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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






How do?

So after a visit to my local store earlier today, this thought popped into my head on the short drive home.

Games Workshop and it's success - it just seems so incredibly unlikely. And really, that thought extends to all gaming companies when you think about it.

I mean, there's the store in my town. And all it does is essentially sell two games. Just two games.

Yet the company behind it all is something of an industry juggernaut, reporting sales year on year of millions upon millions of pounds. What's up with that? How can just two very niche, very geeky games generate so much cash?

And that thought comes after I picked up £290 worth of toys (including a new set of brushes, one of each). And I spent that money without batting an eyelid. I've been involved in the Hobby for so long I don't even count the cost (ymmv of course. I'm completely open to the idea of being the weirdo on that count). I mean....that's serious money, a little over two thirds of the rent on my first flat. Just spent on a relative whim.

How? How have they done this to me? Normally I can be a bit tight fisted. I'll forgo computer games on release in the sure and certain knowledge that given a few months, I can pick up a second hand copy in CEX for at least half the cost new.

Christ, £290 is a nice weekend away somewhere. But no. I wazzed it up the wall with nary a second thought on some books and some models (Magnus, Corvus Blackstar and the five Indecies if your interested. Oh, and the brushes. And a pot of Reikland Flesh Shade and a can of Retributor Armour). And I don't regret it one inch, even with this 'what the hell am I doing?' revelation.

And clearly, clearly I'm not the only one doing this. There's thousands upon thousands of fellow hobbyists dropping millions collectively each and every week on our chosen games. On plastic, lead and Resin. Are we all completely mental? It truly boggles the mind.

But from that comes another revelation. Yes, I spend inadvisable amounts on my hobby, but what do non-hobbyists do with their money? If you're into your fashion, you might spend a couple of hundred on an outfit you'll only wear a couple of times. If you're a natural jet setter, you'll give up entire weekends to go visit a city somewhere, despite any real differences, at least in the west, being largely cosmetic. Sports fans might drop a couple of thousand on a season ticket, and spend yet more getting to and from away matches - and if the World Cup is on, and you're British, you'll spend thousands of pounds just to go watch your nation suck horribly and be sent home early due to dismal failure (unless you're Scottish, because there's no World Cup for you. And yes, I too am a Scot).

Maybe, just maybe us Nerds are the ones getting it closest to right. Sure, once I've built and painted Magnus he'll be wheeled out once in a while for the rare times I can squeeze a game in. But I'll always have him. And once he's painted and on display, I'll always remember the enjoyment I got from building and painting him. And after a few games, I'll have happy memories of his exploits on the field of battle. Me being me, it'll likely be the 'remember that time Grots beat up Magnus? Good times', because that's the stuff I usually remember.

What curious little beings are we!

   
Made in gb
Malicious Mandrake




Think you've answered your own question. And ludicrous is fun - quite often!
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Whilst I've drifted away from GW for various reasons the sheer improbability of a company that essentially makes toy soldiers surviving in the Internet age leaves me simultaneously cheerful and baffled.

And if feel a little worried by the spending find a golf or cycling nerd and ask the how much they blow on their 'toys'

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
and if the World Cup is on, and you're British, you'll spend thousands of pounds just to go watch your nation suck horribly and be sent home early due to dismal failure (unless you're Scottish, because there's no World Cup for you. And yes, I too am a Scot).


Not so; English fans have but one team to support during the World Cup. Scots have at least three, and that's before England make it out their group.

The thing is, everyone has a "hobby"; those other things - fashion, travel, sport are all hobbies, but no-one describes them as such because that would make them sound weird and nerdy. I'm not sure if there is a leisure activity that can't be made to sound really odd to those who don't partake in them. £300 on minis, or a weekend away? After the weekend, you'll still have the minis, but if you enjoy the travelling and sightseeing more than painting, well, the weekend away's a better deal.

Gardening, now - I really don't get that one. I understand the pleasure that comes from a well-maintained garden, but I really don't like doing that maintaining.



   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Ahhh....Simon Quinlank, King of Hobbies.

Let us all raise a glass of Weak Lemon Drink to him!

   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

And clearly, clearly I'm not the only one doing this. There's thousands upon thousands of fellow hobbyists dropping millions collectively each and every week on our chosen games. On plastic, lead and Resin. Are we all completely mental? It truly boggles the mind.


Any hobbiest in any realm of interest spends as much - if not more.
I recently learned that a high end digital camera with a good lens can cost around 5k
My friend is seriously into car racing and has dropped circa 20k on his particular model to go vroomvroom.
Im in a band myself and the amount me and them have spent in studios/equipment and sound gear does surpass my 40k hobby.

But I get the gist of your post

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in us
Angelic Adepta Sororitas




Why earn money if not to spend it on something you enjoy? After your neccesties are taken care of and you have adequate savings for rainy days, I can't justify NOT indulging in hobbies I enjoy, especially as you stated, in tactile things like minutures. That to me holds increased value in these times when everything is digital,video, memes and other forms of entertainment that require a screen.
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





 Ratius wrote:
And clearly, clearly I'm not the only one doing this. There's thousands upon thousands of fellow hobbyists dropping millions collectively each and every week on our chosen games. On plastic, lead and Resin. Are we all completely mental? It truly boggles the mind.


Any hobbiest in any realm of interest spends as much - if not more.
I recently learned that a high end digital camera with a good lens can cost around 5k
My friend is seriously into car racing and has dropped circa 20k on his particular model to go vroomvroom.
Im in a band myself and the amount me and them have spent in studios/equipment and sound gear does surpass my 40k hobby.

But I get the gist of your post


A while ago I posted a brief summary of previous/current hobbies of mine, that are EASILY more expensive than 40K:

- pre-digital photography (that was a long ago...): cost of camera(s), lenses, darkroom equipment, films, papers and chemicals would buy me a couple of full-range 40K factions... And then came the digital era and new camera and suitable studio computer costs and large format printing;
- playing concertina: even an entry level instrument is worth a 2K army; mid range or lower high end instrument is worth a car;
- steampunk cosplay/prop making: a single outfit, including a hand made leather tailcoat, took me more time and money to make than my entire 40K collection;
- xc/downhill mountain biking and climbing: can't really even count those accurately, too many years, too much money on gear and trips;

From where I stand, 40K is preaty cheap hobby if you count it "$$$ per hour of fun".

And if I had to attempt to answer thie initial question of "how GW managed this in digital era" - exactly because they are NOT digital. GW offers relatively cheap way to possess many, easily storable material things, which emotional and material value can be increased by painting them or playing with them. Even more - those material possessions don't diminish with time. I still have my first lead Striking Scorpions bought in 1995 and can still use them. My original copy of X-COM: Terror from the deep from the same 1995 is at the dump somewhere, because 3.5" discs and computers that could read them became obsolete quite a while ago. Of course, I could (and did a while back) download a fresh copy of that game and play it once again, but such experience is much different than playing with physical models I painted 20 years ago.

Humans are hoarders by nature, we like owning things, and we like physical experience. I don't realy feel owning anything digital. My stored old emails are much less memory inducing than my stored old letters from same periods.
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland


And if I had to attempt to answer thie initial question of "how GW managed this in digital era" - exactly because they are NOT digital. GW offers relatively cheap way to possess many, easily storable material things, which emotional and material value can be increased by painting them or playing with them. Even more - those material possessions don't diminish with time. I still have my first lead Striking Scorpions bought in 1995 and can still use them. My original copy of X-COM: Terror from the deep from the same 1995 is at the dump somewhere, because 3.5" discs and computers that could read them became obsolete quite a while ago. Of course, I could (and did a while back) download a fresh copy of that game and play it once again, but such experience is much different than playing with physical models I painted 20 years ago.

Humans are hoarders by nature, we like owning things, and we like physical experience. I don't realy feel owning anything digital. My stored old emails are much less memory inducing than my stored old letters from same periods.


Great post

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Cheltenham, UK

As one who has substantially slashed his hobby budget (I've spent about £200 on my hobby in the last 12 months, not including club subs), I can exclusively reveal what my money now goes on:

1. Food. I take my food seriously. I try very hard to buy local and/or organic and, failing that Fairtrade or food otherwise traded under a fair labour scheme. I'm big on sourcing and ingredients. I'm also a fan of buying ingredients rather than processed stuff. It's one of modern life's ironies that this either works out no cheaper or more expensive than buying mass-produced stuff. We spend about £200 per week on food.

2. Children. Let me tell you: these little buggers are expensive. When they aren't busily out-growing their clothes, they're scampering off on school trips, having birthdays or expressing an interest in some new hobby or activity that needs underwriting.

3. House. I bought a huge but dilapidated house with my wife a few years ago. Gradually it is becoming a less-dilapidated home (although the aforementioned children are not helping the process). The less said about the garden the better. Yes, eventually there will be a dedicate games room. I may predecease this eventuality.

4. A dog. Singular, however much my Best Beloved begs me. I have an allergy, so we got a miniature poodle who is lovely, but he was £500 new and costs about £1000 per year in food, boarding fees (when he can't come on holiday with us), insurance and vet's bills.

5. Holidays. We don't spend a lot on family holidays. We like a houseswap. But when we can offload the critters on a gullible family member, SWMBO and I do love a really nice hotel. Four stars, minimum, city centre, with quality restaurants (see food, above), culture and decent shopping.

6. Books. I own a kindle, but I just can't stop myself. I just love buying books. Obviously, there's lots of SF and fantasy in there, but I must be grown up now because I keep buying books about economics, history, sociology and linguistics.

7. Other hobbies. SWMBO is a runner. I always hated running, but the one thing I did like about it was how bloody cheap it was. But they've turned it into an industry, these days: you've got your minimum-£100 smartwatch, your £200 trainers (good for about three months of serious running), your other two pairs of £200 trainers (different surfaces, see), your "technical" T-shirts, your clever pants, your sports bras (not mine, obviously), your race entry fees, your club subs (can't argue with that, really), your medal racks and the various fancy pouches, caps, hoods and gloves that are obvious must-buys, it all adds up. Me? I do karate. I have one gi and one belt (yes, it's black).

R.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/24 19:34:33


   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





 Ratius wrote:

And if I had to attempt to answer thie initial question of "how GW managed this in digital era" - exactly because they are NOT digital. GW offers relatively cheap way to possess many, easily storable material things, which emotional and material value can be increased by painting them or playing with them. Even more - those material possessions don't diminish with time. I still have my first lead Striking Scorpions bought in 1995 and can still use them. My original copy of X-COM: Terror from the deep from the same 1995 is at the dump somewhere, because 3.5" discs and computers that could read them became obsolete quite a while ago. Of course, I could (and did a while back) download a fresh copy of that game and play it once again, but such experience is much different than playing with physical models I painted 20 years ago.

Humans are hoarders by nature, we like owning things, and we like physical experience. I don't realy feel owning anything digital. My stored old emails are much less memory inducing than my stored old letters from same periods.


Great post


Thanks!
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

I build robots.

Wargaming is my cheap hobby


A fellow gamer I know is into fishing Bass. Now that is a bowel looseningly expensive hobby...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/25 02:16:06


The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Golden Throne

I really like your post.

The anti-gw types are probably turning themselves inside out reading it. Its great.

It is amazing and an often overlooked achievement. According to the internets GW should have been long gone or bought out. Lol.



   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






It's not really a pro-GW thing, so much as marvelling that the industry exists at all, let alone thrives.

Yes, GW seem to be the root cause - the one that showed it could be done. But that even a small start up can, with fair wind and bit of luck, grow year on year is still somewhat baffling.

Let's take Wild West Exodus. Whilst not a game of great interest to me, I suspect it's going to do well. Not only are the models gorgeous (and that's the main thing I think), but it's setting is unique in the industry. SciFi meets Steampunk in The Old West.

Perhaps the sheer passion of the creators are the driving force? If you're enthused and passionate, it comes across in the models and the game. If you're just in it because others made it look easy? Well, good luck, you're gonna need it.

Switching back to GW, let's consider their recent journey and performance. They've gone from being Tight Mouthed Larry, to a company that can't stop frothing about its releases - yet in a way which makes them feel like one of us. Sure it's ultimately all sales patter, but you can tell those making the game and models are genuinely out to make it the best experience they can now.

I don't know how long you've been involved, Dear Reader. But if it's been a good while, cast your mind back to the release of the Plastic Giant. That kit was pushed and promoted in a heavy handed manner. Me, I liked it, and wound up with two in the end. But others took exception to the push, and it became something of a bone of contention. Yet GW continue to do much the same, but the reception is warmer. It doesn't feel like a Faceless Corporation telling us to consume, consume and consume.

It really is all quite bizarre!

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gig Harbor, WA

Games Workshop didn't get to where it is today with two games. It started out selling other people's games, and writing about them in their magazine. It managed to dominate the English wargaming marketplace through its brick and mortar. At the same time it was creating game types for every conceiveable game line.

25mm block infantry? WFB
25mm skirmish scifi? 40k.
25mm fantasy skirmish? Mordheim
25mm scifi skirmish? Necromunda
small scale fantasy naval combat? man-o-war
small scale sci-fi combat? epic
weird blood sports game? Bloodbowl!

And then they had board game tie ins like hero quest or that Milton bradly battle game to reel in the kids when they were young.

They used to advertise as well. And they had video games.

GW was pretty well managed in the 90s, and used its dominant position in the UK brick and mortar marketplace to leverage itself into a whole lot of other places. And once they had their dominant position, they used it to start killing off the competition, although that was always more successful in the UK.

Of course, good management never lasts, and the successor administrations turned it into a money machine and started killing off its less successful branches without realizing they were opening up gaps in the marketplace for competitors to grow into.

   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Eastern Fringe

This train of thought has passed through my brain station on occasion and I really think it's cool that a shop selling little plastic men can still make decent bank in this day and age.

I also think it is a testament to the 40k lore and I really hope that GW puts in a lot more time and effort into building up AOS (I'm still a little sore from the Old World disappearing, although I do understand why)

Warhammer 40,000 is one of the biggest, richest and most developed lores around, I do sometimes wonder why they don't expand their game ranges.

The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. 
   
Made in us
Fiery Bright Wizard





California

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Whilst I've drifted away from GW for various reasons the sheer improbability of a company that essentially makes toy soldiers surviving in the Internet age leaves me simultaneously cheerful and baffled.

And if feel a little worried by the spending find a golf or cycling nerd and ask the how much they blow on their 'toys'


And even moreso than that, it isn't disney, it isnt star wars or star trek or marvel. It's its own original creation that has its own distinct style. And that is why it is special. This is also why I cringe every time they do something drastic to change what is basically a backdrop for models and gaming. Bringing the primarchs back, primaris marines, rescaled death guard.. etc all threatens to throw off the carefully crafted world that has grown over the years.

 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






 Twoshoes23 wrote:
Why earn money if not to spend it on something you enjoy? After your neccesties are taken care of and you have adequate savings for rainy days, I can't justify NOT indulging in hobbies I enjoy, especially as you stated, in tactile things like minutures. That to me holds increased value in these times when everything is digital,video, memes and other forms of entertainment that require a screen.


This is likely why so many people like non-digital hobbies as an escape. Be it golf, cycling, diving or something like boardgaming or wargaming, there's something about not looking at a digital screen for a while. You sit at a computer to do work, you look at things on your smart phone, you watch things and play games on your TV, you browse the internet and play yet more games on your PC.

Our lives are jam packed with looking at screens that some just want to do something that is not looking at those.
   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Eastern Fringe

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Bringing the primarchs back, primaris marines, rescaled death guard.. etc all threatens to throw off the carefully crafted world that has grown over the years.


How do you expect it to continue to grow, as it has done for 30 odd years, if not for changes and additions? I grant you that any choice comes with an element of risk attached, however, that fact it has grown over the years has made it what it is today. Stagnation only ends in death.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/26 06:50:28


The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. 
   
Made in us
Snord




Midwest USA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But from that comes another revelation. Yes, I spend inadvisable amounts on my hobby, but what do non-hobbyists do with their money? If you're into your fashion, you might spend a couple of hundred on an outfit you'll only wear a couple of times. If you're a natural jet setter, you'll give up entire weekends to go visit a city somewhere, despite any real differences, at least in the west, being largely cosmetic. Sports fans might drop a couple of thousand on a season ticket, and spend yet more getting to and from away matches - and if the World Cup is on, and you're British, you'll spend thousands of pounds just to go watch your nation suck horribly and be sent home early due to dismal failure (unless you're Scottish, because there's no World Cup for you. And yes, I too am a Scot).
And this is pretty much the conversation I have with my friends when they complain about the costs of getting into miniature wargaming (Warhammer in particular). I try to point out to them that they are spending hundreds of dollars on the newest video game system and games for it, roughly: console for $300 or 400, a few games for it at $50 a piece, an extra controller or two, a headset, online subscription, which all comes to about $600 to $800 at least. That would get you a decent sized army for any system, including the paints and tools to assemble if you didn't already have them. I think that part of it is that it is such a niche and unique hobby in comparison to everything else; "normal" people don't do wargaming, but video games, music playing, shooting sports, car/bike/other racing racing, owning horses, owning and flying a personal plane, fancy cooking, or playing sports can be viewed as "normal", but still be expensive hobbies.

Perhaps it is a matter of a perpetual amateur status. Those other expensive hobbies can sometimes be lucrative if you are skilled or lucky enough (sports, music, racing, etc.), and you can become successful at those and be seen on regular TV if successful. But to be a professional at Warhammer? You can have a hit YouTube channel or Blog, but that's not "conventional" success. No matter how good one might get at playing the game or painting the miniatures, it will still likely be viewed as "quaint" to "normal" people outside of our hobby.

And you want to talk about your teams never winning the championships? I was raised a Cubs fan by my mother, and it took them 108 years to win the World Series again! And now GW has released some plastic Sisters of Battle in the form of Celestine and her bodyguard. If Valve were to release Half-Life 3 at this point, it would surely be a sign of the End Times!

 argonak wrote:
GW was pretty well managed in the 90s, and used its dominant position in the UK brick and mortar marketplace to leverage itself into a whole lot of other places. And once they had their dominant position, they used it to start killing off the competition, although that was always more successful in the UK.

Of course, good management never lasts, and the successor administrations turned it into a money machine and started killing off its less successful branches without realizing they were opening up gaps in the marketplace for competitors to grow into.
Strong men create good times.
Good times create weak men.
Weak men create rough times.
Rough times create strong men.

Repeat.
   
Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy





Illinois

"I don't drink (health reasons not moral,) subscribe to cable or satellite tv and live in a two income household with no children."

I recite this mantra over and over while looking at hobby costs every month.

“Rumours are naught but lies given shape by the foolish tongues of the ignorant. Ignorance begets heresy. Heresy begets retribution.” -Regimental Standard
 
   
Made in us
Blackclad Wayfarer





Philadelphia

eduit

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/03 20:00:13


   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick






But I'll always have him. And once he's painted and on display, I'll always remember the enjoyment I got from building and painting him


This is one nice aspect of the hobby. Aside from the game play aspects of it, I have a very nicely painted Imperial Guard force, which is always fun to show off (even people who don't know what 40k can appreciate the work that went into detailing the things.) If it weren't for the cool modeling/fluff aspects of it 40k would probably be a lot less appealing to me.


One of my other hobbies, Airsoft, does not have this advantage lol. In Airsoft, equipment is constantly breaking down, at which point it becomes junk to be sold or thrown out lol. Not like 40k where if a model's stats aren't stellar I can at lest enjoy its appearance.

You say Fiery Crash! I say Dynamic Entry!

*Increases Game Point Limit by 100*: Tau get two Crisis Suits and a Firewarrior. Imperial Guard get two infantry companies, artillery support, and APCs. 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

You answer much of your own question with this bit.

but what do non-hobbyists do with their money? If you're into your fashion, you might spend a couple of hundred on an outfit you'll only wear a couple of times. If you're a natural jet setter, you'll give up entire weekends to go visit a city somewhere, despite any real differences, at least in the west, being largely cosmetic. Sports fans might drop a couple of thousand on a season ticket, and spend yet more getting to and from away matches - and if the World Cup is on, and you're British, you'll spend thousands of pounds just to go watch your nation suck horribly and be sent home early due to dismal failure (unless you're Scottish, because there's no World Cup for you. And yes, I too am a Scot).


One of the features of Capitalism is a fair number of folks with disposable income.

As for who is doing it right, I think it is more complicated than that. As you say, those who engage in arts and crafts do have something to show for their work at the end of the day, but that doesn't mean that the result of their labor will necessarily have some particular value. Value is of course not the whole picture, but from a financial standpoint, purchaseing of used electric basses and electric guitars is almost the best choice as unless damaged they are almost always sellable for what they were purchased for.

As for travel -and possibly even sports tickets- it's not as silly as you might think. Studies have shown that as far as general emotional well being is concerned spending money on "experiences" usually pays the most dividends when compared to purchasing possesions. That trip across the channel or those game tickets might not be as unwise a purchase as you think.

I don't have any concrete measure of my own experience, but while I always enjoyed collecting and hobbying, I started enjoying my gaming purchases alot more when they were connected to spending evenings gaming with my friends.

Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/


My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com 
   
 
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