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So I see the Dark Angles, Blood Angels, and now the Salamanders have celebrated newly released preview details with a Tactica thread... I don't think it's too soon for the Sons of the Khan to do the same.

Here's what we know (I think)...

Per Warhammer Community:

Chapter Tactics - Lightning Assault: White Scars add 2" to advance rolls (bikes therefore advance 8"); White Scars can charge after fall back
Kor'Sarro Khan: gives +1S to units that charge (is there a range limitation on this?)
Stratagem - Born in the Saddle: White Scars bikers can advance, shoot, and charge (anyone know the CP cost on this?)
Warlord Trait - Deadly Hunter: warlord does mortal wounds on the charge
Relic - Mantle of the Stormseer: White Scars psykers more easily "cast Smite and unleash the power of the storm" (anybody know more?)

Clearly we want to charge, charge, and charge some more, preferably by bike. Beyond that, what looks favorable? I'm wondering about unit size and loadout, especially for bikers, how to deploy and support the Khan, the role of attack bikes and scout bikes, the role of other units that we probably have left over from 7th (scouts in LSStorms, Librarians on bikes), long ranged support, mechanized tactics, and so forth. I haven't even made a White Scars list yet, so I have only theory to offer. Who has concrete experience or strong opinions to share?

While. I'm so glad I never bought into that whole Free Transports phase for WS lists I do have a mostly Biker army, with added Flyers, Centurions, and Thunder fire Cannons. It was originally going to be a Iron Hands successor chapter but I found WS tactics and more importantly, Skilled Rider for no dangerous terrain checks much more helpful.

Now I'm kinda sad my Shooty army isn't quite supported by this CT. I can still use them as a grab and hold type move to tie down units from shooting with CC forcing a fall back, or allowing a hit and run to shoot with another unit. But UM seem a little better fit for that.

I'm sure there's a WS command squad build out there, and I've already had good success with a Captain and Thunder Hammer already, a hit and run guy would have saved me from 3 turns locked with Sammael.

It seems like the way to play will be to get first turn charges with move > advance > assault and hope to lock as many enemy units in combat as possible. The issues with that are going to be vs armies with bubblewrap and armies that can take a charge and either fight back well or fall back and still shoot (harlequins, ultramarines, fly armies etc). I'm not really sure what you do vs these armies other than just hope you can grind them down unless a large portion of the list isn't taking advantage of the CT and is just shooting.

jcd386 wrote:
It seems like the way to play will be to get first turn charges with move > advance > assault and hope to lock as many enemy units in combat as possible. The issues with that are going to be vs armies with bubblewrap and armies that can take a charge and either fight back well or fall back and still shoot (harlequins, ultramarines, fly armies etc). I'm not really sure what you do vs these armies other than just hope you can grind them down unless a large portion of the list isn't taking advantage of the CT and is just shooting.

Fire raptor. Two if necessary.

I might be tempted to build a WS army, depends on whether I want BA Jump Packs or not after seeing their rules.

Bikes seem the go to option only this time it encourages the charge, retreat repeat mantra of the White Scars. Should be interesting.

The big question is whether the strategem will affect more than one unit or not. AFAIK, no buff strategem affects more than a single unit currently, but that could change with the new codex releases. If it only affects one unit, then you're going to end up with a pretty piecemeal assault - one unit on turn 1 and potentially the rest on turn 2 or later.

Additionally, the CT doesn't allow shooting after falling back, so you're really wasting a lot of the standard bike squad's firepower. A Bike squad actually does more damage at range than in melee. Perhaps the CT will see the rise of more melee orientated biker command squads.

The chapter tactic actually adds a lot to any Infantry with the Fly keyword...

Asura Varuna wrote:
The big question is whether the strategem will affect more than one unit or not. AFAIK, no buff strategem affects more than a single unit currently, but that could change with the new codex releases. If it only affects one unit, then you're going to end up with a pretty piecemeal assault - one unit on turn 1 and potentially the rest on turn 2 or later.

Additionally, the CT doesn't allow shooting after falling back, so you're really wasting a lot of the standard bike squad's firepower. A Bike squad actually does more damage at range than in melee. Perhaps the CT will see the rise of more melee orientated biker command squads.

The match play rules state that only one of a specific strategem may be used per phase. It'll be up to the specific strategem to override that rule, I imagine.

So as far as WS charging in and out, I dunno man. That seems fine as a bully unit but C: SM really just don't seem that good in combat against dedicated assault units. The twin boltguns are going to be critical for softening targets up before the charge. Which to be fair makes alot of sense. Ten bikers are gaking out 40 shots at 12''.

If the strategem can only be used once a turn, I'd prioritize it on a melta squad with P. Fist sargeant. Move, advance into melta range, then charge and finish off whatever it is you're shooting at. With the strategem and turbo-boost melta-bikes have a 34'' threat range. Not too bad.

The newest leaks show it and all the other strategems like it only effect one unit...

jcd386 wrote:
The newest leaks show it and all the other strategems like it only effect one unit...

That'll be an argument for larger units, I think. Maybe one big bike squad to go looking for fights and a couple smaller ones for more surgical special weapons responses.

Yeah, but the options there are a 5 man melee oriented vet bike unit, or an 8 man plus attack bike normal bike squad...neither of which i love.

jcd386 wrote:
Yeah, but the options there are a 5 man melee oriented vet bike unit, or an 8 man plus attack bike normal bike squad...neither of which i love.

I think I feel okay about the melee-optimized veteran biker unit... between their speed and their CT ability to fall back and charge, I feel like I can keep them occupied with what they're good at.

Korrova wrote:
The chapter tactic actually adds a lot to any Infantry with the Fly keyword...

This, I was thinking WS Vangaurd Vets are better then BA ones.

i've been spending all of my time in 8th playing orks but with the new dex days away i'm starting to list build for my scars and I still don't really understand the new tactics.

It seems like the bikes will be better at focusing on shooting and trying to mop up weakened squads with assaults so has anyone had any decent list ideas for maximising the new benefits?

 Nithaniel wrote:
i've been spending all of my time in 8th playing orks but with the new dex days away i'm starting to list build for my scars and I still don't really understand the new tactics.

It seems like the bikes will be better at focusing on shooting and trying to mop up weakened squads with assaults so has anyone had any decent list ideas for maximising the new benefits?

Obviously Melee stuff is going to work best with the +2 Advance and Fall Back/Charge so always going first.

I think Assault Weapons are worth taking since they'll get an extra 2+D6 inches and still fire. I know my Skorcha Deff Dreads don't mind advancing. Not sure on WS Assault Weapons but worth a look over.

hmm flamer bikes might be a good thing with new hit and run and a psyker with veil of time.

So I'm struggling with my first review of the Codex.

No Khan on a Bike.
No Chaplain on a Bike.

No Vet Squadrons on a Bike.

...all things that were in the Index for White Scars.

WolfHound wrote:
So I'm struggling with my first review of the Codex.

No Khan on a Bike.
No Chaplain on a Bike.

No Vet Squadrons on a Bike.

...all things that were in the Index for White Scars.

I was torn between Mantis Warriors, White Scars and Flesh Tearers. Seems like Flesh Tearers has been decided for me. Mantis Warriors was a no go after realising I don't want to paint green and yellow again (main army is Bad Moons) and White Scars are just so bland and unfluffy with this Codex. Hopefully they will release the characters on Bikes.

You can just use the Index entries.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
You can just use the Index entries.

If that's the case then I need to think a bit more.

I'm probably going to go with a Primaris army just because I may get a chance to split a Dark Imperium Box with someone who just wants the Chaos stuff and having a 100% Primaris army would be cool.

Would be awesome if GW end up releasing Primaris characters on Bikes.

The Codex FAQ said that if the unit (or wargear) didn't make it into the Codex, you can use the unit as outlined in the Index. You must use the most current points and rules available (regardless of which document they come from), and they still benefit from Chapter Tactics, Stratagems and other rules as outlined in the Codex.

So if a unit/configuration made it into the Codex, use that information. If it was only in the Index, you can still use it, but it has to use the most current points available.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
The Codex FAQ said that if the unit (or wargear) didn't make it into the Codex, you can use the unit as outlined in the Index. You must use the most current points and rules available (regardless of which document they come from), and they still benefit from Chapter Tactics, Stratagems and other rules as outlined in the Codex.

So if a unit/configuration made it into the Codex, use that information. If it was only in the Index, you can still use it, but it has to use the most current points available.

Could you provide a link please? I'm looking at the 40K FAQ site and not seeing that. I'm not seeing an FAQ for the Codex at all.

WolfHound wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
The Codex FAQ said that if the unit (or wargear) didn't make it into the Codex, you can use the unit as outlined in the Index. You must use the most current points and rules available (regardless of which document they come from), and they still benefit from Chapter Tactics, Stratagems and other rules as outlined in the Codex.

So if a unit/configuration made it into the Codex, use that information. If it was only in the Index, you can still use it, but it has to use the most current points available.

Could you provide a link please? I'm looking at the 40K FAQ site and not seeing that. I'm not seeing an FAQ for the Codex at all.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

I'm looking at the staples that need to be in a list, and the following units/load-outs/purposes seem like they should be fairly strong with the WS chapter tactics:

1. 8 man bike unit (no attack bike) with 2 flamers and a combi-flamer/power sword. Swap everyone's pistols for chainswords

Thoughts: Keep the unit relatively cheap and use the "Born in the Saddle" stratagem early on to multi-charge as many things as possible to reduce the amount of fire coming in the next turn. I like flamers as they auto hit so you should be doing 3d6 plus all of the twin-bolter shots (32 shots if within rapid fire of your target). That's roughly 40+ str 4 shots before you charge. If there is a screen, that should thin some infantry out and maybe create a hole big enough to charge the juicy insides. Maybe consider taking two of these units in case you don't go first and one gets shot off the board first turn.

2. Captain with Jump pack with relic blade and a special weapon of some sort (maybe a meltagun?)

Thoughts: Deep strike this bad boy real close to the biker unit to give some rerolls of 1 when rolling to hit. If you have a fair amount of CP's, maybe use the Chapter Master Stratagem upgrade and get rerolls to hit with everything for your bikes that will be up close and personal. This includes hits in combat too! Try to make the charge in with the Captain but even if you don't the bikes should definitely be the closest unit to the enemy, so they will have a hard time targeting your captain unless they can remove all of the bikes. Then, when it's time to leave combat with your captain, jump out, shoot a meltagun and then charge something else. This guy is flexible.

3. Stormraven with hurricane bolters, assault cannon and twin Multimelta carrying terminators (Maybe Assault Terminators?)

Thoughts: Play aggressively with the Stormraven and get him within 6" of that Captain/chapter master for rerolls to hit. Early in the game I'm thinking a seemingly intense amount of pressure will force people to think outside their comfort zone or have to modify their plan. Then, when turn 2 comes around, you drop the termies and actually add some punch to the assault that your bikes are hopefully continuously keeping up. I would imagine that the first bike unit is dead within the first turn, so a second big bike unit would be good to keep up the pressure of engaging other targets.


Definitely interested in what other kinds of SPECIFIC units you guys are thinking of.

Weirdly i think the best bike unit for White scars isn't in the codex anymore...Company Veterans on bikes. I would probably give them storm shields and combi-weapons or storm bolters for max damage. Of course you can still take the unit with the index rules.

5 vet bikers have 11 attacks on the charge, which is more than the 10 the 8 bikes get.You could also throw in a few power weapons instead of combi-weapons if you wanted to add some punch.

And adding combi-weapons gives the unit a lot more shooting.

Something worthwhile to note is that all Fly units will get to fall back, shoot at full BS and then charge.

Primaris Interceptors could be very interesting.

jcd386 wrote:
Weirdly i think the best bike unit for White scars isn't in the codex anymore...Company Veterans on bikes. I would probably give them storm shields and combi-weapons or storm bolters for max damage. Of course you can still take the unit with the index rules.

5 vet bikers have 11 attacks on the charge, which is more than the 10 the 8 bikes get.You could also throw in a few power weapons instead of combi-weapons if you wanted to add some punch.

And adding combi-weapons gives the unit a lot more shooting.

Do you think this unit will be killy enough? I'm worried that once you lose one or two, the staying power/killing power is just not reliable.

I was also considering a unit of three Landspeeders. Keep them cheap, Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer. Move 20" on turn one, shoot then charge a shoot unit, preferably one without fly. Melee isn't impressive at 6x st4 attacks, but keeping some of their guns quiet while you fall back, shoot, charge could be solid. It would be another turn one charge that shouldn't require CP, should disrupt the enemy plan, and should provide good harassment.

I think these are my main curiosities in terms of list-building:

special weapon bike squads: too pricey for plasma? flamers optimal? melta? all those grav bikers we all built?
veteran bike squads: dedicated melee or add a ranged investment? mix of chainswords and power weapons? storm shields?
characters on bikes: who do they ride with, and to what purpose? librarian for mobile smite? chaplain buffing vets? where does khan fit?
assault squads or vanguard vets to capitalize on fly + chapter tactics?
other potentially useful units in larger games: scout snipers? attack bikes? land speeders?

Who is getting their White Scars on the table? Any 8th ed. experience to report? Mainly curious as to how bikes are functioning in their various configurations. Also, preferred detachments and mission-specific strengths & weaknesses.