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Made in us
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper




Houston

Guys idk about you but having 4 shots per turn coming out of a 3 point model seems pretty broken. now with better orders than ever, a 40 man blob can output 160 shots... That will be enough to decimate anything, i know people want to math-hammer and say it takes 500 shots to down a landraider, but say i have 2 60 man conscript blobs thats 480 shots coming from them alone, and thats only 180 points. Dont get me wrong as a guard player i love the fact we are becoming more powerful but its not fun when i get to board wipe them turn 3 i like having friends.

"How do we kill the demon prince?! We drown him in our blood!!" 
   
Made in nz
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




You wanna hear some more math hammer?

Basic S3 AP- shooting, which should be effective against light infantry such as conscripts, actually does more points worth of damage (on average per shot) to super heavy infantry such as Terminators. You've mentioned how effective they are at shooting, but thats how massively resilient they are. Add in easy and cheap access to morale immunity to make them unbeatable.

Guardsmen and conscripts are too cheap, plain and simple.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





It definitely seems like it at first glance. I suspect you'll see some changes sooner or later from GW.
   
Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight





We have a local guy who has 450 and is planning to use them in 2,000 point games. Theoretically he can roll 1800 dice a turn....
   
Made in gb
Horrible Hekatrix With Hydra Gauntlets




I'm hoping/expecting they'll faq it to where Conscripts can't accept orders and the comissar has to kill d3 to negate morale. Both of those seem like sensible nerfs from a fluff and power perspective.
   
Made in us
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper




Houston

i cant say that im super upset about it tho. Throughout all of 7th guard was considered a lower tier army. Now i can run an effective brigade that holds nothing but conscripts, basilisks, rough riders, and commissars, as well as company commanders. From a fluff standpoint its really cool that we can have this WW1-esk feeling and manticores will be really cool as well.

"How do we kill the demon prince?! We drown him in our blood!!" 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




The commisar's morale rule makes sense for ever other IG unit except conscripts. Regular guardsmen and conscripts need to be bumped up by 1 point back to their original cost. Either that or increase the cost of weapon options and remove the conscript's ability to receive orders and benefit from commissars .

I think a good change to the summary execution rule is that the commissar may execute a model instead of rolling a D6 for morale (Chosen before rolling). Any casualties in excess of leadership still result in lost models. It essentially means you always roll a 1 for leadership, but if you use it you'll always lose at least one guy.
   
Made in cn
Regular Dakkanaut







The commisar rule should have been half the casualties, now it's just dumb.

Conscript squad size should also be reduced to maybe 30.

How the resilience math for brimstones vs these guys ? pretty sure they're the worst!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





If they nerf the commissar benefits to conscripts then nids and orcs should have their morale negation benefits also removed. It would be easier just to make them smaller units with no more than 20-30 in a unit. The points and giving conscripts isn't a problem. The only possible problem is how large of a unit you can take of them which amplifies those other areas.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/23 03:03:49


 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





Northern California

Four shots a turn sounds great, until you realize that said Conscript model has to be within 12" to achieve that number of shots. And only hits on a 5+ with a S3 weapon. And is even weaker than that in CC due to only having one attack at the same level of accuracy. And only has a 5+ save.

You can take a large blob of Conscripts, but all that means is that the Conscripts now deal more damage on average while losing a lot of efficiency against any given attack due to the number of models that will die.

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Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





I just played a 1500 point game, using Conscripts, a Shadowsword, some tanks, and some artillery.

I was facing mixed Chaos. He had a lot of horrors, a Stormlord full or renegade mortarmen, and a Helldrake.

I won handily, but it's worth mention that the conscripts were basically gone after turn 2. The Shadowsword and Pask, and to a lesser extent, the Wyvern and Punisher, were far more contributing to my cause.

He had first go and used the Stormlord and mortars on the Conscripts, which reduced them to about a dozen men. I retaliated by melting down the Stormlord with my Shadowsword and hosing down his horrors with my Punisher and Wyvern, killing quite a few as well. I wasn't able to kill the mortars. He brought on the Helldrake and moved up his Horrors, flaming the remaining conscripts, then charging them. He bombarded my other infantry units with his Mortars, erasing them. I returned fire, destroying the Helldrake then unloaded into the depleted Horror blob with my Wyvern and Shadowsword's sponsons, removing them from existence, and focused the other one with the Punisher.

For what it's worth, none of his Horror blobs fled the field. He just spent CP to keep them in place if they were really threatened. A mortar team failed battleshock once, but that was it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/23 04:38:34


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I like it in theory, except:

1) units this large are annoying as feth to play against. Takes forever to deploy, move, and attack. When you're rolling 80+ dice something is wrong with the game. Just like AoS it's just the wrong game system for units this large rolling this many dice.

2) orders I'm fine with, but the commissars ability essentially ignore battleshock is dumb. Real dumb. It should be the way to deal with them. It's silly that they're more resilient to casualties than SM veterans. Probably says more about the morale system maybe.

They suck at killing things, and they do die. I don't think they're OP, just a huge contributor to NPE.
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





Conscripts are fine at 3 ppm, it's not the cost that breaks them.

The thing that breaks them is;
1) Squadsize.
2) Spam.. You used to be able to take 1 conscript squad for each infantry platoon. Now you can fill your troop-selections with them and nothing else.

Possible fix?
Squadsize of 10-30, not 10-50, and make it so you can only have 1 conscript squad for every, let's say, third infantry squad.
If these changes are insufficient to bring them in line, I guess it's possible to make it harder for them to recieve orders.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/23 05:36:00


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Dakka Veteran




 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I just played a 1500 point game, using Conscripts, a Shadowsword, some tanks, and some artillery.

I was facing mixed Chaos. He had a lot of horrors, a Stormlord full or renegade mortarmen, and a Helldrake.

I won handily, but it's worth mention that the conscripts were basically gone after turn 2. The Shadowsword and Pask, and to a lesser extent, the Wyvern and Punisher, were far more contributing to my cause.

He had first go and used the Stormlord and mortars on the Conscripts, which reduced them to about a dozen men. I retaliated by melting down the Stormlord with my Shadowsword and hosing down his horrors with my Punisher and Wyvern, killing quite a few as well. I wasn't able to kill the mortars. He brought on the Helldrake and moved up his Horrors, flaming the remaining conscripts, then charging them. He bombarded my other infantry units with his Mortars, erasing them. I returned fire, destroying the Helldrake then unloaded into the depleted Horror blob with my Wyvern and Shadowsword's sponsons, removing them from existence, and focused the other one with the Punisher.

For what it's worth, none of his Horror blobs fled the field. He just spent CP to keep them in place if they were really threatened. A mortar team failed battleshock once, but that was it.


I'll call 300 points of Conscripts tying up 600+ points of Super Heavy and mortars for two turns a massive win. Then in the second turn tying up however many points of horros and Helldrakes; sounds like over 1000 points got tied up by 300 points. Seems about on par with what a 3ppm model should do.


IG artillery is fantastic this edition; hiding out of LOS and dishing out a massive amount of high S, AP ignoring shots.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Conscripts are the exact same cost as they were in 7th, where guard was dominated the majority of the time. The only thing that has changed is the way the game is played. Does that justify an increased cost? Maybe, but consider that it will create a domino effect.

If conscripts are 4ppm, infantry squads have to be 5ppm. If infantry squads are 5ppm, heavy weapons teams will also increase in cost. So now by increasing the cost of 1 unit, you just increased the cost of half the army.

Everyone keeps blaming conscripts but maybe the reason is that the new FRFSRF DOUBLED in effectiveness between 7th & 8th edition?

Guard has always been marketed as "drowning your opponent in bodies" and its most abundant resource being body count. In previous edition, that just simply wasn't true. For the first time in the game the guard are reflective of what they were always meant to be and everyone is losing their mind.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





fe40k wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I just played a 1500 point game, using Conscripts, a Shadowsword, some tanks, and some artillery.

I was facing mixed Chaos. He had a lot of horrors, a Stormlord full or renegade mortarmen, and a Helldrake.

I won handily, but it's worth mention that the conscripts were basically gone after turn 2. The Shadowsword and Pask, and to a lesser extent, the Wyvern and Punisher, were far more contributing to my cause.

He had first go and used the Stormlord and mortars on the Conscripts, which reduced them to about a dozen men. I retaliated by melting down the Stormlord with my Shadowsword and hosing down his horrors with my Punisher and Wyvern, killing quite a few as well. I wasn't able to kill the mortars. He brought on the Helldrake and moved up his Horrors, flaming the remaining conscripts, then charging them. He bombarded my other infantry units with his Mortars, erasing them. I returned fire, destroying the Helldrake then unloaded into the depleted Horror blob with my Wyvern and Shadowsword's sponsons, removing them from existence, and focused the other one with the Punisher.

For what it's worth, none of his Horror blobs fled the field. He just spent CP to keep them in place if they were really threatened. A mortar team failed battleshock once, but that was it.


I'll call 300 points of Conscripts tying up 600+ points of Super Heavy and mortars for two turns a massive win. Then in the second turn tying up however many points of horros and Helldrakes; sounds like over 1000 points got tied up by 300 points. Seems about on par with what a 3ppm model should do.


IG artillery is fantastic this edition; hiding out of LOS and dishing out a massive amount of high S, AP ignoring shots.


It was a massive win. He didn't have a chance, but not because of the conscripts. Mostly because he didn't have anything half-effective against tanks. Sure, he erased my conscripts, but he didn't erase my tanks while my real power was in tanks and artillery. He just couldn't. His Stormlord tried with it's Lascannons, and didn't do anything to the Shadowsword.

It was an equal chore for the next few turns to rip my way though the Horrors. My entire army's firepower could also remove about one of his Horror units a turn.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/23 06:00:58


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in it
Chaos Space Marine dedicated to Slaanesh




italy

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
fe40k wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I just played a 1500 point game, using Conscripts, a Shadowsword, some tanks, and some artillery.

I was facing mixed Chaos. He had a lot of horrors, a Stormlord full or renegade mortarmen, and a Helldrake.

I won handily, but it's worth mention that the conscripts were basically gone after turn 2. The Shadowsword and Pask, and to a lesser extent, the Wyvern and Punisher, were far more contributing to my cause.

He had first go and used the Stormlord and mortars on the Conscripts, which reduced them to about a dozen men. I retaliated by melting down the Stormlord with my Shadowsword and hosing down his horrors with my Punisher and Wyvern, killing quite a few as well. I wasn't able to kill the mortars. He brought on the Helldrake and moved up his Horrors, flaming the remaining conscripts, then charging them. He bombarded my other infantry units with his Mortars, erasing them. I returned fire, destroying the Helldrake then unloaded into the depleted Horror blob with my Wyvern and Shadowsword's sponsons, removing them from existence, and focused the other one with the Punisher.

For what it's worth, none of his Horror blobs fled the field. He just spent CP to keep them in place if they were really threatened. A mortar team failed battleshock once, but that was it.


I'll call 300 points of Conscripts tying up 600+ points of Super Heavy and mortars for two turns a massive win. Then in the second turn tying up however many points of horros and Helldrakes; sounds like over 1000 points got tied up by 300 points. Seems about on par with what a 3ppm model should do.


IG artillery is fantastic this edition; hiding out of LOS and dishing out a massive amount of high S, AP ignoring shots.


It was a massive win. He didn't have a chance, but not because of the conscripts. Mostly because he didn't have anything half-effective against tanks. Sure, he erased my conscripts, but he didn't erase my tanks while my real power was in tanks and artillery. He just couldn't. His Stormlord tried with it's Lascannons, and didn't do anything to the Shadowsword.

It was an equal chore for the next few turns to rip my way though the Horrors. My entire army's firepower could also remove about one of his Horror units a turn.


this looks good. but honestly your bat rep is not representative: the problem is not 50 conscripts, the problem is 300 conscripts + artillery. Your list was fine, not cheesetasty.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/23 06:09:18


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 gigabite244 wrote:
i cant say that im super upset about it tho. Throughout all of 7th guard was considered a lower tier army. .


That's lousy excuse similar to many "ahahaha your eldar got nerfed to useless" posts I see here. That just shows balance isn't what was hoped for in the first place but revenge and own toys into top...

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Wrong thread.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/23 06:35:58


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I would say Conscripts must be banned from receiving Orders. They weren't trained well enough to follow Orders.

Commissar needs a rules rework.
What if...
Aura of Discipline was REMOVED
Commissar became Ld 11
Lord Commissar became Ld 12
Commissar Yarrick became Ld13
Infantry Squads became Ld 5 (Sergeant 6)


Summary Execution becomes
"During the Morale Phase, you may execute a model in a Friendly IG Infantry unit within 6". If you do, that unit uses the Commissar's Ld Stat of their own."

This would have the effect of heavily reducing the effects of Shock without completely removing it as it currently does.


Oh, Let's bring back the idea of a Chain of Command influencing the Bravery of Troops around it.

Platoon Commander, Sergeant Kell, Sergeant Harker gain the current Aura of Discipline, but reduced to 3" instead.
This would make them Ld7, meaning that Sergeants are useful unless your Army are all Veterans. Which makes sense since they have Veteran Sergeants.
Actually, let's change this slightly...
Platoon Commander is renamed to Platoon Lieutenant
Sergeant Kell and Sergeant Harker are promoted to Lieutenant Kell and Lieutenant Harker
Veteran Sergeant from Veteran Squad becomes a Lieutenant
Now it's consistent that they are Ld7 because they are Lieutenants


Final thing to fix would be the Regimental Standard. +1 Ld doesn't really work with these rules. Changed to
"Friendly IG Infantry units within 12" subtract 1 from any Morale test they take."

Now the Regimental Standard stacks with the other rules we laid out.


Final things to fix in IG
Infantry Squads can be upto size 40
** Gains "For every 20 Guardsman, one additional guardsman may replace his lasgun with a Special Weapon."

Veterans can be upto size 30...
** Reduces"3 Veterans Special Weapons." into just 1... but
** Gains "For every 10 Veterans, one additional guardsman may replace his lasgun with a Special Weapon."
** Becomes Troop choice.


To Fix Daemons...
Brimstone Horror loses it's Invuln save...

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/23 07:12:03



6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47
 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






You need 216 heavy bolter shots to kill a landraider. And 346 heavy bolter shots to kill an equivalent points of conscripts in the open. So, even if you up their cost to 4 they'll still be tougher than a landraider vs a number of anti-infantry weapons.
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







 gigabite244 wrote:
i cant say that im super upset about it tho. Throughout all of 7th guard was considered a lower tier army. Now i can run an effective brigade that holds nothing but conscripts, basilisks, rough riders, and commissars, as well as company commanders. From a fluff standpoint its really cool that we can have this WW1-esk feeling and manticores will be really cool as well.


Cool can my Terminators have 5 wounds each and stay the same price so I can play fluffy finally?

 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
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Dakka Veteran




 koooaei wrote:
You need 216 heavy bolter shots to kill a landraider. And 346 heavy bolter shots to kill an equivalent points of conscripts in the open. So, even if you up their cost to 4 they'll still be tougher than a landraider vs a number of anti-infantry weapons.


People don't understand just how good 50 wounds is; and that's before factoring in armor saves and the like.

Even the heaviest of vehicles have 20/40/75 wounds (with 75 wounds being on the 2000/4000 point titans); 50 wounds is a crap ton this edition.

Hitting on 4+ (BS3)
Wounding on 3+ (S4-5)
Saving on 5+ (AP-0)

Has it taking 150.15 shots on average to down a Guardsman squad.
   
Made in nl
Dakka Veteran




Stockholm

 koooaei wrote:
You need 216 heavy bolter shots to kill a landraider. And 346 heavy bolter shots to kill an equivalent points of conscripts in the open. So, even if you up their cost to 4 they'll still be tougher than a landraider vs a number of anti-infantry weapons.


That is most likely because many vehicles are too vulnerable to S5+ weapons, which they weren't before, while low toughness models are less vulnerable to the same. Vehicle toughness and weapons with high strength should have increased toughness/strength I think. We have also removed most of the anti-horde weapons, so light infantry benefit more. Heavy Bolters were never really good against Conscripts.

But yes, the Conscripts should be nerfed in some way. Because I don't like large swings, I think beginning with them being unable to receive orders are a good start. In that case, they lose half of their theoretical damage output. If that isn't enough, maybe look over the Commissar interact. In any case a I think a rule akin to the following would be preferrable to a flat increase in points, as that would have consequences for the entire list which may not be good.

Untrained:

Conscripts cannot benefit from Orders or Leadership Auras. Summary Execution removes D3 models instead of 1


Of course, it could be bumped to all auras (I just think that whipping them into a frenzy with a priest could be considered fluffy) and D6 models instead of 1. In this case, they would still be the massive roadblock they should be, but morale should kill more models and their damage output is worse than other choices such as normal guardsmen. However, all other alternatives exhausted, I think they should be bumped in points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/23 06:59:26


~5000 points of IG and DKoK

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Georgia

As a guard player i can honestly say that on paper consripts look scary and in certain circumstances they can be hella effective from the couple of 8th games I've played, but i think conscripts have a sort of ciriticaln mass and i'd place ut at arounf 100. If your're taking more than 100 conscripts your going to be wasting time and I'd even say points.

They cant do everything, they NEED support and orders which mrans your tying charater and thus more points into them characters, especially charaters like a commisar are easily sniped out because if your daisy chaining conscripts out to syay in bubble range you're not getting all that firepower you could from orders (honestly its overrated). If your sending out multiples of commissars or commanders to negate the effects of sniping your taking points you could have spent elswhere to reinforce a meatsheild that most dangerous in inside of 12 inches and sucks at close combat, wounds most thing on 5-6+ and is as slow as cold syrup unless yet again you pump orders into them.

Offensivly at most I use them for cleanup duty, prime example in two games so far i've busted down vehicles with my heavy weapons to 1w remaining, cue the FRFSRF conscripts okay last wound gone, that as much as I expect from them. On the otherhand another scenario, double bubblewrap to deny deepstrike into my backline and soak charges, it this scenario they are so spread out i can't really bring all the lasguns to bear for overwatch and i just fall them back so other better guns can wipe put the threat down, like cheap hwt, vet squads, special weapon squads, dakkabus Tauroxes, hellhounds, plenty of other stuff. Put them on objectives and just let them score points caise now its number of models that determines control. I think their best suite as a defensive tool and a distraction by using their dice bucket and shaking it menacingly.

But thats okay, focus on the shmucks and pay no mind to the big guns behind the curtain

*Also screw moving more than 100 conscripts, makes me want to bludgeon myself over the head with said dice bucket.*

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/23 07:26:59


Vorradis 75th "Crimson Cavaliers" 8.7k

The enemies of Mankind may employ dark sciences or alien weapons beyond Humanity's ken, but such deviance comes to naught in the face of honest human intolerance back by a sufficient number of guns. 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ir0njack wrote:
As a guard player i can honestly say that on paper consripts look scary and in certain circumstances guars can be hella effective from the couple of 8th games I've played but i think conscripts have a sort of ciriticaln mass and i'd place ut at arounf 100. If your're taking more than 100 conscripts your going to be wasting time and I'd even say points.

They cant do everything, they NEED support and orders which mrans your tying charater and thus more points into them characters, especially charaters like a commisar are easily sniped out because if your daisy chaining conscripts out to syay in bubble range you're not getting all that firepower you could from orders (honestly its overrated). If your sending out multiples of commissars or commanders to negate the effects


The only army with good Snipers is IG. So it's not "easily Sniped".

Also, Platoon Commander and Commissar is just 50 points total.

That's literally 200 points for a 50 (52?) man squad

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/23 07:30:29



6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47
 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





The problem with Conscripts isn't really the cost of a Conscript, it's the Commissar. Huge morale losses should be what makes killing conscripts more efficient but that one cheap model makes it so a conscript blob does not have any counters.
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think conscripts's firepower is a bit overrated. But they don't need to kill stuff to shine.
They can completely shut down any enemy DS, and/or provide an excellent protection against charges from the front. Against assault-heavy armies, it can delay the attack on the important stuff by a couple turns, which is enough for the guard's shooty things to deal some serious pain.
Against shooty-armies that have enough range, they'll get ignored and won't do much.
   
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United Kingdom

 Sledgehammer wrote:
We have a local guy who has 450 and is planning to use them in 2,000 point games. Theoretically he can roll 1800 dice a turn....
But.. but... he'll dent the playing table with that much rolling :c
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Georgia

 Talamare wrote:
 Ir0njack wrote:
As a guard player i can honestly say that on paper consripts look scary and in certain circumstances guars can be hella effective from the couple of 8th games I've played but i think conscripts have a sort of ciriticaln mass and i'd place ut at arounf 100. If your're taking more than 100 conscripts your going to be wasting time and I'd even say points.

They cant do everything, they NEED support and orders which mrans your tying charater and thus more points into them characters, especially charaters like a commisar are easily sniped out because if your daisy chaining conscripts out to syay in bubble range you're not getting all that firepower you could from orders (honestly its overrated). If your sending out multiples of commissars or commanders to negate the effects


The only army with good Snipers is IG. So it's not "easily Sniped".

Also, Platoon Commander and Commissar is just 50 points total.

That's literally 200 points for a 50 (52?) man squad


Eldar Rangers, Necron deathmarks, SM scouts, Vindicar for any imperial army or Ratlings since they are imperium keyword, with T3 4w and 5+ armor commisars can totally be sniped, especially if you want to try and get in range for that full effect FRFSRF. Also 50 pts is a third of the cost of the squad, but if you're running 200-300 conscripts with their own commissar and commander that's what, 800-1000pts in just bodies with no upgrades, that seems pretty impractical.

Vorradis 75th "Crimson Cavaliers" 8.7k

The enemies of Mankind may employ dark sciences or alien weapons beyond Humanity's ken, but such deviance comes to naught in the face of honest human intolerance back by a sufficient number of guns. 
   
 
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