be willing to continue on the goverment with previous program.

This gave new goverment 106 seats which is still narrow but workable so prime minister did U-turn so goverment will continue for now.

For added fun the PS support society/union is actually in control of the leavers so PS might effectively end up PAYING for the new group! Rather ironic. But needed as the previous leader of PS had just year or two ago worked up law that when somebody leaves party in parliament he or she doesn't take support money for party with him(each party gets money based on seats they got in elections) so now the new group(not formal party yet btw) gets zero income from there.

Interesting to see how this goes. Next elections should show just how much anti-immigration/anti-EU really has in Finland as the PS will be heading more and more toward that. And PS could very well become like the swedish party with whom no other party wants to work so settled to eternal opposition unless they get 50%+ votes or change style again.

So Finland watched the British general election and said "Hold my beer...."

Dakka is a very Anglo centric forum and I for one would be fascinated if you kept us up to date with the goings on in Finland. If anything it can only add to our discussions of what the hell is going on in the world right now.

 Henry wrote:
So Finland watched the British general election and said "Hold my beer...."

Dakka is a very Anglo centric forum and I for one would be fascinated if you kept us up to date with the goings on in Finland. If anything it can only add to our discussions of what the hell is going on in the world right now.

Well we have nothing as dramatic as in Europe/America Too small country. Usually I just ignore finnish politics but this had enough twists and turns and since it involved struggling of party(PS) I have disliked like since 2010 or so this had been fun for me. Though was less fun before the split as the new leader is SOOOOOOO far away from my values that it's not funny anymore. I disagreed with lots of things with previous leader but at least he had some integrity(fairly common feeling actually even from his political opponents).

But generally not much anything of interest to report. Frankly not sure this is newsworthy either as outside Finland very little impact. Biggest effect is going to be domestic politics if new PS keeps steady seat count as if there's basically 4-6 significant parties getting safe majority without goverment becoming too much of a mix-match like was it in 2011 elections where goverment was formed by SIX parties. That's like no clear program to go forward with so many different objectives. (The economic right AND left group combination was particularly funny!)

tneva82 wrote:

 Henry wrote:
So Finland watched the British general election and said "Hold my beer...."

Dakka is a very Anglo centric forum and I for one would be fascinated if you kept us up to date with the goings on in Finland. If anything it can only add to our discussions of what the hell is going on in the world right now.

Well we have nothing as dramatic as in Europe/America Too small country. Usually I just ignore finnish politics but this had enough twists and turns and since it involved struggling of party(PS) I have disliked like since 2010 or so this had been fun for me. Though was less fun before the split as the new leader is SOOOOOOO far away from my values that it's not funny anymore. I disagreed with lots of things with previous leader but at least he had some integrity(fairly common feeling actually even from his political opponents).

But generally not much anything of interest to report. Frankly not sure this is newsworthy either as outside Finland very little impact. Biggest effect is going to be domestic politics if new PS keeps steady seat count as if there's basically 4-6 significant parties getting safe majority without goverment becoming too much of a mix-match like was it in 2011 elections where goverment was formed by SIX parties. That's like no clear program to go forward with so many different objectives. (The economic right AND left group combination was particularly funny!)

The real concern is if the political turmoil will affect Amorphis's ability to continue to tour and provide some of the world's best music

Very interesting write-up, thanks

You've got a way to go before you top our proud British idiocy, but keep it up. Try putting your entire economic future on the line with a 2 year countdown, then say you wont hold an election, then do, then form a less stable government than before with the most extreme nutters, whilst cheerfully ignoring all the increasingly dire economic indicators because proudness.

Having a PM that flies himself is pretty cool too

 Darkjim wrote:
Very interesting write-up, thanks

You've got a way to go before you top our proud British idiocy, but keep it up. Try putting your entire economic future on the line with a 2 year countdown, then say you wont hold an election, then do, then form a less stable government than before with the most extreme nutters, whilst cheerfully ignoring all the increasingly dire economic indicators because proudness.

Hey the PS's new leaders are trying to get Finland's own Brexit as it is! They are calling it Fixit. So it's not like Finns aren't trying to equal you (well some anyway)

Having a PM that flies himself is pretty cool too

That was actually interesting tidbit. Didn't know that. If this would become movie that could have made for nice little scene.

But beats the Dutch's royal who has hobby of being assistant pilot in commercial air company. Some people do it for work, others for a hobby...

Just another symptoms in the worldwide growth of .... right wing populuism? Nationalism? Reactionaries? I have no idea what to call it really.

 Easy E wrote:
Just another symptoms in the worldwide growth of .... right wing populuism? Nationalism? Reactionaries? I have no idea what to call it really.

Yeah well this party has been having big influence this decade. Started in around 2011 when they got biggest result so far and created "big 4". That time they didn't get into goverment but talks got into very difficult and resulted in the 6 party goverment I referred earlier(6-pack as it was called) as those parties were needed for safe margin(one group later left which cut margin lot less stable).

Then on 2015 they got 3rd best votes(but 2nd most seats) and it was going to be hard to have goverment WITHOUT them. Pro-rurals were given due to...well being the biggest. Left-wings and right wings don't get well all that well(no surprise) especially after the 6-pack which left lots of bad blood with them. It was basically the rural+PS+right wing or rural+PS+left wings.

PS in goverment is also 100% dead lock against greens(which PS hates big time) and swedish party(no surprise...). So PS+left wings wouldn't really work.

Rural+lefties+green+swedish would be about only non-PS goverment that really was feasible. Lefties+right don't really work especially after bad blood of 6-pack and without lefties majority would be tough and very diluted govemrnet which can lead to trouble as 6-pack showed.

This week could at least temporarily actually cut off those nationalists out of goverment if they end up eating each others votes. Especially as their gallup results have been pummeling(halving more or less) due to goverment policies not being popular with their fan group while PS has been actually very loyal. I referred already about integrity of the former leader but he has actually impressed me with his integrity. I would have hard time agreeing with anything but if we make agreement I could be pretty damn sure he won't break the word even if it means his party popularity tanking up.

Next elections are going to be interesting regarding those two parties. One is now "BURN EU!" and one is "We are not fan of EU but for now it's neccessity but it needs to change it style" so to speak. Overall people still in Finland are more in "stay" than "leave" so I suspect(and hope) the New Alternative(literal translation of the new groups temporary name. It was such a quick move they had no time to think up a better name!) will actually get significant vote amount UNLESS their role in the goverment backfires.

BTW above probably shows why I find it weird how in UK//USA it's basically "this party or that" In Finland 2 party goverment is pretty much minimum. 3-4 more common. One party forming up govemrent alone is pretty much impossible.§§

 Henry wrote:
So Finland watched the British general election and said "Hold my beer...."

Dakka is a very Anglo centric forum and I for one would be fascinated if you kept us up to date with the goings on in Finland. If anything it can only add to our discussions of what the hell is going on in the world right now.

Yeah.. This has got very little Anglo news coverage too..

We've got a lot of other things to think about, and if we want to look at some foreign political news, La Republique En Marche is our nearest neighbour.

All that being said, I believe everything that happens in all the EU nations is important to all of us, even after Brexit.

tneva82 wrote:
BTW above probably shows why I find it weird how in UK//USA it's basically "this party or that" In Finland 2 party goverment is pretty much minimum. 3-4 more common. One party forming up government alone is pretty much impossible.§§

I just had a look and the difference comes down to how your government is eleceted. Finland uses proportional representation which, in an ideal model, means that no vote is ever a wasted vote. UK uses the much more antiquated first past the post system, which leads to a situation where only two large parties are viable and any votes for smaller parties leech votes off of those two big ones.

 Henry wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
BTW above probably shows why I find it weird how in UK//USA it's basically "this party or that" In Finland 2 party goverment is pretty much minimum. 3-4 more common. One party forming up government alone is pretty much impossible.§§

I just had a look and the difference comes down to how your government is eleceted. Finland uses proportional representation which, in an ideal model, means that no vote is ever a wasted vote. UK uses the much more antiquated first past the post system, which leads to a situation where only two large parties are viable and any votes for smaller parties leech votes off of those two big ones.

Well it\s not 100% representative I think. 30% votes does not equal 30% seats. 2015 election results in order of most votes and seats:

pro-rural 21.1%, 49 seats(out of 200) so 24.5% seats
economical right-wing 18.2%, 37 18.5%
PS(the one that split) 17.7% 38 19%
Social democrats(left #1) 16.5% 34 17%
greens 8.5% 15 7.5%
left #2 7.1% 12 6%
swedish party 4.9% 9 4.5%
christians 3.5% 5 2.5%
Åland(never noticed this one. This I suppose is for the Åland autonomic island) 0.4% 1 0.5%

So there's some differences most notably with #2 and #3. I suppose this being due to each county(?) in Finland getting X amount of seats based on size while above voting % is full country so if you win something big time somewhere it might not reflect in seats as well as overall % count might suggest.

But yeah our system seems to favour more of multiple groups getting representation in the parliament and smaller groups getting often into goverment to give some buffer(would suck if goverment collapses due to vote of non-confident when couple guys are sick!)

Oh and BTW Greens are not surprisingly less than happy about the split turn of events claiming it was all pre-planned(seems bit too dramatic for preplanned though...). No surprise. With 8.5% votes last elections and gallups putting them somewhere around 15% now they actually have significantly to gain about new elections and could get into goverment if Social democrats would do well(since those two have common political lines often). Swedes and Christians also are probably less than happy as they might have been able to get significant concessions in return of joining goverment(without split that would have been about only viable option. Greens weren't interested wanting new elections and social democrats are also keen for votes + too different politics) so it was get them or new elections(which the pro-rural wouldn't be too happy about at the moment). Kick in the teeth so to speak for them.

This was an interesting read, thanks for the info!

Interesting ..

However I do like the UK systems puts direct representative but also vote share on the person chosen so if they do not help there local people we can kick em out.

PR is good ij some ways but FPTP gives a very direct local accountability

At the cost of disenfranchising a large segment of the population.

FPTP tends to give the ruling party total government control with the support of 35% of the country. That's how Canada suffered 12 years of an anti-science Harper government.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
At the cost of disenfranchising a large segment of the population.

True. I think PR needs a way that if a representative is sub par or not representative of them though they can kick them to curb.
That might work better in uk.

Thanks for the write up, it is nice to read about non-western politics. However is it me or have a lot of democracies have had "hold my beer" or "Leroy Jenkins" moments in the past couple of years?

 guardpiper wrote:
non-western

Finland is non-Western now?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 guardpiper wrote:
non-western

Finland is non-Western now?

Haha yeah that cracked me up Finland's goverment so prides itself as being part of west and here casually we got classified as non-west

The West is such a fickle notion on a globe anyway.

 jhe90 wrote:
Interesting ..

However I do like the UK systems puts direct representative but also vote share on the person chosen so if they do not help there local people we can kick em out.

PR is good ij some ways but FPTP gives a very direct local accountability

That is the theory. In practice most people vote on their view of the party leader and a very hazy general notion of policies.

Fortunately, though, it is possible to combine FPTP and PR in the same electoral system.

tneva82 wrote:


Hey the PS's new leaders are trying to get Finland's own Brexit as it is! They are calling it Fixit. So it's not like Finns aren't trying to equal you (well some anyway)

Shouldn't they be calling it Suxit?

 King Henry VIII wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Hey the PS's new leaders are trying to get Finland's own Brexit as it is! They are calling it Fixit. So it's not like Finns aren't trying to equal you (well some anyway)

Shouldn't they be calling it Suxit?

I dunno, Fixit has a nice ring to it.

Sounds a heck of a lot better than Brexit at least, and after all, we all know how good a political plan's name is directly influences how likely it is to succeed

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Interesting ..

However I do like the UK systems puts direct representative but also vote share on the person chosen so if they do not help there local people we can kick em out.

PR is good ij some ways but FPTP gives a very direct local accountability

That is the theory. In practice most people vote on their view of the party leader and a very hazy general notion of policies.

Fortunately, though, it is possible to combine FPTP and PR in the same electoral system.

Yeah as plans go.. That is pronbly the best one.

A mix of the two are the better idea than purely swapping from one to other.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 King Henry VIII wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Hey the PS's new leaders are trying to get Finland's own Brexit as it is! They are calling it Fixit. So it's not like Finns aren't trying to equal you (well some anyway)

Shouldn't they be calling it Suxit?

I dunno, Fixit has a nice ring to it.

Sounds a heck of a lot better than Brexit at least, and after all, we all know how good a political plan's name is directly influences how likely it is to succeed

So long as the person in charge of it is called Felix, we're good.

Since people didn't seem to take the joke, Finland is Suomi in Finnish and the Perussuomalaiset party is a very nationalist party and should thus presumably use Finnish rather than English, hence Suxit rather than Fixit.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 King Henry VIII wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Hey the PS's new leaders are trying to get Finland's own Brexit as it is! They are calling it Fixit. So it's not like Finns aren't trying to equal you (well some anyway)

Shouldn't they be calling it Suxit?

I dunno, Fixit has a nice ring to it.

Sounds a heck of a lot better than Brexit at least, and after all, we all know how good a political plan's name is directly influences how likely it is to succeed

[spoiler]



So long as the person in charge of it is called Felix, we're good.

I need to rewatch that movie!

And on topic. Fixit is still better despite being explained.
Felix cab negotiate with a golden hammer and a big freind.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Since people didn't seem to take the joke, Finland is Suomi in Finnish and the Perussuomalaiset party is a very nationalist party and should thus presumably use Finnish rather than English, hence Suxit rather than Fixit.

It doesn't work. Brexit and Fixit are mixing a country's name in English with the word exit, if you use the country's name in Finnish you should combine it with the word exit in Finnish.

So, according to google translate, it should be Suopoistua or something.

And Fixit is a better wordplay, 'cause Fixit is gonna fix it.

Okay. I guess there are more pendants on here than I realised.

Walrus gets it to a point but it was also a bit of wordplay on the pronunciation of suxit (sucks it) since Finland leaving the EU right now is a pretty terrible idea.

Oh well, at least I made myself chuckle.