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So, these indexes are both out and I thought it would be good to have a place to discuss them since there are a gak-ton of awesome units in there.

I'm most excited about the Tantalus - not only is it faster and tougher than all the other Drukhari vehicles, it shoots and melees and transports better than them too. And since it can get the Haemonculus Coven keyword, you can boost it up to T8 quite easily for even more ridiculous durability.

FAQ for the valkyries grav-chute insertion incoming. It was fun while it lasted boys.

I'm not too impressed with a lot of the big Eldar units, but the Vampire Hunter sure puts out an awful lot of firepower on a surprisingly durable body. Plus you can cast Word of the Phoenix on it.

And yeah the Tantalos looks pretty good too.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:
So, these indexes are both out and I thought it would be good to have a place to discuss them since there are a gak-ton of awesome units in there.

I'm most excited about the Tantalus - not only is it faster and tougher than all the other Drukhari vehicles, it shoots and melees and transports better than them too. And since it can get the Haemonculus Coven keyword, you can boost it up to T8 quite easily for even more ridiculous durability.

weird I think I found em put for some reason none of my ereader programs would read them

BrianDavion wrote:


weird I think I found em put for some reason none of my ereader programs would read them

I'm using Readium, which is a chrome app & works perfectly. Epub3 is not an easy format to get working, annoyingly.

Vultures are heavy 40 with BS 3+. Awesome.

Only if you don't move. Basically you have to choose between hovering and making it more vulnerable in exchange for better firepower, or stay mobile but score less hits.

Most enticing thing I saw was that you can buy manticores in squads. SQUADS! As if the Russ wasn't Irrelevant enough as-is.

Marauder bombers are better at shooting other zooming flyers than a vendetta........

A guardsman is better at shooting other flyers than a vendetta.....

Vendettas are better at shooting vehicles flying over 700 miles an hour when it is stationary........

bs modifiers when shooting with a lightning as are follows: -1 to bs for moving (mandatory) -1 to bs for hard to hit, and +1 to hit for it's autocannon. This gak is is indefensibly bad.

Seriously this edition is pretty cool so far, but the way flyers work is so stupid.

The Reaper is better and cheaper than the Ravager. I'm gonna convert all my Ravagers. It's crazy good. Warhammer just became pay to win for Dark Eldar XD

I'm happy with the vampire hunter but the revenant titan looks awful for only a little less than a warhound. Why did it not get macro weapons on it's Pulsars?

I'm not sure how I'm feeling about the eldar nightwing and Phoenix. Phoenix seems maybe good for it's price actually no idea why the stock pulsers are so cheap on it compared to the alternate options. Nightwing feels overpriced in comparison probably will still take both as they are way cheaper than other eldar flyers.

One problem I own an eldar vampire it has missile bays it does not have pulsers (does have pulsars though) how did they change missile bays to a weapon not even in the kit???

Well, it's pretty neat how Elysians pretty much have faction-wide deep strike.

At first glance I'm kind of disappointed by the Ork section, but I probably shouldn't be.

The thing I'm sad about isn't points, I haven't got my head around what's fair yet in that regard, I'm just sad that they got rid of so many cool ork units and options.

I'm hoping that Forge World puts out another Ork book in the future that adds some of them back. On one hand they don't produce models for a lot of the stuff anymore, but on the other hand they didn't include rules for some things that they do produce. I'm guessing (hoping) that they didn't include them for the sake of brevity and we'll get them back some day.

What a dumpster fire. Heavy 40 Vultures, flyers with infinite missiles because nobody bothered to put "one use only" on them, DKoK engineers that can't take their Hades drills anymore, etc, why exactly are we playing 8th again?

 Peregrine wrote:
What a dumpster fire. Heavy 40 Vultures, flyers with infinite missiles

Is it supposed to be self-evident that these are bad things?

So how are the Vandettas and the Barded Hierodule?

Have both.. keen as mustard to use

Reckless abandon is bad all around for the corsairs. I suspect a typo

GodDamUser wrote:
So how are the Vandettas and the Barded Hierodule?

Have both.. keen as mustard to use

Barbed Heirodule seems like it's pretty decent at everything. It's shooty, it's fast, it's tough and it's not bad in close combat. However, it's expensive and I couldn't say if it is worth its points.

Vendetta, 230pts all in. Pretty much a Valk with 6 Lascannons add you'd imagine.

Heirodule - knight-esque statline, 22 T8 wounds. 12 S8 ap2 d3 damage shots. 450ish pts.

(On a first impression)

Liked:
- R'alai. Kept most of his past character, although lost his anti-light infantry weapon and photon casters. But has no gets hot and the AT weapon has double shots at 12", which is nice.
- DX-4 Technical Drones. AFAIK, had no rules previously. Those little buggers are S5 in melee (!) and can repair suits. They alone can make Broadsides and any Nova-tides much more interesting than they are today. Also, Ta'unar is a battlesuit, so... . Sadly, can't fix vehicles.
- XV84 Commander. Just plain better than the old one - you have to hit with any weapon (has 2 slots) and 1 ML token will be applied to the target. It's a durable chain ML starter. It could go well with a Drone Controller and Shield Generator and stay at your backline, helping marker drones.
- Y'vahra. One of the better T'au units in the moment.
- R'varna. Its weapons doesn't increase hits and strength anymore, but average 6 shots per arm and able to get an ATS is really nice. It's mortal wounds nova effect is glorious vs elite melee deep strikers/fast stuff closing in
- Ta'unar. Lost a bit of durability, but offset it with drones taking hits for it. Secondary modes for Tri-axis and Pulse Bombardment seem lackluster. Nexus Missile is much better. Also, BS2+!
- TX7 Heavy Bombardment Hammerhead. It seems to be a good contender for the HYMP Broadside place. Certainly better than the old version with 2 MPs and a Velocity Tracker.
- TX7 Fire Support Hammerhead. It can exchange its base weapon for a twin HBC. For almost half the price of a Riptide, you can have its main gun - with more shots than a Nova'ed one! Ok, no 3++, drone help or ATS, but still seems a good deal to me. The Plasma version has better AP over the normal Hammerhead's Ion Cannon (no overcharge option, though) and its melta weapon is much better than its 7th version.
- DX-6 Remora. It lost the markerlight, but comes with BS4+ and it's a <Drone> (Drone Controller Coldstar leading a flock of Remoras comes to mind). It has Airborne, protecting it from common strong melee units AND hard to hit. It even comes with a Target Lock! It's one of the cheapest 'flyer' in the game. It has the nifty ability of showing up when you need it, like Tetras. No Supersonic means it's pretty agile.
- Barracuda AX-5-2. While some of its main guns got increased ranged and the railgun became a 36" heavy rail rifle, it lost much of its character. The old auto-targeting weapons became normal ones. It fires more dakka than before and has a passive 5++. Looks like it lost its Strafing Run ability.
- Tigershark AX-1-0. Ooh boy. It has TWO of Ta'unar's Rail Cannon. It has a problem of not being <Titanic> and having a Macro weapon, meaning it wouldn't be able to fire the Rail Cannon while moving. A mistake, of course. 2 of these will cost a bit more than a Ta'unar, but will do quite the job against big fellas.
- Drone Sentry Turret. It became better at its job (babysit backline objectives). Overwatch at BS5+, still cheap, 2 weapons instead of 1 twin-linked. It is <Drone>, so a good spot for a babysitting Drone Controller user!

Disliked/Neutral:
- The lack of Vehicle Systems. I'm afraid T'au will lose access to them entirely. :(
- R'myr. Nothing cool on him, really (lost 3++ on melee). And now can't even take drones!
- XV81 Commander. It's a Commander with 2 slots instead of 4, but with a locked-in SMS. Eh.
- XV9 Hazard. Got minor buffs, but still doesn't seem something I'd take... CIB Commanders fire 4 less shots than BC XV9s, but at better Strength and BS. Might be worth some tests.
- Tetras. Once one of Tau's stars, it's waning. Used to have 4 ML shots, then 2 twin-linked, now just 1 (that inflicts 3 ML at once). Comes at minimum 2 models. Lost homing beacons. In numbers, may be useful. has a nifty ability to show up when you need, allowing it to avoid enemy fire.
- Piranha TX-42. I don't understand why they nerfed it - it must fire its 2 weapons at the same target. Uh, if it at least could grab a multi-tracker... It might be an interesting platform for rail rifles.
- Heavy Gun Drones - better than they were before, but again with the unnecessary nerfs. If one of them fires a ML, they can't enjoy its benefits. Otherwise, they are W3 Gun Drones with double shooting.
- Tigershark Fighter-Bomber. The old drone-carrying Tigershark exchanged them for a S6 missile launcher. I don't see much use for it, as a Barracuda can fire as much S7 as it and is way cheaper.
- Orca Dropship. Interesting rules. Mostly useful to drop Flamer/Melta Crisis (can't carry any other kind of suit!) or Breachers near the enemy... I think it's cheaper to employ Homing beacon Stealth Suits. Can hover.
- Manta. I'll never have one, so I don't really bother with its rules. Seems good. It's harder to hit it now, instead of being easier in 7th.
- Remote Sensor Tower. A 3-token ML for 2 power level seems fancy. But ehh, I rather use Tetras, as the tower has only W3.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
What a dumpster fire. Heavy 40 Vultures, flyers with infinite missiles

Is it supposed to be self-evident that these are bad things?

When the Vulture was already one of the most powerful flyers in the game and suddenly gained double the firepower, yes. And when my Marauder is throwing eight hellstrikes per turn from a model that is only armed with eight total, yes.

Hold on, I just found something...

The Saber Weapons Battery.

"Defense Searchlight: If this model has a defense searchlight, at the start of each shooting phase it may select a single enemy model[sic] within 48" and line of sight. One friendly <REGIMENT> unit that attacks the chosen unit[sic] adds 1 to any hit rolls until the end of the shooting phase."

WE HAVE A WAY TO PUT +1 TO HIT ON ANY UNIT.

Granted, it's only one unit per searchlight, so it's kind of a quasi-Order. But we can put +1 to hit and make plasma weapons IMMUNE TO OVERHEATING! That's awesome! That thing hardly needs a weapon, it can pay for itself just by doing that!

Also, just think about how this interacts with plasma scions. Well, for one makes them immune to overheating of course. But you're still going to want to re-roll 1s. Why? Because remember, re-rolls happen before modifiers, and Scions hit on 3+. So, if they roll a 2, they get a +1 and hit. If they roll a 1, they re-roll it and probably hit.

This. Is. Awesome.

The only problem is, as I noted in the quote, it uses both "model" and "unit" to refer to your target. So which one is it? Even if "model" is correct and "unit" is a typo though, that's still amazing against vehicles, characters, and MCs, which will be the targets of overcharges anyway.

Looking through the most insane unit looks to be the guass pylon. Has a ridiculous macro weapon by far the cheapest access to one in the game.

I fully expect to see necrons playing this thing it also gives an aoe 5++ nevermind it's insane gun.

Grot Tank - Cheapest vehicle in the game (I think) at 36 points with a big shoota.

I like how the Wraithseer looks, though I didn't check point cost yet, just stats.

 Peregrine wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
What a dumpster fire. Heavy 40 Vultures, flyers with infinite missiles

Is it supposed to be self-evident that these are bad things?

When the Vulture was already one of the most powerful flyers in the game and suddenly gained double the firepower, yes. And when my Marauder is throwing eight hellstrikes per turn from a model that is only armed with eight total, yes.

-Double shots at BS 4+ is only slightly better then twin-linked, and with only a -1 penalty for shooting flyers it's less durable then before.

-Units can't fire multiple missiles by default AFAIK.

a-are you okay?

What the hell, they removed Earthshaker Carriage Batteries and Medusa Carriage Batteries from DKoK? FOOOOOOORGEEEEE WOOOOOOOOOORRLD

Well, otherwise, to summarise:

Liked:

Most infantry got massively cheaper. Hello 50 pts Infantry Squad, 15 pts Heavy Weapons, 8 pts/model Grenadiers, 55 pts Death Korps Marshal Karis Venner
The Mars-Alpha Pattern Tank costs the same as the normal one while being better.
Death Rider Command Squadron has Flanking Manouvres rule
Death Riders being as awesome as they are
Cult of Sacrifice
Storm Chimera not being as brutally overcosted as it previously was
Watch Masters being able to take hot-shot weapons. What?
Quad Launchers being 4d6, even though they went up massively in price.
The Hades Breaching Drill being awesome in combat.

Disliked:

Not having Death Rider Marshals (senior officer Death Riders)
Losing the Twin Heavy Stubber
Not having FRFSRF, and instead having a pistol 2 lasgun order. Why?! We already have the Fix Bayonets order!
Leman Russ Conqueror being a flat out better Leman Russ Battle Tank.
Getting Missile Launchers as heavy weapons.

Absolutley hated:

Not having Artillery Carriage Batteries
Not having Combat Engineer Rapiers
Not having Combat Engineer Hades
Not having Forlorn Hope. It might have been broken good, but could probably have been rebalanced in some way
No Death Korps Macharius, Malcador or Baneblades.


I see that this list was mostly based upon the Assault Brigade one, with the Storm Grenadier troops and no Artillery Carriages. It's not even that bad, since Earthshaker Carriages are 91 points with included crew per gun, while a Basilisk is 108 and quite a lot tougher (although it deteriorates). But this was supposed to update both lists! Mostly the same goes for the Hades and the Rapier Laser Destroyer, as the crews get Death Korps keywords and rules. It's mostly because it ruins the flavour. The Rapiers were used by Engineers because they were to delicate to let any grunt have them, and the Engineers were trained to use the Hades. The Malcador, Macharius and Baneblades being absent just makes no sense. Seriously.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
-Double shots at BS 4+ is only slightly better then twin-linked, and with only a -1 penalty for shooting flyers it's less durable then before.

It's way better because you're only considering the low end of firepower. At minimum you go from ~18 hits (BS 3 twin-linked) to 20 hits (BS 4+ 40 shots), but it's very easy to raise that firepower. Go into hover mode (now with only a +1 penalty to incoming fire) and you're shooting at BS 3+, for an average of 26.6 hits. And it only goes up from there now that IG have ridiculously cheap BS buffs. Each 20-point searchlight gives you +1 BS, so a 200 point Vulture is shooting at BS 2+ with 40 dice, averaging 33.3 hits per turn. Throwing in a Trojan for re-rolls is just overkill at that point.

-Units can't fire multiple missiles by default AFAIK.

Why not? I see no rule limiting how many you can fire, just a weapon profile like any other weapon profile.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aenarian wrote:
What the hell, they removed Earthshaker Carriage Batteries and Medusa Carriage Batteries from DKoK? FOOOOOOORGEEEEE WOOOOOOOOOORRLD

Like I said, dumpster fire.

 Peregrine wrote:


It's way better because you're only considering the low end of firepower. At minimum you go from ~18 hits (BS 3 twin-linked) to 20 hits (BS 4+ 40 shots), but it's very easy to raise that firepower. Go into hover mode (now with only a +1 penalty to incoming fire) and you're shooting at BS 3+, for an average of 26.6 hits. And it only goes up from there now that IG have ridiculously cheap BS buffs. Each 20-point searchlight gives you +1 BS, so a 200 point Vulture is shooting at BS 2+ with 40 dice, averaging 33.3 hits per turn. Throwing in a Trojan for re-rolls is just overkill at that point.

Like I said, dumpster fire.

Well, you have to give up the missiles. And pay 20 points for a Searchlight, or 90 for a Trojan. But yes, it should be nerfed. (Also I misread before about the points cost, so I edited that).

I don't think it's that much a dumpster fire. It's just that I don't see why they felt they only needed to update the Assault Brigade. I can still take any artillery I want since I can use the Imperium-keyword, it just rustles my jimmies. The army itself is in a much better position.

Having one of each Cerastus Knights comes up to 2030 points.

Forge Worrrrrrrrrrld! My good looking Knights!

Eldar are mostly interesting, and fairly close to on-par with the plastics Index. Hornet, Warp Hunter, and Shadow Spectres look pretty solid, on the fence about the Lynx and the Wasps, happy with the Phoenix and Nightwing.

Corsairs were a bit of a disappointment in not getting 95% of their stuff. What we've got is interesting (though the Cloud Dancers' cost and lack of jetbike turbo-boost is kind of silly), but no Felarch squads, costed squad leader upgrades, no interesting melee weapons, no Malevolents, no Venoms, and no characters leave them feeling really gutted. I may go and write my own stopgap patch to the stopgap patch for until the real Corsair rules come out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aenarian wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:


It's way better because you're only considering the low end of firepower. At minimum you go from ~18 hits (BS 3 twin-linked) to 20 hits (BS 4+ 40 shots), but it's very easy to raise that firepower. Go into hover mode (now with only a +1 penalty to incoming fire) and you're shooting at BS 3+, for an average of 26.6 hits. And it only goes up from there now that IG have ridiculously cheap BS buffs. Each 20-point searchlight gives you +1 BS, so a 200 point Vulture is shooting at BS 2+ with 40 dice, averaging 33.3 hits per turn. Throwing in a Trojan for re-rolls is just overkill at that point.

Like I said, dumpster fire.

Well, I agree that the Vulture is too good, but remember that you have to pay for both the Sabre Platform's weapons, at 7 pts for a Twin Heavy Stubber (or even more), a bloody Trojan is 90 points. But yes, it should definitely be nerfed to a single Punisher...

Maybe. Given what they've done with some shoot-twice weapons I was expecting 25 or 30 shots, not the full 40, but I'm not sure about giving up the extra wing slot for one Punisher.

(Though I'm also reading the Sabre searchlight as unplayably bugged until someone comes along and gives me an official version of that wording that makes a lick of grammatical sense.)