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I feel the vast majority of <Type> 1D6 weapons are underwhelming. Old Blasts perhaps could stay 1D6 since coherency shenanigans pretty much meant you could get only 1 hit but Flamers and other Template weapons at the very least would ALWAYS get at least 2 hits.

Also, overwatch should allow all guns to fire at the charging unit regardless of range. It makes no sense that flamers can't hit a charging unit if they charge from 8.01" away, but will wreck face if they charge from 7.99" away.

Ya it does make those weapons underwhelming.
After a few games i have finally started looking at the points, and I'm kinda amazed to see those weapons are typically high point costed. Not worth it.

Personally I would have liked to have seen more variation in the rolls for number of hits, as it provides some difference among flame weapons.

As for the 2D3 hits per flamer, that could work, but it might make them too powerful on average for squads that can take a lot of flamers.

Remember, though that Template weapons only got 1 hit on single model units before, so it kinda evens out.

But otherwise, I agree with what you are going after.
I would have liked to seem more 2D3, or D3+1 type weapons, the variation for D6 is just too wide to be reliable

Agreed. I've not yet considered Flamers ignoring range on charge since distance Its closed after. ForTau the airbrushing frag rifle is useless add no body wants d6 s4 0 1 attacks at 4+, is doomed to fail. Also Its far to risky to over charge a 6 hit weapon to a d6 no matter how much the damage improves. 2d3 or d6+1 both look like good ways to improve these responsibly. I'm leaning towards d6+1 to keep with the theme of randomness where it's most applicable, 2d3 is somewhat solidly 4.

My main gripe on the blast weapons is that you're rolling for a random number of random rolls, which IMO is just too much randomness when you have to roll to-Hit anyway. I'd prefer to see flamers be the weapons with random hits, and things like grenades, blasts etc. just have a fixed number of "shots", since it's your Ballistic Skill that determines how well you would place the blast anyway.

The current mechanic makes it feel like your blast weapons have incredibly unreliable yields, as you can roll 1 for "shots" at which point it doesn't matter how good a shot your model is.


For this reason I'm tempted to house rule average rolls, so a Type D3 would become Type 2, Type D6 becomes Type 4, and Type 2D6 becomes Type 7, which gives them (roughly) average number of shots every time, so it's down to BS alone. No more randomly extra powerful frag grenade/missile etc. or Volcano Cannon that someone forgot to plug in to a wall socket that round.

Thinking about this for weapons meant to be anti-infantry it would have been interesting to see them gain bonuses against larger squads. So maybe flamers are 1D6 hits, but 2D3 against squads of at least 10, and 3D3 against squads of 20+. Similar with blast weapons.

I'd change large blast weapons like battle cannons into more like 2+D3 hits, or 3+D3, plasma cannons would be 1+D3, flamers 2+D6 etc etc. Makes them more reliable and useful against horde armies which at the moment most of them are like urinating in the wind.

I do like the concept of the target's composition affecting the number of shots/hits with blast weapons - it appropriately rewards aiming those widely-destructive weapons against large numbers of targets packed relatively close together.

I think mechanics like that Forgeworld Chaos superdreadnought Grav-Flux-whatever, with +1d3 shots per 5 models, goes a bit too far. Mobs of cheap models need to have their place in the game, and that sort of mechanic would be unduly punishing.

Instead, I prefer a mechanic that changes d3s to d6s - it increases both potential and average effect, but there's still the chance to whiff (as is Tradition for blast weapons in the 41st millenium) and it doesn't overly punish Orks for taking 30 Boyz a Mob, Guants 30 models a swarm, or the like.

That should be combined with either making large blasts 2d3 instead of d6, or adding a set number of shots +d3 with small blasts using 0 to 1+d3, large blasts using 2 to 3 +d3, etc.

Together, you're looking at d6 small blasts and 2d6 large blasts when you meet the target number threshold (whatever that's set to)






Concerning the overwatch and Flamer issues, I was wondering about a potential fix and its effect overall:

What if Overwatch checked range/LoS/etc. AFTER the charge was made, rather than before, with the caveat that Overwatch allows a previously unengaged squad to fire even if within 1" of an enemy model?

It would fix the flamer issue (if you're in range to assault, in you're in range of the flamer, and probably even a hand-flamer) and it would fix the oddity that a unit could charge from behind a rhino or other blocked LoS to avoid Overwatch attacks, but it would also make Overwatch generally more potent (you're almost guaranteed rapid-fire instead of mostly expecting it, you're getting roll-two melta mechanics, Flamers are always applicable, and range-dependent fire modes are generally significantly strengthened - i'm particularly thinking of T'au Breacher squads here).

It might be easier and less disruptive just to give every flamer weapon a bolted on "When firing Overwatch, Flamers don't have to check to see if the enemy is in range to roll their hits" clause, since that's the biggest issue with using Flamers as anti-assault defense - it only works if the enemy is willing to get into range for them to begin with!

Just make overwatch not require the unit to be in range.