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Hey, currently designing a TAC list focused on countering the soon-to-be-everywhere Storm Raven spam. So far my initial ideas are 6-10 Primaris psykers in a guard blob and Celestine. As I see it the speed and short range of rapid fire hurricane bolters leaves the ravens open to mass smite, although allying in screening scions would stop me dead in the water.

My question is, are there any other viable units that are effective at taking out Ravens or are they virtually untouchable?

I'm building a comp necron list with a pylon, have enough dakka to take down 2 a turn minimum, with refilling the seize roll. If I get first turn it's very good for me, and I'm hardy enough so that if the pylon takes abuse it regens 2D3 wounds a turn.

BS3+ Lascannons work fine. BS2+ Lascannons work even better. The Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought is a solid pick, as is the Xiphon Interceptor.

Scion or Elysian drop squads with plasma work very well -- they're more likely to overheat but they still expect to make their points back in a single volley against a Stormraven. And yeah, Smite is pretty good.

Stalkers.

Martel732 wrote:
Stalkers.

I don't think this is good advice. Stalkers are not very good at killing T7 flyers. At BS3+, an icarus stormcannon is about the same as a lascannon against a Stormraven. If you're otherwise tempted by this, I'd suggest just taking a twin lascannon Razorback instead. It's a little more fragile but it's not a waste of points if your opponent only brings ground-based vehicles. The main advantage of Stalkers is just that they're very durable, but they don't shoot very well and so if the rest of your list is more fragile then that's the stuff that's going to get killed off.

Maelstrom is the best counter to stormraven spam. Other than that: Loaded dice.

My Stormraven got shot down within a single turn by the cross fire of 2 Onager Dunecrawlers near Belisarius Cawl with their Neutron Lasers. I don't think they are that kind of tough to take down, it just need proper buff to do it quickly.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
My Stormraven got shot down within a single turn by the cross fire of 2 Onager Dunecrawlers near Belisarius Cawl with their Neutron Lasers. I don't think they are that kind of tough to take down, it just need proper buff to do it quickly.

What did the other 5 do?

Magnus and a few units of Rapier Laser Destroyers? Magnus casts Warptime on himself to catapult towards the nearest Stormraven, he casts Prescience on one of the Laser Destroyers and Smite on the nearest Stormraven. Come the shooting phase, all the Rapiers open fire on the Stormraven furthest away from Magnus: the unit with Prescience doing over 9 wounds (roughly) and those without doing 7 wounds. Then in the charge phase Magnus charges the nearest Stormraven and destroys it (this isn't negotiable).

You could be destroying 2 SR per turn.

I'm more concerned about taking on SR spamming using non-forgeworld models. I like the Magnus option though, but my issues are first turn and stormstrike m. The more I think about it, the more I realize how easy it is for the SR player to counter the counter, screening conscript blob with move-move-move, C. Assassin to reduce smite etc.

Dark Reapers are my answer. Ignore the -1 To Hit, and their guns are S8 AP-2 D3 single shots.

There's also the Crimson Hunter or Razorwing if you want AA flyers.

Storm raven spam is tough to counter unles you seize

Under ITC, that's a bit easier, but a raven list going first will kill enough of your counters so as to make it hard for your remaining shots to down them

the biggest issue is SR spam list most of times start 1st (at least under normal rules, in ITC is another story), so it's allowed to destroy or heavily cripple your counters.

Going first is big for low drop high firepower lists

stratigo wrote:
Going first is big for low drop high firepower lists

that's why that list is a pain in the ass.

pismakron wrote:
Maelstrom is the best counter to stormraven spam. Other than that: Loaded dice.

Quoted for truth. I'm personally more a fan of the former than the latter

stratigo wrote:
Storm raven spam is tough to counter unles you seize

Under ITC, that's a bit easier, but a raven list going first will kill enough of your counters so as to make it hard for your remaining shots to down them

It is actually almost as easy to seize even when following the rulebook. Just remember to use a command reroll when trying to seize and you will succeed 30.5% of the time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blackmage wrote:
the biggest issue is SR spam list most of times start 1st (at least under normal rules, in ITC is another story), so it's allowed to destroy or heavily cripple your counters.

Always remember to use a command-reroll when trying to seize the initiative.

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-46-an-unkindness-of-storm-ravens_108853

Good review on the storm raven list. They do need first turn, but they can still win without it.

The list that won Caledonian Revolution '17 only had 4 Storm Ravens; was two Storm Hawks and two Storm Talons besides. Eight acolytes and Kayvaan Shrike.

Bring dedicated AT - Stalkers are decent/sub-par, but real AT is more effective. Storm Raven's wounds can absorb an annoying amount of autocannon-type shooting (which is what most AA comprises of). For ~25pts more you can get a lascannon predator, for example. 4x lascannon shots are better than the two Icarus Autocannons the Stalker gets - the low AP, 4+ to wound, and lack of greater ROF means a Stalker's damage output isn't great.

Don't know if a 'smite death star blob' is the answer, though. AM has much better tools than that - very easy to get massed lascannons or the like. That plus infantry blobs to deny them areas of movement should be more effective.

GhostRecon wrote:
The list that won Caledonian Revolution '17 only had 4 Storm Ravens; was two Storm Hawks and two Storm Talons besides. Eight acolytes and Kayvaan Shrike.

Bring dedicated AT - Stalkers are decent/sub-par, but real AT is more effective. Storm Raven's wounds can absorb an annoying amount of autocannon-type shooting (which is what most AA comprises of). For ~25pts more you can get a lascannon predator, for example. 4x lascannon shots are better than the two Icarus Autocannons the Stalker gets - the low AP, 4+ to wound, and lack of greater ROF means a Stalker's damage output isn't great.

Don't know if a 'smite death star blob' is the answer, though. AM has much better tools than that - very easy to get massed lascannons or the like. That plus infantry blobs to deny them areas of movement should be more effective.

The -1 to hit really puts a dint into HWS with lascannons. You'd need 18 or so to be mildly effective, but then he's taking first turn. As it stands smite is the only answer.

 iddy00711 wrote:

GhostRecon wrote:
The list that won Caledonian Revolution '17 only had 4 Storm Ravens; was two Storm Hawks and two Storm Talons besides. Eight acolytes and Kayvaan Shrike.

Bring dedicated AT - Stalkers are decent/sub-par, but real AT is more effective. Storm Raven's wounds can absorb an annoying amount of autocannon-type shooting (which is what most AA comprises of). For ~25pts more you can get a lascannon predator, for example. 4x lascannon shots are better than the two Icarus Autocannons the Stalker gets - the low AP, 4+ to wound, and lack of greater ROF means a Stalker's damage output isn't great.

Don't know if a 'smite death star blob' is the answer, though. AM has much better tools than that - very easy to get massed lascannons or the like. That plus infantry blobs to deny them areas of movement should be more effective.

The -1 to hit really puts a dint into HWS with lascannons. You'd need 18 or so to be mildly effective, but then he's taking first turn. As it stands smite is the only answer.

Re-rolls help.

It's expensive, but I just did well against some fliers with Centurion Devastators next to Guilliman for the total re-rolls. Shot down a plane in a single turn with 6 Lascannon shots.

I just asked this on the Ork anti-raven thread,
but as I have chaos too (Emp's Chidren)...

Fire Storm Redoubt
be a usefull anti-air choice?
300ish points for 8 lascannons

or is a couple of Chaos Las-Predators a better choice?

Mechanicum Onagars could be good.

 NOLA Chris wrote:
I just asked this on the Ork anti-raven thread,
but as I have chaos too (Emp's Chidren)...

Fire Storm Redoubt
be a usefull anti-air choice?
300ish points for 8 lascannons

or is a couple of Chaos Las-Predators a better choice?

The problem with lascannons against planes is the -1 to hit with the low rate of fire. You either need to bring lots of them (super expensive) or simulate having lots of them with re-rolls.

Quick math says 8 of them with BS 3+ should do about 7-8 wounds a turn to a flier, so 2 turns to kill the medium and heavy ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PUFNSTUF wrote:
Mechanicum Onagars could be good.

So I actually ran the math on these and I remember it coming up terrible. Like, 3-4 wounds per turn. I can do it again, but the problem is most of their guns don't wound T7 very well.

Audustum wrote:

 iddy00711 wrote:

GhostRecon wrote:
The list that won Caledonian Revolution '17 only had 4 Storm Ravens; was two Storm Hawks and two Storm Talons besides. Eight acolytes and Kayvaan Shrike.

Bring dedicated AT - Stalkers are decent/sub-par, but real AT is more effective. Storm Raven's wounds can absorb an annoying amount of autocannon-type shooting (which is what most AA comprises of). For ~25pts more you can get a lascannon predator, for example. 4x lascannon shots are better than the two Icarus Autocannons the Stalker gets - the low AP, 4+ to wound, and lack of greater ROF means a Stalker's damage output isn't great.

Don't know if a 'smite death star blob' is the answer, though. AM has much better tools than that - very easy to get massed lascannons or the like. That plus infantry blobs to deny them areas of movement should be more effective.

The -1 to hit really puts a dint into HWS with lascannons. You'd need 18 or so to be mildly effective, but then he's taking first turn. As it stands smite is the only answer.

Re-rolls help.

It's expensive, but I just did well against some fliers with Centurion Devastators next to Guilliman for the total re-rolls. Shot down a plane in a single turn with 6 Lascannon shots.

I actually took Guilliman with las-cannon devs in a guard blob list to the Caledonian. I'd suggest using a transport to block LOS rather than hiding them behind cover.

Has anyone considered the Sicaran battle tank? Has a pretty good weapon versus fliers.

Gibs55 wrote:
Has anyone considered the Sicaran battle tank? Has a pretty good weapon versus fliers.

I believe OP was looking for non-Forgeworld options. I think Forgeworld has an answer to ever over powered GW model.

 iddy00711 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 iddy00711 wrote:

GhostRecon wrote:
The list that won Caledonian Revolution '17 only had 4 Storm Ravens; was two Storm Hawks and two Storm Talons besides. Eight acolytes and Kayvaan Shrike.

Bring dedicated AT - Stalkers are decent/sub-par, but real AT is more effective. Storm Raven's wounds can absorb an annoying amount of autocannon-type shooting (which is what most AA comprises of). For ~25pts more you can get a lascannon predator, for example. 4x lascannon shots are better than the two Icarus Autocannons the Stalker gets - the low AP, 4+ to wound, and lack of greater ROF means a Stalker's damage output isn't great.

Don't know if a 'smite death star blob' is the answer, though. AM has much better tools than that - very easy to get massed lascannons or the like. That plus infantry blobs to deny them areas of movement should be more effective.

The -1 to hit really puts a dint into HWS with lascannons. You'd need 18 or so to be mildly effective, but then he's taking first turn. As it stands smite is the only answer.

Re-rolls help.

It's expensive, but I just did well against some fliers with Centurion Devastators next to Guilliman for the total re-rolls. Shot down a plane in a single turn with 6 Lascannon shots.

I actually took Guilliman with las-cannon devs in a guard blob list to the Caledonian. I'd suggest using a transport to block LOS rather than hiding them behind cover.

That's not a bad idea. Maybe a Drop Pod?

I went with the Centurions myself. Since they can move and fire without penalty and are infantry, it let me walk through Ruins walls to shoot things while denying LoS the turn prior.

They ended up getting wrecked after 2 Militarum Tempestus Command Squads came down and Rapid Fire Plasma'd them into oblivion. Did good work before that though.

 iddy00711 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 iddy00711 wrote:

GhostRecon wrote:
The list that won Caledonian Revolution '17 only had 4 Storm Ravens; was two Storm Hawks and two Storm Talons besides. Eight acolytes and Kayvaan Shrike.

Bring dedicated AT - Stalkers are decent/sub-par, but real AT is more effective. Storm Raven's wounds can absorb an annoying amount of autocannon-type shooting (which is what most AA comprises of). For ~25pts more you can get a lascannon predator, for example. 4x lascannon shots are better than the two Icarus Autocannons the Stalker gets - the low AP, 4+ to wound, and lack of greater ROF means a Stalker's damage output isn't great.

Don't know if a 'smite death star blob' is the answer, though. AM has much better tools than that - very easy to get massed lascannons or the like. That plus infantry blobs to deny them areas of movement should be more effective.

The -1 to hit really puts a dint into HWS with lascannons. You'd need 18 or so to be mildly effective, but then he's taking first turn. As it stands smite is the only answer.

Re-rolls help.

It's expensive, but I just did well against some fliers with Centurion Devastators next to Guilliman for the total re-rolls. Shot down a plane in a single turn with 6 Lascannon shots.

I actually took Guilliman with las-cannon devs in a guard blob list to the Caledonian. I'd suggest using a transport to block LOS rather than hiding them behind cover.

Orders for HWTs, Master of Ordnance for Manticores/Basilisks (very situational I know, due to range limitations), Tank Commanders/Pask (with or w/o 'normal' Russes) using battle cannons or Punisher Gatling cannons, Hellhounds (Inferno cannon is actually pretty good against T7 3+) are other AM-centric options - outside of Scion/Vet squads sporting Plasma Guns/Meltaguns.

dark angels with 4++ invo bubble - reduce the ravens meltas a great deal. With 4 las predators.

Tau drone spam ensures they wont kill anything but drones - then return fire will murder the ravens.

Space marine ancient gives you 50% return fire on any las cannon marines they kill. With Gulliman - it's twice as effective.

Reserving vanguard vets and Librarians takes away their alpha strike. Then hit with relic blades?


Just taking MSU Venoms with darklance and blaster trueborns have -1 o hit and invo saves and handle being alphaed pretty well.

Tau commander spam.

Space marine dread spam with double auto cannons or las autocannon.

A few space marine command squads on bikes is a tough nutt to crack too.

Wraithgard spam in wave serpents probably would do well to.