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So Daemons are an army that should be able to take hordes of lesser Daemons. Unfortunately, they do not have the same Morale mitigation tricks that Nids and Orks have.
Nor should they. I like how Morale simulates Daemonic Instability. But at only LD7, there really is no reason to take big units and that is a shame.

My simple proposal would be to swap the Heralds' buff rule with that of the Greater Daemons.
For those who do not know, Heralds currently grant all nearby "like" Daemons +1S. So a Khorne Herald give +1S to Bloodletters, for example
Greater Daemons allow units within 6" to use their LD. So a Thirster gives LD10 to nearby Flesh Hounds, for example

This really should be swapped (and tweaked). Heralds, by their very name, should be empowering nearby units with the stability of their patron.
They should grant their LD to all "like" units within 12". And that LD should be 9 in all cases. AoS uses the same Morale system and all Daemons are LD10. I don't think Heralds handing out LD9 is too much to ask. Now make Icons re-roll morale and we can finally take large Daemon units without it given the opponent free casualties.

And Greater Daemons are a nexus of their patrons' strength, therefore it makes more sense that they give nearby units +1S (including themselves)

Seems fair to me.

In theory what you are suggesting makes a lot of sense. But I'm still hesitant to agree with you simply because from my experience, Daemon Hordes aren't a weak army. Having played against a Tzeentch army which can buy 10 Brimstone horrors for 20pts, with a 4++, and the changeling hidden in the horde to provide the majority of his army with -1 to hit within the massive 18'' diameter aura, I question if this is a buff Daemons need?

I had nothing that could pile on enough wounds to stop the advancing horde of horrors that'd tie up my units while smite and Daemon Princes picked away at my army.

Now that was Tzeentch, but I imagine Plague bearers can do something similar. And I can't say I'd enjoy the prospect of Khorne having easy access to Str 6 Bloodletters all over the place with cheap heralds.

So eeeeeh, a logical but perhaps unnecessary buff.

Except Heralds currently DO provide a Strength buff, so they are making Letters S6 on the charge.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
In theory what you are suggesting makes a lot of sense. But I'm still hesitant to agree with you simply because from my experience, Daemon Hordes aren't a weak army. Having played against a Tzeentch army which can buy 10 Brimstone horrors for 20pts, with a 4++, and the changeling hidden in the horde to provide the majority of his army with -1 to hit within the massive 18'' diameter aura, I question if this is a buff Daemons need?

I had nothing that could pile on enough wounds to stop the advancing horde of horrors that'd tie up my units while smite and Daemon Princes picked away at my army.

Now that was Tzeentch, but I imagine Plague bearers can do something similar. And I can't say I'd enjoy the prospect of Khorne having easy access to Str 6 Bloodletters all over the place with cheap heralds.

So eeeeeh, a logical but perhaps unnecessary buff.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Except Heralds currently DO provide a Strength buff, so they are making Letters S6 on the charge.

Exactly, and Heralds are much cheaper and easier to fit in a list than a Greater Daemon. So it is currently very easy to get S6 'Letters.
My proposed change would require the purchase of a Greater Daemon to do this. Also, GDs having +1S on themselves might make them a bit better too.
Heralds would then function more to hold the army together (as that really should be their role anyway)

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I'd rather not have my strength buff being killed easily by anti tank weapons, there is a reason i'm considering droping, my KOS from my list it just dies to a single lascannon/missile launcher volley from a dev squad/equivalent.

I mean it may not be the same for every army but I normally just spend command points, to negate the leadership since I will never use counter offence (it does nothing in a mono slaanesh army)

Going from str 3 - 4 means daemonettes can harm toughness 7 on a 5+ instead of a 6+ it is a huge benefit.

 Rydria wrote:
I'd rather not have my strength buff being killed easily by anti tank weapons, there is a reason i'm considering droping, my KOS from my list it just dies to a single lascannon/missile launcher volley from a dev squad/equivalent.

I mean it may not be the same for every army but I normally just spend command points, to negate the leadership since I will never use counter offence (it does nothing in a mono slaanesh army)

Going from str 3 - 4 means daemonettes can harm toughness 7 on a 5+ instead of a 6+ it is a huge benefit.

You're not wrong, but it sucks that Daemons have to basically use all our CPs just to mitigate an oversight in the Morale system.

Are Daemons at LD10 so powerful in AoS? I can't think they are.
Even if all Daemons were LD10 in 40k, big units would still start losing models to Morale
There is literally zero reason to take lesser daemon units above 10 models

Want 20 Daemonettes? Get 2 units of 10
Want 20 Flesh Hounds? Bettter take 4 units of 5

The only "bright" side to this is that we can MSU really well and get a Brigade detachment (+9 CPs) easier than most armies

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You have to migitate taking loses on the large units by using fast chaff to engage shoting units while the horde makes its way up the board, even if the chaff fails get the charge the opponent will likey spend a turn killing them since they are the immediate threat. You can also support the fast chaff with terminators or raptors to soften enemy units. Keep in my mind daemonettes and bloodletters are in incredibly powerful for a horde unit(at least offensively)

 Rydria wrote:
You have to migitate taking loses on the large units by using fast chaff to engage shoting units while the horde makes its way up the board, even if the chaff fails get the charge the opponent will likey spend a turn killing them since they are the immediate threat. You can also support the fast chaff with terminators or raptors to soften enemy units. Keep in my mind daemonettes and bloodletters are in incredibly powerful for a horde unit(at least offensively)

While this is great tactical advice, Nids and Orks do not have to do this, which is my point. Daemons should be a horde army, but due to the lack of "in-built" Morale mitigation like the other horde armies, competitive Daemons in 8E will continue to resort to minimum Brimstone Horror spam and single large Daemons

One way AoS fixes this issue (in general, not specifically regarding daemons), is by giving big units a buff: for each 10 models in the unit, you gain something.
So taking big units comes with the risk of loosing a lot to morale, but also comes with a reward as individual models become stronger. I find that system better overall.
Sadly, not many units got rules like that in 40K, I think in part because characters have buffing auras. And they sometimes give out unit-size bonuses to fearless units (poxwalkers), which in my opinion ruins the concept (because in this case, it's almost always better to take large units).

Your idea is fine. But maybe there's a way to work out something different. Like the herald giving nothing to units with fewer than 5 models, +1S if the unit is 5-15, +1S and something else if it's above 15 etc.

Lesser Daemons in 40K do have this bonus. 'Letters, 'Nettes and PBs all get a bonus for having more than 20 models

The problem is that they will not get to use that bonus past the first turn.

 Galef wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
You have to migitate taking loses on the large units by using fast chaff to engage shoting units while the horde makes its way up the board, even if the chaff fails get the charge the opponent will likey spend a turn killing them since they are the immediate threat. You can also support the fast chaff with terminators or raptors to soften enemy units. Keep in my mind daemonettes and bloodletters are in incredibly powerful for a horde unit(at least offensively)

While this is great tactical advice, Nids and Orks do not have to do this, which is my point. Daemons should be a horde army, but due to the lack of "in-built" Morale mitigation like the other horde armies, competitive Daemons in 8E will continue to resort to minimum Brimstone Horror spam and single large Daemons

Why should every horde army have leadership migitation, this was the problem with previous edition where every army was either ld10 or had a varient of fearless.

Daemons do have a method to migitate losses by using forward units to tie up enemies, once the horde reaches cqc they slaughter everything with insane weight of attacks with high ap. As for the having to burn command points to negate major leadership loses other armies have to spend command points to not get slaughtered by mass charges slaanesh daemons don't since they will always get to attack in sequence, so the 2cp you save not having to do that can go towards leadership tests.

We also have to take into account advantages daemons have such having a unmodifible 5+ saves (Or better in tzeentch/ nurgles case) while nids and orkz have a 6+ or worse which can be made worse (except on elite premium units which are more expensive that lesser daemons)