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In theory, having the most models within 3' of an objective makes sense. However with super cheap and spammy units like Conscripts, Brimstones, Razorwing flocks and other similar units in existence, it makes it impossible for certain play styles to compete in objective based games

So I propose that the player with the highest PL within 3" of an objective claims it. This is the total of all nearby units, not just the single highest PL unit
What are the potential issues with this? Does it skew it too far in the direction of single model units like Knights?

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Not to mention, you should do your best to avoid using PL in a points game.

They don't match up

Its a bad idea because that very mechanic is helping to bring those cheap troop choice infantry units into dominance again. So many complaints for so long in 7th were about the "troop tax" and how the game was all about super weapons instead of the rank and file.

# of bodies along with lower cost troops and higher cost everything else is what fixes that.

 Lance845 wrote:
Its a bad idea because that very mechanic is helping to bring those cheap troop choice infantry units into dominance again. So many complaints for so long in 7th were about the "troop tax" and how the game was all about super weapons instead of the rank and file.

# of bodies along with lower cost troops and higher cost everything else is what fixes that.

Yes, how dare people want to bring the cool stuff in their army rather than the boring stuff!

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Its a bad idea because that very mechanic is helping to bring those cheap troop choice infantry units into dominance again. So many complaints for so long in 7th were about the "troop tax" and how the game was all about super weapons instead of the rank and file.

# of bodies along with lower cost troops and higher cost everything else is what fixes that.

Yes, how dare people want to bring the cool stuff in their army rather than the boring stuff!

Subjective. Tyranid warriors and hormagaunts are cool. So are tau breaches jumping out of a devilish and blasting people with their pulse shot guns. As are necron warriors and immortals marching up the field in their undying legions.

You loose all the flavor of the armies when its nothing but doomsday arks, exocrines, and storm surges. Or did you think it was cool to play with or against riptide wings, or a nid flying circus?

Don't like this idea. That's the reason to take troops. To bauble wrap and score points.

Yeah, not a fan. The system at the moment is fine with me: either take lots of models and hope enough survive at the end of the game for you to still be holding the objective or take lots of fire power and hope you can blast the conscript hordes off of the objective (I'm personally a fan of the latter tactic and it has worked for me so far).

How does a Grey Knight army have lots of models to rival that of Conscripts? Their cheapest Troops are more expensive than that of most other armies completely. Not to mention other elite, low model armies like Deathwatch, Harlequins and Knights.

I think the principle of this is fine to me. However, I'd rather change it to the points cost of the unit at it's current point. ie, if there's unit of Conscripts and a unit of Terminators. The Terminators have lost all but two men, and the Conscripts have ten left. The points of those models (plus all wargear and suchlike) is added up, and the side with the highest total wins out. That way, it can be altered as the game goes on (the Conscripts could kill one of the Grey Knights, or vice versa).

The issue with cheap troops is:
A - not everyone has access to them, especially in a mono-build list (sure, you can say for example that "Imperial players are just handicapping themselves at that point by refusing to take certain options", but an army shouldn't have to take something outside of it's main faction - such as Conscripts in a Knight army).

B - many elite armies might simply not possess the firepower to remove that many bodies from the table.

At least this allows for elite forces to use their increased cost to some advantage.

Its within 3 inches. If 5 grey knights surround the center of the objective marker spaced evenly the conscripts cannot get within 3 inches without charging into melee with the grey knight. Who's gonna win that?

I don't really see this as a big issue; if you're facing a lot of spammy units, then take stuff that can dish out lots of Damage 1 hits, and/or park things on objectives that physically prevent a unit from getting onto them as well. 3" isn't a huge radius, most single squads should be able to encircle that such that no-one else can get on it without clearing them first.

Power Rating would be a poor "fix" anyway; Guiliman for example has a huge Power Rating but if he's contesting an objective against an enormous horde there's no guarantee it won't bring him down by numbers alone.


I think the best way to handle contested objectives would be to (with player agreement) play a "sudden death" turn where only units within say… 12" of the contested objectives get to move, shoot etc. But only if you feel that those objectives weren't conclusive enough.

But for matched play? I think it's fine as it is; part of your strategy has to be on denying objectives and being able to capture them yourself, if you can't do those things then you're not going to do well. The whole point of the various scenario types is after all to take your army out of its comfort zone, and force you to build something that can handle any eventuality.

 Lance845 wrote:
Its within 3 inches. If 5 grey knights surround the center of the objective marker spaced evenly the conscripts cannot get within 3 inches without charging into melee with the grey knight. Who's gonna win that?

But let's take it down to a size manageable for 3 inches - say, a single Terminator, versus three Conscripts?

In models, sure, the Conscripts are more numerous, but the single Terminator is worth several times their value. Hence, the Terminator should get the point due to value.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Its within 3 inches. If 5 grey knights surround the center of the objective marker spaced evenly the conscripts cannot get within 3 inches without charging into melee with the grey knight. Who's gonna win that?

But let's take it down to a size manageable for 3 inches - say, a single Terminator, versus three Conscripts?

In models, sure, the Conscripts are more numerous, but the single Terminator is worth several times their value. Hence, the Terminator should get the point due to value.

Again. I disagree. I like that this promotes both bringing troop choices and larger units over msu. You would be shifting the game towards promoting a bunch of imperial knights again.

The problem is this encourages the following:
1) Big High PL Models like a Knight. Let's see you beat my Knight in PL with any infantry unit in the game
2) Trying to cram just one model of as many units into the 3" space rather than just models. Why put one unit of 5 Tactical Marines within control distance when I get more control with one model from 5 different units within the distance?

Yeah, I guess you guys are right. This change would skew to the opposite end. Rather than having larger armies, people would focus on fewer, but higher powered models

I just hate the idea of facing an army with 100+ chaff models. It's boring, frustratingly time consuming and it's "pay to win".
There needs to be a middle ground

What if we used PL, but granted additional "points" for outnumbering your opponent? Let's say you count as having 2PL more if you have double models, 3PL if you triple and so on
So in the case of a Knight vs 20 Conscripts, those 20 outnumber the Knight by 20x, so they get 20 PL+ their own for claiming the objective
However, 5 Termies would only be outnumbered by 4x, so the Conscripts would only get +4PL
Too complicated?

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