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2017/07/19 00:47:05
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
With that being said, I feel as if generation Y would most likely be draft dodgers/rebellious being that they grew up with
all this technology like social media, text-messaging, IPhones, instant entertainment (Youtube, Netflix), celebrity influences, all of which give them this rebellious mentality.
In other words, a lot of today's millennials from what I can gather from my own personal experiences have gone really soft, with a few sprinkles of stubbornness and self-entitlement.
An example of this would be towards the end of Vietnam in 1973, when a lot of drafted privates (who were probably draft dodgers from the start) began turning on their sergeants and superiors. Yet there were still some who were willing to honorably serve their country.
Fast forwards forty or so years and compare that generation to this one.
What do you guys think?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/20 12:50:14
"What does not kill me is not trying hard enough." _Roboute Guilliman
"Fate is for fools. It is what the weak blame for their failures." _Fabius Bile
2017/07/19 01:09:59
Subject: Re:Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
I think that sounds a great deal like the 'this generation is both worse than and has it easier than an older generation' shtick we've been hearing since...forever.
2017/07/19 01:13:55
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
I don't think we would have that problem. Your assumption is that military enlistment is going to be a problem when/if WW3 happens and that a draft will be necessary. Sure enlistment has gone down but that's because we don't live in a time of megalomaniacal regimes like we had back in WWII. Vietnam was a mistake on part of our government and as such military training and selection has become more stringent.
We also have more technological advances that could aid us if such a thing were to occur.
However, the problem with your assessment is the mindset of millennials. What made many dodge the Vietnam draft was that the people knew there was nothing patriotic about going to war with a country experiencing its own civil war. Where as the patriotism was much higher during WWII because it was a global threat to the safety of America and their way of life.
If WW3 were to happen, and America was a target, rest assured many people would take arms, regardless of their ability to enlist. Even millennials. They have to protect their iPods afterall.
But in anycase, the closest threat we currently have to our national security is North Korea, and even their only ally, China, is telling them they're going too far.
2017/07/19 01:27:35
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
A very large portion of the military right now are already millennials - that should tell you something. There have been multiple Medal of Honor recipients who are millennials. Most of the anti-millennial criticism is pure golden age fallacy.
Hordini wrote: A very large portion of the military right now are already millennials - that should tell you something. There have been multiple Medal of Honor recipients who are millennials. Most of the anti-millennial criticism is pure golden age fallacy.
Well said - and exalted!
-
2017/07/19 02:09:50
Subject: Re:Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
Spinner wrote: I think that sounds a great deal like the 'this generation is both worse than and has it easier than an older generation' shtick we've been hearing since...forever.
Hordini wrote: A very large portion of the military right now are already millennials - that should tell you something. There have been multiple Medal of Honor recipients who are millennials. Most of the anti-millennial criticism is pure golden age fallacy.
Damm youth people, they always think they are entitled to everything!
Back in my day you worked in your farm with your own hands and a loyal mule! Now they come with those... tractors... urgh. That isn't real work! Real men do with pure ANIMAL force!
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/07/19 02:34:00
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
With that being said, I feel as if generation Y would most likely be draft dodgers/rebellious being that they grew up with
all this technology like social media, text-messaging, IPhones, instant entertainment (Youtube, Netflix), celebrity influences, all of which give them this rebellious mentality.
In other words, a lot of today's millennials from what I can gather from my own personal experiences have gone really soft, with a few sprinkles of stubbornness and self-entitlement.
And there it is. Right there. The bait.
An example of this would be towards the end of Vietnam in 1973, when a lot of drafted privates (who were probably draft dodgers from the start) began turning on their sergeants and superiors. Yet there were still some who were willing to honorably serve their country.
Fast forwards forty or so years and compare that generation to this one.
What do you guys think?
I think that you're a member of a political party here in the US who loves to complain about "snowflakes" and how young people are ruining this country, but voted for a draft dodging grifter who avoided service over a "bone spur" in his foot and is currently serving as a hand puppet for a foreign government.
2017/07/19 02:43:14
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
- Socrates (469–399 B.C.)
Galas wrote: Damm youth people, they always think they are entitled to everything!
Back in my day you worked in your farm with your own hands and a loyal mule! Now they come with those... tractors... urgh. That isn't real work! Real men do with pure ANIMAL force!
Back in my day, we didn't have boats yet, so we had to swim across the Atlantic to fight the Kaiser! With our fists!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/19 02:44:46
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2017/07/19 02:53:59
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
how is being medically unfit a generation problem? a good portion of that percentage are probably those old guys who fought in viet nam, or dodged the draft. another good percentage are probably kids to young to serve. It's all speculation to the numbers til the source is cited and we can see the break down of numbers.
My friend couldn't join because he had asthma, a common problem in the US, damn that social media that didn't exist when I joined and he couldn't, Youtube gave him asthma before Youtube existed.
I wonder if it's connected, no universal health care option, and 71% of americans with medical problems?
2017/07/19 04:59:38
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
sirlynchmob wrote: I wonder if it's connected, no universal health care option, and 71% of americans with medical problems?
At least it doesn't help. Add in how minimum wage jobs don't really allow you to buy healthy food or go to the gym all too often and we might have something to look at. But basic training is supposed to help those who aren't totally crippled get into some sort of shape.
Not that a draft would be necessary, ofc. There's plenty of armed rednecks in pickup trucks that call themself "militia", they should be able to handle things while you start mobilizing the wider populace. It'll probably all be over in a few days one way or other.
2017/07/19 05:02:50
Subject: Re:Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
Correct answer: who cares. WWIII will be over about 45 minutes after it starts, and there will be no surviving government to organize a draft.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2017/07/19 05:28:29
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
The reason a very large portion of the population can't meet military enrolment standards isn't due to the fitness of the population. Sure, plenty more people today are fat, but in the past you had mass malnutrition (and infant malnutrition causing limited development, which can't be fixed with a better diet now). But standards for military enrolment were much lower. You need millions of new draftees, you accept lower physical standards or you don't get to your total.
These days with a much bigger population and a much smaller standing army, relatively speaking, the US can enforce higher standards. Other countries around the world have even tighter enrollment standards, because we have even smaller armies.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2017/07/19 05:35:28
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
I think Millennials are probably pretty fething tired of hearing how spoiled they are because they have smart phones by the generation that could afford college with part time jobs, had great union jobs and could own homes and raise families by their mid-twenties, who then torched the economy after they got theirs.
I think the crappiest generations should stop complaining about the kids that are cleaning up all their messes while enjoying so much less opportunity.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2017/07/19 06:14:58
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
It's also worthwhile to remember that the Rangers of the 2nd Ranger Battalion in Saving Private Ryan, the paratroopers of the 101st Airborne Division in Band of Brothers, or the Sturmtruppen in Stalingrad were not indicative of the quality and training of the typical infantryman during WWII. The above examples would consist almost entirely of volunteer soldiers with training, motivation, and investment roughly equivalent to our volunteer soldiers today. As for how a modern day conscript from a modern and well-developed country that nonetheless full-scale war is a _distinct_ possibility results are a mixed bag. A soldier I spoke to who served alongside the ROKA and went on a liaison mission with the IDF noted that the typical improvements in training such as using human-shaped targets rather than the concentric circle of yore and use of computer simulations has dramatically increased the effectiveness of the bog-standard conscript, things like draft-dodging and hazing remain issues. He had even told me while he had very positive experiences with paratroopers, tankers, and Air Force pilots, he was less than impressed with IDF conscripts who were serving at checkpoints, whom in his words, behaved no better than eighteen-year-olds given guns, life-and-death authority, and little to no adult supervision* anywhere else in the world.
*This is owed to the fact that unlike the US or British Army only a small number of soldiers remain as careers NCOs, so the "squad leader" is typically about the age of the rest of his squad.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/19 06:18:24
2017/07/19 06:40:15
Subject: Re:Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
I'm gonna sidestep the youth bashing and also the obvious reasons why the concept of the draft is fundamentally flawed.
I'm almost 10 years beyond selective service's upper bounds. Were there a genuine assault on our territory, I would gladly volunteer to be on the frontline should there be something resembling convincing danger to my loved ones.
I'm about 40 lbs overweight. Roughly 80% of my calories are booze. .It's not healthy, but I can lose that in a month and dying doesn't exactly bother me. Now consider there's likely a nontrivial number of people like me.
I think Millennials are probably pretty fething tired of hearing how spoiled they are because they have smart phones by the generation that could afford college with part time jobs, had great union jobs and could own homes and raise families by their mid-twenties, who then torched the economy after they got theirs.
I think the crappiest generations should stop complaining about the kids that are cleaning up all their messes while enjoying so much less opportunity.
Whenever it tired me out, I just sit and think "Go on and say whatever you want boomers. Me and mine didn't produce and market the worst Star Trek film ever made. We were still toddlers in 89"
I think Millennials are probably pretty fething tired of hearing how spoiled they are because they have smart phones by the generation that could afford college with part time jobs, had great union jobs and could own homes and raise families by their mid-twenties, who then torched the economy after they got theirs.
I think the crappiest generations should stop complaining about the kids that are cleaning up all their messes while enjoying so much less opportunity.
Whenever it tired me out, I just sit and think "Go on and say whatever you want boomers. Me and mine didn't produce and market the worst Star Trek film ever made. We were still toddlers in 89"
I mean, all things considered, I thought that the concept of the generation wars was simply a smokescreen generated by Goldman Sachs analysts to create false barriers between people who should by any other estimation ultimately support the same political policies, but now as I read your post, I'm unprepared to refute it.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
There might be a good amount of draft dodging. But it wouldn't be very successful since everybody has an online footprint. You'd probably have a lot of people getting found because they kept posting on facebook.
But it's highly unlike a draft would ever be necessary even if we got involved in a war with another major power(assuming it doesn't escalate to nukes everywhere). If we got in a world war with, say, China, you'd still probably see enough volunteers to keep the army supplied for a long time. Especially since the armed forces are no longer men only.
I do think the selective service should change to no longer be men only.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
So I'm 33. I giggle basically constantly, because half my friends are borderline violent in their protestations that they're not millennials. The other half of them are borderline violent in their insistence that they're not like the first half because they believe whatever the opposite of the first half believe. I believe in in Bacchus, because he's covered by none of the above, and he's more real at this moment than the sky wizards that work for Gold-mansacks.
To be fair, I find there's a general conflation of the tail end of Gen X, and the Centennials (Gen Z) with Millennials. People just like bitching about people younger than them sometimes, and vice versa.
I do think the selective service should change to no longer be men only.
I don't. Not knowing what I know about the gak holes of the rest of the world. It's not cheery for a European descended male, but you're talking about delivering a trophy piece over to particular sections of the world.
If you want to continue making them noncombatants or something, that's fine. Don't ruin people's lives any more than the fundamental concept of war does on even terms, at least.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordofHats wrote: To be fair, I find there's a general conflation of the tail end of Gen X, and the Centennials (Gen Z) with Millennials. People just like bitching about people younger than them sometimes, and vice versa.
And on that same vein, I get along with the dude that sits next to me at work who's in his 50s and the woman who sits behind me who's in her 40s far better than I do any of the people who I work with that're in their 30s or even younger.
Don't get me wrong, I'm literally just bitching about people younger than me.
But at the same time that doesn't make it any less true. We talk about work habits. Sometimes personal interests. Music we like. The fact that we actually cook our own food and exchanging recipes we have. It's not something the younglings do. And I talk to them. One of them is a Keyboard collector. I.. I'm going to not comment on that. The other one doesn't really talk about anything other than his divorce.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/19 07:00:18
LordofHats wrote: To be fair, I find there's a general conflation of the tail end of Gen X, and the Centennials (Gen Z) with Millennials. People just like bitching about people younger than them sometimes, and vice versa.
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with bitching about young people because holy crap they are annoying. It's just that we shouldn't trick ourselves that other generations were any less annoying when they were young.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2017/07/19 07:18:59
Subject: Could today's millennials handle a draft if WW3 were to happen?
You'd get lots of conscientious objectors, certainly, a good thing, but it's worth noting that the millennials of, for instance, Israel, Denmark, and Finland cope just fine.
Not that I want treat the OP with any seriousness when it's just 'kids have got it so easy! Wah wah wah! When I was young all I had was a wooden train and three hand-me-down books! And the ability to buy property and support myself through university without loans! But these pampered kids have it all!'.
Nonsense.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/19 07:19:19