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since the recent point hikes in 8th edition for vehicles in general but especially for transports... i cant see why i would ever use transports especially the trukk. because i can just use weirdboyz...
there are five main reasons why i think weirdboyz are better than trukks:
1. they're cheaper 2. they net me an HQ slot for possible more CP's 3. chance for first turn charge 4. more versaitaille later in game (teleport a couple of boyz on an objective... teleport other weirdboyz for some mortal wounds sniping) 5. i can set up hordes of units in my very backfield, were they are basically immune from anything but long range shooting ( +48" )
i can see battlewagons used as gunboats with dakka infantry inside... or a chinork flanking the enemy with some nobz or burnaz... but trukks? 12 boyz just arent what they're used to be a couple of editions ago.. especially since for the same point value i could teleport 20 boyz around...
especially point 4 is of some importance... they are just so damn useful... you can chain teleport weirdboyz all over the place where they can in return teleport other units of boyz or gretchins point 3 is a no-brainer... put an weirdboy between 30 boyz and u'll basically garantee to pull of the jump spell (about 92%). the boyz than have a 54% chance of making the 9" charge
any thoughts? what do you guyz think? am i totally wrong?
BONUS
the glorious mathhammer answers if you should reroll all dice for charging or just one^^:
Spoiler:
to get a 9 with 2d6 the probabilty is 10/36. thats a bit less than one third. ere we go lets you reroll the charge distance. keep in mind that a reroll in the rulebook is defined as either rerolling one (or more) or all dice. so should you reroll both or just one die? well it depends...
REROLLING ALL DICE NO MATTER WHAT: probability of result beeing >= 9: 10/36 (charge succeeded on first try)
plus probability of result beeing < 9: 26/36 (charge failed, so reroll all dice) multiplied with probability of result beeing >= 9: 10/36 (charge succeeded on second try)
= 10/36 + 26/36 * 10/36 = 620/1296 = 49 % so its fifty/fifty to make the charge...
but if you consider that the complete reroll is a less than one/third chance... we could simply keep a 5 (if we rolled one) and hope for a 4+ on the reroll of one die,because thats a flat fifty/fifty chance. the probability of getting at least one 4+ when rolling below 9: 17/36
REROLLING ALL DICE ONLY IF NO FIVE WAS ROLLED: probability of result beeing >= 9: 10/36 (charge succeeded on first try)
plus probability of result beeing < 9 but at least one 5+ rolled: 10/36 (charge failed, but reroll only one dice) multiplied with probability of rolling a 4+ with one die: 18/36 (charge succeeded on second try)
plus probability of result beeing < 9 and no 5+ rolled: 16/36 (charge failed, so reroll all dice) multiplied with probability of result beeing >= 9: 10/36 (charge succeeded on second try)
It depends on what do you want to transport. A single mob of boyz is great if teleported but if you want ghaz + boyz you need two weirdboyz for basically a single unit. And they start to become expensive.
Furthemore other units like nobz or tankbustas absolutely need a transport but they don't have much synergy with da jump, especially tankbustas.
Forget battlewagons as gun boats, they hit on 5s and their weapons are way overcosted, a BW is only a delivery transport. If I want ghaz I'd rather take him, 18 boyz, a wagon and a biker mek with KFF (and probably other vehicles) rather than 30 boyz, ghaz and 2 weirdboyz.
That 54% chance of making the charge is not enough for me, unless I play at leat 2 mobs of 30 boyz this way, but I would probably go with 3 psykers and 90 boyz.
One thing people are not remembering is that with Da-Jump, unless you're taking care to circle around the enemy and make every model within 9-10", a lot of models won't have enough movement to get into melee range.
Overwatch. I can charge a unit with my Trukk or 'Wagon, soak up overwatch, and then change with my Boyz so they don't take any overwatch damage before getting to attack first.
Deploying characters. When all your characters and units fit inside your transports, you have far fewer units to deploy. Which means you get to go first.
If you don't reach melee on T1 w/ Da Jump, your Boyz squad gets completely lit up by gunfire. If you're charging on T2 anyways, you might as well let your transports soak up the small arms fire.
Characters providing bonuses to your Boyz don't also teleport w/ Da Jump, meaning that Waaagh! Banner Nobz, Painboyz, Ghazzy ...they'll all be too far away to provide their aura benefits to your Orks. And that (especially the Banners) are a big part of Ork strategy ATM.
If you only want to transport one unit a Weirdboy is fine. Otherwise you'll need transports since you can only cast Da Jump one time per turn
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wtwlf123 wrote: Overwatch. I can charge a unit with my Trukk or 'Wagon, soak up overwatch, and then change with my Boyz so they don't take any overwatch damage before getting to attack first.
Deploying characters. When all your characters and units fit inside your transports, you have far fewer units to deploy. Which means you get to go first.
If you don't reach melee on T1 w/ Da Jump, your Boyz squad gets completely lit up by gunfire. If you're charging on T2 anyways, you might as well let your transports soak up the small arms fire.
Characters providing bonuses to your Boyz don't also teleport w/ Da Jump, meaning that Waaagh! Banner Nobz, Painboyz, Ghazzy ...they'll all be too far away to provide their aura benefits to your Orks. And that (especially the Banners) are a big part of Ork strategy ATM.
This^
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works.
Psychic powers fail or get denied, yes trukks get blown up, but weird boys also get blown up.
In matched play you can only attempt to cast a specific psychic power once per turn, so you get 1 try to cast DA jump per turn regardless of how many weird Boyz you have with the power, and regardless if the first attempt is successful or not.
DA jump is powerful, but it doesn't replace transports.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/08 17:46:53
Also, there's a certain satisfaction of crashing in to a squad and having Da Boyz pile out.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
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The only real flaw of Trukks is they're overpriced. Were they even a little bit cheaper-- ten or fifteen points perhaps-- they'd be a lot more viable as a choppa delivery system. As it is, they're still good at delivering boyz to the fight... they're just really pricy, too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/08 17:57:48
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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My blog
In matched play you can only attempt to cast a specific psychic power once per turn, so you get 1 try to cast DA jump per turn regardless of how many weird Boyz you have with the power, and regardless if the first attempt is successful or not.
The rulebook only says: "A psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once in a turn". Why do you say that in a list with more than a weirdboyz with da jump only one of them can try to manifest the power? The same weirdboy can't try to cast it two times in the same turn, but another psyker should be free to cast whatever he wants.
In matched play you can only attempt to cast a specific psychic power once per turn, so you get 1 try to cast DA jump per turn regardless of how many weird Boyz you have with the power, and regardless if the first attempt is successful or not.
The rulebook only says: "A psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once in a turn". Why do you say that in a list with more than a weirdboyz with da jump only one of them can try to manifest the power? The same weirdboy can't try to cast it two times in the same turn, but another psyker should be free to cast whatever he wants.
It's in the Matched play rules. If you aren't playing Match, you can do it.
Yeah only one spell per psyker per phase. But even without that, vehicles are wound soaks as you go up the board and if they survive than they can charge in to soak the overwatch!
I'm not giving up on trukk boyz, even if not competitive. It could be a case of simply having enough of them to overwhelm whatever stands on the front line.
My impression is that trukk boyz don't cut it anymore.
While the boyz are roughly the same as before (you have more of them survive, but they have less attacks), the klaw got a lot worse as it misses a lot more, lost one attack, got worse at wounding high toughness models and no longer ignores 2+/3+ armor.
11 Boyz+Nob not longer have the punch the used to have, and whenever you buy two trukks you might as well buy a battlewagon instead.
Since the klaw no longer does most of the damage, I see little reason so field multiple small units of boyz.
The trukk should be priced as a budget alternative of the battlewagon, currently it's simply half a battlewagon with slightly worse stats.
Since you can cast Da Jump only once per turn, it will not be able to replace an entire army of trukks, but any army that ran one or two trukks to deploy boyz or manz or tankbustaz wherever they were needed will now field a weirdboy instead.
Is an army fielding all trukks terrible now? I don't thinks so, trukks did pretty well in my games, they do their job pretty well. I just think those armies would get better when they replace all their trukks with battle wagons.
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I use Transports stubbornly because I've converted 5 of the 6 trukks I use. But when a trukk is about the same pts cost as taking 12 more orkz boyz it makes me reconsider my choices this edition.
battlewagons with a deffrolla and no guns rushing up and eating the overwatch is great and can get the 5++ from a kff mek on a bike keeping up and between them.
trukks are less useful but in small games can be tougher to deal with. also for a fast way to get a group of nobzx into melee behind a few battlewagons which block LOS to it they work
As pointed out on ATT, there's little of anything in the Orks list that can even aim at a Ghostkeel when it has it's stealth drones, as just about everything 12" away or more would effectively have BS 7+. A Trukk would allow you to drive inside of that standoff range the Keel will have on you and dakka it
- Imperial Fists - 7290
- Deathskulls - 6150
7000 
3000 pts
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