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So they have moved time forward a few hundred years which has me thinking. How are all the non - immortal or long lived characters alive? Astartes, Daemons, Necrons, Tyranids, Orks and Eldar get away with it. But for the human and tau this is kinda questionable.

Take Shadowsun as a specific case. Tau only live for forty years, although Etherals can live longer if "they're needed" and their bodies continue to live for the Greater Good. But even then, unlike Farsight with his sword, she isn't immortal and I don't think even Puretide lived for 200 years; although Aun Va did since he was alive during the Damocles Gulf Crusade. But then I am not sure if that's just because he is an Etheral.

Theres two possible explanations for Shadowsun being alive:

1. When the warpstorm abated she was the logical choice to command the 4th Sphere Expansion since she commanded the 3rd. This went missing in warp along with all the Tau special characters less Farsight. It then reappears 200 years later on the other side of the galaxy which GW has heavily teased. Although its hard to tell if this is an event that has already happened and we haven't been told or if its an event they are saving for this evolving storyline.

2. Because the Imperiums attention was diverted elsewhere and the Tau could not advance due to the storm they put her in cryo. This is how they explained her being present at the Damocles Gulf 250 years before the current timeline. However, there are a lot of problems with this. The fire in the gulf was put out not long after the war. So there wasn't an obstacle to Tau expansion for very long. Also given how intense the galactic wars became after the warpstorm split the galaxy its hard to imagine Shadowsun being allowed or wanting to spend any time in cryo. They would need her fighting day and night.

She's a REEEEEALLY old vengeful granny.

She passed away and the individual we believe to be shadowsun is actually a decoy running around in her suit

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anywayz, don't tau have some sort of cryogenic technology and actively use it?

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Tau only live for forty years, although Etherals can live longer if "they're needed" and their bodies continue to live for the Greater Good.

This is not true. Tau have a comparable lifespan to your basic humans. Puretide was born in 651.M41 and was described as "elderly" in 731.M41, at which point he was 80 years old. He is still alive but described as "rapidly declining" in 745.M41, at which point he is 94 years old.

The stasis technology used to preserve his students from 745.M41 was a prototype, which suggests that Puretide spent little to no time in stasis. If Tau only live for 40 years then Puretide lived for over twice the natural expected lifespan of his species and for a long time of that he was physically disabled. He was described as being "kept alive" from 713.M41 to 745.M41 but it is not made clear whether that is against the effects of old age or the effects of his injuries.

It mentioned in their 40th ed codex the ~40 year life span if I remember right, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's be pushed around since then.

 n0t_u wrote:
It mentioned in their 40th ed codex the ~40 year life span if I remember right, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's be pushed around since then.

Flicking through I can't find it mentioned anywhere in any of the Codices. There's sections about their language and timekeeping (their years are shorter than human years but that doesn't matter as Puretides life is listed with dates in the Human calendar format).

Might be from the same "source" where the "Tau have worse vision than humans" thing comes from, which doesn't really stand up to logical thought as the Fire Caste evolved as hunters, for whom vision deficiency would have been a sizeable evolutionary deficiency.

Weird I thought I'd read it in there and checking back myself there's nothing.

Since none of it is real it boils down to bad writing and a lack of forethought.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
It mentioned in their 40th ed codex the ~40 year life span if I remember right, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's be pushed around since then.

Flicking through I can't find it mentioned anywhere in any of the Codices. There's sections about their language and timekeeping (their years are shorter than human years but that doesn't matter as Puretides life is listed with dates in the Human calendar format).

Might be from the same "source" where the "Tau have worse vision than humans" thing comes from, which doesn't really stand up to logical thought as the Fire Caste evolved as hunters, for whom vision deficiency would have been a sizeable evolutionary deficiency.

Isn't the source the Primer thing for Guardsmen? So it just mocks all aliens and says stuff like Orks are physically weak.

pm713 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
It mentioned in their 40th ed codex the ~40 year life span if I remember right, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's be pushed around since then.

Flicking through I can't find it mentioned anywhere in any of the Codices. There's sections about their language and timekeeping (their years are shorter than human years but that doesn't matter as Puretides life is listed with dates in the Human calendar format).

Might be from the same "source" where the "Tau have worse vision than humans" thing comes from, which doesn't really stand up to logical thought as the Fire Caste evolved as hunters, for whom vision deficiency would have been a sizeable evolutionary deficiency.

Isn't the source the Primer thing for Guardsmen? So it just mocks all aliens and says stuff like Orks are physically weak.

Yeah, I am pretty sure it is. It sounds exactly like something the Primer would say XD

The Tau lifespan comes from two different sources. One is an article in White Dward #91, in which it is said that Tau lives are 'short' without further specification. The 40 years thing comes from Aun'Shi, who was considered very old at age 40, which came from the 1st Tau codex iirc.
Further hints for their short lifespans can be found in their fast maturation ~10 years where Humans need about ~20 years and the really short time they spent sleeping (only a few hours per day), which is indicative of a much faster metabolism than Humans and therefore shorter lifespans.

More recent GW publications may very well ignore this relatively old and obscure fluff though, so I can see Shadowsun still turning up and everyone conveniently ignoring the issue of her age. In fact, they are already doing just that since she is supposed to be a student of Commander Puretide who died in 731.M41

Of course, a fluffly explanation could be that the Tau, like Humans have life-extending and rejuvenating technology, but that it is reserved only for those Tau that are really important for the Greater Good (such as capable commanders and ethereals)

How about WD at the release of the Tau in 2001 ?

Wouldn't put it past GW to be "creative" whenever some "scribe" deems it neccessary to "make it so"..

They could also have easily jammed Shadowsun back into stasis literally the day after the last book ended and woken her up two days before the fifth sphere expansion.

 koooaei wrote:

Anywayz, don't tau have some sort of cryogenic technology and actively use it?

Yes. But that's only used during space travel(because otherwise the Tau would all die or become old and decrepit before they arrived).

Even if Shadowsun was frozen after each battle and saved for the next, she still should be long dead.

Likely Shadowsun is now like the Dread Pirate Roberts. A successor is chosen in secret and becomes the new Shadowsun when the old one gets old.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

Anywayz, don't tau have some sort of cryogenic technology and actively use it?

Yes. But that's only used during space travel(because otherwise the Tau would all die or become old and decrepit before they arrived).

Even if Shadowsun was frozen after each battle and saved for the next, she still should be long dead.

Likely Shadowsun is now like the Dread Pirate Roberts. A successor is chosen in secret and becomes the new Shadowsun when the old one gets old.

Shadowsun and O'Kais were already frozen from 745.M41 until around 997.M41. Stasis technology is not only used for space travel.

There is no reason she couldn't have been put into stasis until she was required for the next period of expansion. The Tau have more than enough commanders to handle basic consolidation and holding of their gains whilst saving Shadowsun for the next large expansion campaign.

I thought she was frozen in between battles? Like lemartes

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

Anywayz, don't tau have some sort of cryogenic technology and actively use it?

Yes. But that's only used during space travel(because otherwise the Tau would all die or become old and decrepit before they arrived).

Even if Shadowsun was frozen after each battle and saved for the next, she still should be long dead.

Likely Shadowsun is now like the Dread Pirate Roberts. A successor is chosen in secret and becomes the new Shadowsun when the old one gets old.

Shadowsun and O'Kais were already frozen from 745.M41 until around 997.M41. Stasis technology is not only used for space travel.

There is no reason she couldn't have been put into stasis until she was required for the next period of expansion. The Tau have more than enough commanders to handle basic consolidation and holding of their gains whilst saving Shadowsun for the next large expansion campaign.

Even if you save her for important campaigns. She should still be dead.

Tau aren't mature till they're ~15.

If she gets taken out of stasis every 10 years or so, and commands a warzone for ~18 months(because wars last a long time). Between 745M41 and 997M41 she would have spent around ~37 years out of stasis. Even if we assume she was immediately an experienced commander on her 15th birthday, she would be 52 years old. That's like a modern day human living to 150.

But reasonably, she wasn't anything special till she was in her 30s. So she should be around 70 years old. Which is like a modern day human living to 200.

The original Shadowsun has to be long dead, and the current Shadowsun is a successor being disguised as the original.


Unless you are literally only unfreezing her for a few weeks at a time. In which case you aren't really getting much use out of her. No time to appraise her of the tactical situation and for her to adjust to the psychological trauma of waking up in a new time.

Shadowsun was unfrozen in 975.M41 to help fend off a Waagh (where she gained the Shadowsun moniker) and then did nothing until 997.M41 when the third sphere expansion is launched. During those 20 odd years in between it is highly likely she was refrozen.

She was not being routinely frozen and unfrozen for the 200 years until that point as nothing in the fluff indicates such.

Humans, naturally onbly live to be about 80-90, but in 40k wealthy important humans can live CONSIDERABLY longer then that with rejuviant treatments.

Why wouldn't Tau have something similer?

Because again, we've been told a 40 year old Tau is 'ancient' by their standards of measurement.

Presuming Shadowsun isn't just Shadowsun, frozen and re-frozen over and over again forever... I don't think the 'Dread Pirate Roberts' idea really holds, as we know she still hates Farsight on some personal level.

Then again, what if she was the nth iteration of Shadowsun by way of a 'Shadowsun Engram Nanochip' ?

BrianDavion wrote:
Humans, naturally onbly live to be about 80-90, but in 40k wealthy important humans can live CONSIDERABLY longer then that with rejuviant treatments.

Why wouldn't Tau have something similer?

Well, the first reason is because we have zero evidence the Tau have any sort of life extending drugs. And if they did, they would likely find a way to mass produce it and use it on everybody in the Tau Empire, because a 40 year lifespan is pretty crappy for a sentient species that has modern medicine and hygiene.

Humans would live 40-50 years even when we had no real medical services to speak of. With even basic medical advances, humans can live ~90-100 years quite regularly. The Tau just don't have a similar bump as far as we know. 40 years is about their limit.

Actually, one of Farsight's earth caste scientists invented some kind of nanobots that have kept him alive as long as Farsight himself.

Well, the Farsight enclaves aren't exactly all buddy buddy with the rest of the Empire last I heard.

 Grey Templar wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Humans, naturally onbly live to be about 80-90, but in 40k wealthy important humans can live CONSIDERABLY longer then that with rejuviant treatments.

Why wouldn't Tau have something similer?

Well, the first reason is because we have zero evidence the Tau have any sort of life extending drugs. And if they did, they would likely find a way to mass produce it and use it on everybody in the Tau Empire, because a 40 year lifespan is pretty crappy for a sentient species that has modern medicine and hygiene.

Humans would live 40-50 years even when we had no real medical services to speak of. With even basic medical advances, humans can live ~90-100 years quite regularly. The Tau just don't have a similar bump as far as we know. 40 years is about their limit.

except WOULD THEY? if it was an expensive treatment, would the Tau apply it to everyone,?or would they balance it vs a cost benifit anyalsis? in the long run your average firewarrior is pretty replacable. would expensive rejuvait treatments nesscarily be advantagous to the greater good to use?

Right, I think we have enough evidence to conclude that the 40yr Tau lifespan is bunk.

1. It's mentioned in the 1st ed. Tau Codex
2. Lots of Tau we know have lived longer than that
3. There's no mention in later codices, only that their lifespan is 'short' (compared to humans of 40k who can regularly live for hundreds of years with 40k medical tech, even 100 years would be 'short')

 hippyjr wrote:
She passed away and the individual we believe to be shadowsun is actually a decoy running around in her suit

This I really really like. Fits perfectly into my interpretation of the tau as a totalitarian propaganda-state. A hero like Shadowsun would be too useful as a propaganda tool to just let go when she died, so you set up a proxy, conveniently hidden by being inside a recognisable battlesuit.

Until something is directly contradicted it still stands. The 40 year lifespan has not been contradicted, and the later codices still say their lifespan is short.

We also don't have evidence that when the Tau are described as short lived that it means in relation to 40k humans OR the natural human lifespan. Not all humans get Juvnat treatments. It's best to assume they mean natural human lifespan. To conclude that the 40 year lifespan isn't valid anymore is the exact opposite of what you should conclude.

Every single one of those long lived Tau are quite clearly made out to be the exception.

60 years being "elderly" still means their lives are shorter than humans; I know plenty of 60-somethings that healthy enough that I could not possibly consider them "elderly", and that's with modern technology and American "health" "care".

 Grey Templar wrote:
Until something is directly contradicted it still stands. The 40 year lifespan has not been contradicted, and the later codices still say their lifespan is short.

We also don't have evidence that when the Tau are described as short lived that it means in relation to 40k humans OR the natural human lifespan. Not all humans get Juvnat treatments. It's best to assume they mean natural human lifespan. To conclude that the 40 year lifespan isn't valid anymore is the exact opposite of what you should conclude.

Every single one of those long lived Tau are quite clearly made out to be the exception.

Personally i'd say that the quantity of Tau characters that must be over 40 years of age for them to do any of the stuff they're supposed to do is enough of a contradiction of the one mention of them living to 40 in the first codex, but i understand that could be a matter of debate that's not clear-cut enough to settle.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Until something is directly contradicted it still stands. The 40 year lifespan has not been contradicted, and the later codices still say their lifespan is short.

We also don't have evidence that when the Tau are described as short lived that it means in relation to 40k humans OR the natural human lifespan. Not all humans get Juvnat treatments. It's best to assume they mean natural human lifespan. To conclude that the 40 year lifespan isn't valid anymore is the exact opposite of what you should conclude.

Every single one of those long lived Tau are quite clearly made out to be the exception.

Except Aun'Shi, the person who this 40 is elderly initially comes from, is no longer to be stated to be 40 at the time of that battle, or even described as elderly, merely approaching the age at which an Ethereal can choose to retire from frontline service.

His entry has been revised to read:

At the time of the battle that catapulted Aun'Shi to the position of a full-scale hero of the Empire, he was already nearing the age when an Ethereal can choose to retire to a life of contemplation within the Temple-domes of their caste. Due to his many successes, Aun'Shi was entitled to spend his last years on the paradise world of the Au'taal - an honour accorded to only those who have excelled in their drive for the Greater Good. Aun'Shi's last assignment was to bolster a new colony named Kel'tyr.

So, the original Tau codex entry has been replaced and with it the ~40 year lifespan.

EDIT: Also realised I misread the date at which Puretide was injured and described as elderly. I said it was 713.M41, when it is actually 731.M41. So he was 80 at the time of his injury, not 62. That is twice the original 40 year old "elderly" figure of Aun'shi from the 1st Tau codex.

Ethereals have been stated to live much longer then other Tau, so that's not surprising. Their life expectancy is not given.